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WWE RAW 29/08


Ron Simmons

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Could this lead to C.M. Punk vs HHH vs Nash in a triple threat match ?

Probably, possibly, hopefully. Never thought of that. And it gets Punk where Triple H and Nash probably want him. They could do him over in the "interest of competition" since it would be an actual match. And it would also put off Triple H's heel turn, a Punk vs HHH singles match and Nash wouldnt have to do as much. Good thinking.

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Meanwhile, the Hall/Eddy thing was totally different, and more based around the booking than the people. They weren't pushing Hall as trying to get past his vices. They were pushing his vices, and actually mocking him for them. Eddy got pushed as someone who had beaten his vices (unless I'm missing your specific reference).

 

You are missing it by a fair bit. I'm referring to WCW 1999 and the opinion online at the time when people were saying that an addict Scott Hall shouldn't be near TV, yet Eddy who had a giant car crash and was lucky to survive while fucked up , came back to WCW fucked up (not pushing him as beating his vices. Not even referring to it.) and people were saying he was "brave" and deserved a push making light out of it. Typical IWC favourites syndrome.

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Its definitely a bad thing. Tweeners never do anything in the long run.

 

It's not the long run yet. If they don't go anywhere with it, it'll be a clusterfuck. I've actually got a little faith in this one that it's going somewhere. It's being pushed as something of a mystery as to who was behind Nash attacking Punk. Punk thinks it's HHH, and is trying to goad him into admitting it. If that's all the story is, yeah, it sucks.

 

If this is just the opening chapter, and they're building up to something either at the Rumble or at Mania...I'm hooked right now.

 

 

If he comes across as unlikable, it leads to audience confusion. Its definitely confuses me. One minute he's "The Voice of the Voiceless" and trying to be the every man and all that and the next he's slagging off a man's wife. And not just any man. A man who people like and respect. People can relate to someone getting their wife slagged off. It if was some bloke from Atlanta with a Magnum TA shirt on watching Raw, he's going to want to see Triple H knock Punk out for slagging his wife.

 

 

Good. That's a good thing. I want to see them fight (although I'd rather they held off). People want to see them fight. How is this not a good thing? They don't need a clear favourite at the moment. They can hold off on that, and just concentrate on 'these two people fucking hate each other'.

 

So I have no idea what he is at the minute. I knew what he was pre-MITB. He was a heel about to take off as a babyface. Now he's a babyface who isnt endearing in the slightest, and worse still is trying to match wits with an established star that the fans actually buy into.

 

See, I just see it right now as 'he's someone who hates HHH and who is hated by HHH.'

 

Anyway, why is it only Punk that's the problem? HHH isn't in a clearly defined role yet either, since he's a major suspect in the 'who screwed Punk' storyline.

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Probably, possibly, hopefully. Never thought of that. And it gets Punk where Triple H and Nash probably want him. They could do him over in the "interest of competition" since it would be an actual match. And it would also put off Triple H's heel turn, a Punk vs HHH singles match and Nash wouldnt have to do as much. Good thinking.

 

It makes perfect sense after last night but we all know how impossible it is, most of the time to second guess WWE booking.

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Glad I'm not the only one that found Punk's performance in that opening segment to be completely fucking embarrassing. Even The Miz quite rightly ripped him for it later in the show, calling him 'worse than Cena'. He was right. I actually wanted Triple H to flatten the smug prick which I highly doubt is the desired effect, or is it?! Maybe I just don't 'get' Punk, but he's gone from being the hottest thing in years to an irritating twat in the space of a few weeks. I think perhaps I've just gone off him a little since Nash got involved, because I just can't get behind Punk in a feud with the coolest man in the business.

 

Speaking of which, the return of the nWo music for Big Sexy definitely brought a big smile to my face. 2 sweeeet! Nash looked and sounded better out there this week.

 

The crowd were hot for Orton vs Ziggler- it was a great match with a nice finish. One thing I noticed was that Michael Cole was actually pretty good on commentary throughout this match, because he wasn't burying anyone out there. He's much better without the OTT heel gimmick.

 

I loved Mark Henry telling Cena that he would be joining his 'Hall of Pain'. That was a great line. Henry really is a monster right now.

 

Sheamus is getting really good reactions as a face. I'm not surprised, because I think he has a very likeable personality. He shows a lot of fire.

 

New Triple H film looks wank. 'Select Theatres'. lol.

 

I'll be upset if Mistico doesn't return to the Sin Cara gimmick. Seems WWE have a tough decision to make soon. If Mistico isn't back under the mask by the time they tour Mexico then you can expect him to be Future Endeavoured.

 

AirBoom is a rubbish name. They do make a good team though. Matching colour scheme and a single entrance next week though please, otherwise you're not a proper tag team. Where do Otunga and McGillicutty go from here? A feud with Lawler? Nobody will benefit from that.

 

Fun main event. Love the physicality between Sheamus and Henry.

 

Not sure what to make of the twist at the end of the show. Part of me thinks that Nash vs Punk may still happen, otherwise I don't understand where they are going with this angle. I'll wait and see what comes out of tonight's 'Super SmackDown' before speculating any further. It's confusing, but I'm still intrigued, so they are achieving in one sense.

 

It was strange to have a show without Del Rio. Did they even give an on-air explanation for him not being there? I didn't catch it if they did. It must be confusing for casual viewers when stuff like that happens. Not very productive from WWE's perspective.

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You are missing it by a fair bit. I'm referring to WCW 1999 and the opinion online at the time when people were saying that an addict Scott Hall shouldn't be near TV, yet Eddy who had a giant car crash and was lucky to survive while fucked up , came back to WCW fucked up (not pushing him as beating his vices. Not even referring to it.) and people were saying he was "brave" and deserved a push making light out of it. Typical IWC favourites syndrome.

 

Ah, sorry - thought you were referring to the Lesnar storyline where Eddy talked about his demons. You did say WCW, so that was my bad. I didn't remember them addressing his drug addiction at the time, whereas they very clearly referred to Hall's addictions.

 

The only other difference is that it was seen as different because it was as the result of a crash - similar thing with Brian Pillman. Look at Jeff Hardy for the reaction to even a fan favourite just being an addict.

 

I do agree there's an element of double standard as well, but I don't think it's just that. There was also disgust when Hawk's problems were highlighted by WWE, and personally I found the way they used it with Jake Roberts pretty disgusting as well.

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How is this not a good thing?

Because he's in the wrong and Triple H is in the right. That isnt a babyface vs babyface dynamic. Especially if Triple H is going to turn eventually. If Triple H belts Punk with a hammer, then fair play. He deserved it. CM Punk isnt in the same class as Triple H as far as perception goes, so why would they even think about giving him even more road blocks to over come? Its fine if your doing that to a heel, but if you put Triple H in a position where he's going to have to destroy CM Punk for slagging his wife off, its ridiculous. I can see what they are trying to do. They are trying to do the Austin vs Vince thing. But unlike Vince, HHH has done nothing wrong, and is loved by the audience. People werent paying 20 quid to buy a Vince McMahon t-shirt or spent the last 15 years telling everyone to "Suck It".

 

Anyway, why is it only Punk that's the problem? HHH isn't in a clearly defined role yet either, since he's a major suspect in the 'who screwed Punk' storyline.

Triple H is the boss. Triple H's role is defined more than anyone else on the show. He's a babyface authority figure. Nash and Punk think he's sent the text, which by the laws of wrestling bullshit probably means we'll find out he hasnt, then find out he has. If I watch Raw, I see a man who is trying to keep the peace for the sake of his company. A man who gets his bitch card played to him by someone who he clearly doesnt like but counts to 10 and lets it go just so the company doesnt suffer. In the eyes of your decent average bloke, Triple H has been calm as a coma. Its going to get to the point where people are going to be begging for Triple H to knock his head off with his hammer A) Because we want to see the "old" Triple H (a character far more over than anyone on the roster judging by the reactions around WrestleMania time) and B) because the "new" Stone Cold who gets more mic time than anyone in the business is coming across like an unlikable little prick who Joe Public cant relate to.

 

It makes perfect sense after last night but we all know how impossible it is, most of the time to second guess WWE booking.

Maybe Nash can come out tonight and say "no, fuck that. You want him but I want him as well". So Triple H makes it a three way.

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The problem is Triple H left that opening segment as the embattled authority figure, yes pissed off with Punk, but also pissed with Nash and just looking to mediate the friction between the two. The subsequent attack by Nash on Punk furthered that feud even more, and so the end just seemed massively like a square peg in a round hole. It just didn't seem fitting with the current slant on Triple H's character. So, if Nash/Punk doesn't happen (which i'm still not sure about, as that still seems to be the immediate feud) then i'm happy to believe the story that says HHH, or someone, called it during the show. Anything else doesn't make much sense.

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The problem is Triple H left that opening segment as the embattled authority figure, yes pissed off with Punk, but also pissed with Nash and just looking to mediate the friction between the two. The subsequent attack by Nash on Punk furthered that feud even more, and so the end just seemed massively like a square peg in a round hole. It just didn't seem fitting with the current slant on Triple H's character. So, if Nash/Punk doesn't happen (which i'm still not sure about, as that still seems to be the immediate feud) then i'm happy to believe the story that says HHH, or someone, called it during the show. Anything else doesn't make much sense.

I just listened to it again (I have the flu, so I'm all over the place), Meltzer speculated that Triple H or Vince may have called an audible during the show. As you say, it made no sense to have the heel beat on the babyface if a match isn't going to happen.

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Because he's in the wrong and Triple H is in the right. That isnt a babyface vs babyface dynamic. Especially if Triple H is going to turn eventually. If Triple H belts Punk with a hammer, then fair play. He deserved it. CM Punk isnt in the same class as Triple H as far as perception goes, so why would they even think about giving him even more road blocks to over come? Its fine if your doing that to a heel, but if you put Triple H in a position where he's going to have to destroy CM Punk for slagging his wife off, its ridiculous. I can see what they are trying to do. They are trying to do the Austin vs Vince thing. But unlike Vince, HHH has done nothing wrong, and is loved by the audience. People werent paying 20 quid to buy a Vince McMahon t-shirt or spent the last 15 years telling everyone to "Suck It".

 

And I think they'll end up there eventually. At the moment, the key thing for me is that - as was pointed out - some people want to see Triple H smack CM Punk. However they get there, they want to see the reaction.

 

I'm not saying they should keep doing exactly this or anything like it. But I think it's a step on the way, and I don't think it was a mis-step.

 

Personally, I'm all over mixed reactions. I don't want CM Punk as the big babyface - I don't think he'll be that. I think he's the guy that naturally creates conflict with anyone he's around. And I don't see that as a bad thing, as long as people want to see the fights. And right now, as was pointed out, people want to see the fight. It's not a bad thing.

 

 

Triple H is the boss. Triple H's role is defined more than anyone else on the show. He's a babyface authority figure. Nash and Punk think he's sent the text, which by the laws of wrestling bullshit probably means we'll find out he hasnt, then find out he has. If I watch Raw, I see a man who is trying to keep the peace for the sake of his company. A man who gets his bitch card played to him by someone who he clearly doesnt like but counts to 10 and lets it go just so the company doesnt suffer. In the eyes of your decent average bloke, Triple H has been calm as a coma. Its going to get to the point where people are going to be begging for Triple H to knock his head off with his hammer A) Because we want to see the "old" Triple H (a character far more over than anyone on the roster judging by the reactions around WrestleMania time) and B) because the "new" Stone Cold who gets more mic time than anyone in the business is coming across like an unlikable little prick who Joe Public cant relate to.

 

I don't think Punk as a tweener is a bad thing. If Punk/Austin ever happens, it's unlikely to be with Austin as a heel. Punk's in a position where he can maintain a strong fanbase and feud with anyone. It's not something WWE do often, and it's a good thing.

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Because he's in the wrong and Triple H is in the right. That isnt a babyface vs babyface dynamic. Especially if Triple H is going to turn eventually. If Triple H belts Punk with a hammer, then fair play. He deserved it. CM Punk isnt in the same class as Triple H as far as perception goes, so why would they even think about giving him even more road blocks to over come? Its fine if your doing that to a heel, but if you put Triple H in a position where he's going to have to destroy CM Punk for slagging his wife off, its ridiculous. I can see what they are trying to do. They are trying to do the Austin vs Vince thing. But unlike Vince, HHH has done nothing wrong, and is loved by the audience. People werent paying 20 quid to buy a Vince McMahon t-shirt or spent the last 15 years telling everyone to "Suck It".

 

You know, something that crossed my mind last night is that maybe we're being led down the garden path, and we'll eventually be double bluffed.

 

Punk has so explicitly stated, as fact, that Triple H text Nash that revealing that to be the case would perhaps be anticlimactic; what if Nash, who has Laurinitis' ear, feined injury to the board so they were going to can the match, however Nash pointed out their corporate obligations and that Triple H has just as much beef with Punk as he does and he could easily take Big Sexy's spot. Then, Nash just steamroll's Triple H and actually does take the position as Punk's bodyguard and they go with face HHH and heel Punk w/ Big Sexy.

 

I'm not saying it's great, or even good, but i'm increasingly convinced they're not going to book a story that Punk is already spelling out in the short term.

 

Nash could be sold as a mercenary, dragging Steph/Laurinitis out of the woodwork (pissed that they brought him in to 'stick' Punk but then he runs off with him) and Triple H could be pushed and pulled so many ways (pissed off by the upstart, betrayed by his friend and undermined by his wife/colleagues) that he flips, goes 'sledgehammer-wielding-maniac' and we get HHH/Punk the final chapter.

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As said, if the rumours about Nash are true, they wouldnt have had him come out and say hes signed a contract, ie hes sticking around. If it is in part true the only thing I can see happening is Nash turning at NOC and aligning with Punk in some form, which would be stupid anyway.

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I can see happening is Nash turning at NOC and aligning with Punk in some form, which would be stupid anyway.

 

Punk being Nash's lackey? I could go for that. Have Nash as the proud, muscular, charismatic, handsome top heel, and have Punk as the Robin to his Batman.

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