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big mickey

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Why does that excuse it? "Poor family = allowed to commit crime" is no less unhelpful to solving the problem than the "send them all back to Jamaica" mindset. It's that sort of softly-softly nonsense that makes them feel so untouchable when out on the rob and gets them so shocked and angry when some actual policing is done.

 

I'm not making excuses for anyone. I'm pointing out that YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT CRIME IF FROM A POOR BACKGROUND. Therefore we need to look at the reasons behind this and try to improve conditions for people to decrease crime rather than pointing a finger at people and calling them scum therefore creating a SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY i.e. they call me scum so I must be scum and act like scum.

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Yeah so all the people that are brought up in the same situations that make a good and honest life for themselves are probably the exception that proves your rule then?

 

MORE LIKELY, not destined to do so! Of course many have what you would deem a 'good' life - but not as many as from the middle classes for example.

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You have insulted me, made false accusations so the least you can do is answer my points.

 

You use poverty as an excuse for people to have no respect for human life. How would you make Tottenham safe for the thousands of law abiding people in the short to medium term? That would be a start.

 

There's no short-term solution for it. Hence why all these heavy-handed approaches will always fail in the long term. You have to have respect in the community in order for the youngsters to respect themselves and others. This doesn't come from a heavier handed police service locking every one up left, right and centre. It comes from community groups, youth services and in Tottenham's case, religious organisations.

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I'm not making excuses for anyone.

Well someone's hijacked the rest of your post then.

 

I'm pointing out that YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT CRIME IF FROM A POOR BACKGROUND. Therefore we need to look at the reasons behind this and try to improve conditions for people to decrease crime rather than pointing a finger at people and calling them scum therefore creating a SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY i.e. they call me scum so I must be scum and act like scum.

"They only act like scum because people call them scum" certainly sounds very much like you're making excuses for someone. Besides, tiger_rick's post already exposed that chicken-and-egg fallacy pages ago.

 

How do "we" improve conditions in an effective manner? And once we've sorted out the how and set upon that course, how are the police/people supposed to react to criminals untill destination is reached?

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I could say the same for people, like you, who support racist organisations such as the EDL. But I'm not so short-sighted.

 

Oh I see so when we take to the streets we're evil racist scumbags intent on causing trouble, but this lot were just poor products of their environment who are just misunderstood

 

Behave sonny

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Oh I see so when we take to the streets we're evil racist scumbags intent on causing trouble, but this lot were just poor products of their environment who are just misunderstood

 

Behave sonny

 

I didn't say that did I? You have reasons for behaving in your racist, hateful manner as well. Would be great if we could sort out that problem too, wouldn't it?

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"They only act like scum because people call them scum"

You seem to have added the word "only" in order to completely misrepresent what Whiskey said. You're either stupid or dishonest.

 

Besides, tiger_rick's post already exposed that chicken-and-egg fallacy pages ago.

Ahh. Stupid it is. Seriously, please explain how he did this.

 

Why are you people only capable thinking in absolutes? And therefore represent everyone else's view as absolutes.

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You seem to have added the word "only" in order to completely misrepresent what Whiskey said.

Possibly, although his post that gave only that reason for them acting like scum made that very easy to do.

 

Ahh. Stupid it is. Seriously, please explain how he did this.

Read back, I think you were the mongol he tripped up with it in the first place. Why is "they only act like scum because people call them scum" more valid than "people only call them scum because they act like scum"?

 

Why are you people only capable thinking in absolutes? And therefore represent everyone else's view as absolutes.

"You people"? Not the best term to use when you're so determined to do your bleeding heart slacktivist routine. Then again, White Knighting for looters who corrupted a peaceful protest and turned it into a destructive free-for-all is a bit of a new low anyway.

 

You're representing your own view as an absolute, as is Whiskey. Until you make a post that even slightly suggests these people are responsible for their own actions, you're firmly in the "it's everyone else's fault they're like that" camp, because that's been the tone and implication of all of your posts thus far.

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Oh I see so when we take to the streets we're evil racist scumbags intent on causing trouble, but this lot were just poor products of their environment who are just misunderstood

 

Behave sonny

Do you not understand how banging on about "no surrender" and organising marches (which are, letr's face it, a show of strength) could makes these situations worse?

 

 

To try and sum up Spurs 4 life's points, am I right in saying that you, as person from those areas, don't give a fuck why the scum are scum and actuall just don't want scum around?

 

Treating the cause is always the first hope. It stops the problem. But I think what spurs and pitcos and others are trying to say is that after a point where you haven't treated the cause for long enough, the disease becomes self sustaining and needs to be eliminated before you can start going about doing so. In which case, honestly I can totally see his point.It's a vicious cycle that just gets worse, and sometimes the heavy hand of the law needs to be...well, heavy handed to halt the tide. It ain't pretty, and we can all sit and tut and complain, but sometimes it needs to happen to be able to start again.

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