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RIOT!


big mickey

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Oh ok i knew that comment would cause trouble.

 

Are you suggesting that we allow Jamacian yardie gangsters who illegally stay in this country should be allowed to stay? I got that opinion from one of our shops which was full of gangs mugging people, using it to deal drugs, robbing the shop and generally being scum. The police waited and waited and waited whilst gaining evidence. When they finally had success the first thing they did was deport the ring leader who was here illegally.

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How do you know they're kids?

How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

No community they're just in a gang though.

 

How do you know they're kids?

- I meant young teens 13-18 age group, I know due to the nature of my work.

 

How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

- Because they've told me to my face, they have rejected numerous Youth Offending Team and Council partnership programmes that are given to them in an effort to get them on the straight and narrow or they break them after a few days to go back chilling out with their mates because they 'can't be arsed' unless it's a job making games for Sony or getting an apprenticeship that pays

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I'm glad Bobbins has come here to talk some sense, started to think I was on my own there. And he's right in saying that I do have direct experience of working with inner city youth who were involved in persistent criminality whilst I was a CSO. And in doing so, by the way, I bet I was far more involved in community relations than anyone on here giving their two cents on these 'evil youths'. Part of the reason I left that job is because I didn't want to be a part of the recurring cycle of the criminal justice system which often has no affect whatsoever on preventing re-offending. They need education and access to better opportunities and hope of a better life. Not a constant cycle of crime and prison.

 

The thing is, and what some of you are too short-sighted to understand, is that in no way do I condone violence or harm to people and property. What I am trying to get at is that there are complex reasons as to why people act like this. If you're so ignorant to think 'they're just scum', 'shit breeds shit' (what an awful saying though, to refer to your fellow human as shit.) then there's probably not much I can say to change your minds. But your alienation of the people who cause this crime will do nothing to prevent in happening again as it is their social exclusion that causes it in the first place.

 

Also spurs4life, as far as your solutions of 'where to put them', who exactly is staffing and paying for these many young offenders institutions and prisons? Especially at a time of cuts to public services where even a Conservative justice minister is talking of restorative justice (i.e. community-based) rather than prison. Who's going to manage all of your house arrests? Under your ideas we'd have quite a few kids locked up in their houses. How do you think that's going to go? Also 'send them back to their home country'? Do you believe that a lot of these kids weren't actually born here? Many of them, like yourself, will have been born in Tottenham with families who have been here for two or three generations.

 

There is a massive gap between the have and the have nots in this country, it is one that keeps growing - and is one of the main reasons why we have this type of criminality. Your dismissal of people as simply 'scum' or 'shit', purely based on the fact that they come from poor families, in a deprived area, with poor education and no employment opportunities is frankly disgusting. You, with your narrow minds and hateful, discriminatory attitudes are as much of the problem is anything else. When you say that this country is going to shit, take a look in the mirror before blaming everyone else.

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You knew that comment would cause trouble, because of how you said it - when you actually qualify it like that, of course a criminal non-citizen should be repatriated. I believe in immigration as a right, but I also believe that is a right you lose when you commit a crime, just as a serious crime costs you the right to freedom.

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Also, just for your attention:

 

Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.

 

The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports:

 

 

The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers.

 

It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died.

 

The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.

 

These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

 

The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police.

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Some (and I mean quite a lot) have been turned away when applying for jobs and feel they've got in so much trouble nobody will give them a chance, which to a certain degree can be true.

:rolleyes:

 

Yes that is true but if most bothered working with the specialist teams that are there to help them find a job, get apprenticeships when they are discharged etc then it'd be a different story, the sad thing is most give up after a few days because they can't hack the sudden change to their lifestyle ie: working 8 hrs 5 days a week and the temptation to do what their mates are doing (ie: f**k all) proves too much for them.

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How do you know they can't be bothered to get a job?

- Because they've told me to my face, they have rejected numerous Youth Offending Team and Council partnership programmes that are given to them in an effort to get them on the straight and narrow or they break them after a few days to go back chilling out with their mates because they 'can't be arsed' unless it's a job making games for Sony or getting an apprenticeship that pays

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I'm glad Bobbins has come here to talk some sense, started to think I was on my own there. And he's right in saying that I do have direct experience of working with inner city youth who were involved in persistent criminality whilst I was a CSO. And in doing so, by the way, I bet I was far more involved in community relations than anyone on here giving their two cents on these 'evil youths'. Part of the reason I left that job is because I didn't want to be a part of the recurring cycle of the criminal justice system which often has no affect whatsoever on preventing re-offending. They need education and access to better opportunities and hope of a better life. Not a constant cycle of crime and prison.

 

The thing is, and what some of you are too short-sighted to understand, is that in no way do I condone violence or harm to people and property. What I am trying to get at is that there are complex reasons as to why people act like this. If you're so ignorant to think 'they're just scum', 'shit breeds shit' (what an awful saying though, to refer to your fellow human as shit.) then there's probably not much I can say to change your minds. But your alienation of the people who cause this crime will do nothing to prevent in happening again as it is their social exclusion that causes it in the first place.

 

Also spurs4life, as far as your solutions of 'where to put them', who exactly is staffing and paying for these many young offenders institutions and prisons? Especially at a time of cuts to public services where even a Conservative justice minister is talking of restorative justice (i.e. community-based) rather than prison. Who's going to manage all of your house arrests? Under your ideas we'd have quite a few kids locked up in their houses. How do you think that's going to go? Also 'send them back to their home country'? Do you believe that a lot of these kids weren't actually born here? Many of them, like yourself, will have been born in Tottenham with families who have been here for two or three generations.

 

There is a massive gap between the have and the have nots in this country, it is one that keeps growing - and is one of the main reasons why we have this type of criminality. Your dismissal of people as simply 'scum' or 'shit', purely based on the fact that they come from poor families, in a deprived area, with poor education and no employment opportunities is frankly disgusting. You, with your narrow minds and hateful, discriminatory attitudes are as much of the problem is anything else. When you say that this country is going to shit, take a look in the mirror before blaming everyone else.

 

I was talking about the countless number of ILLEGAL immigrants in Tottenham. If you have a right to be here and you break the law then you should get dealt with the way everyone else does.

 

And your theories fall down with me as i was a have not like much of the people i know and i have lived amongst the have nots. There is a difference between someone who wants to help their situation through hard work and legal means and someone who just thinks fuck it i'll deal some drugs or run some guns.

 

As for your opinions of me well touche. I lived there worked there and got myself through totally legal means. I don't harm anyone or effect anyone. I just choose to take the side of law abiding people over pricks that shoot and stab people over some spare change or a different post code.

 

 

 

You knew that comment would cause trouble, because of how you said it - when you actually qualify it like that, of course a criminal non-citizen should be repatriated. I believe in immigration as a right, but I also believe that is a right you lose when you commit a crime, just as a serious crime costs you the right to freedom.

Yeah i said it poorly amongst an overly long post whilst i was trying to watch UFC. Sorry about that.

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I'm glad Bobbins has come here to talk some sense, started to think I was on my own there. And he's right in saying that I do have direct experience of working with inner city youth who were involved in persistent criminality whilst I was a CSO. And in doing so, by the way, I bet I was far more involved in community relations than anyone on here giving their two cents on these 'evil youths'. Part of the reason I left that job is because I didn't want to be a part of the recurring cycle of the criminal justice system which often has no affect whatsoever on preventing re-offending. They need education and access to better opportunities and hope of a better life. Not a constant cycle of crime and prison.

 

Everybody has access to education and opportunities in life, its whether we make the right choices in order to progress our lives. Nobody is dragged into crime and violence because it surrounds them, you can make a choice not to be involved in that. The reaction of some to blame Police, Ministers and how these people have no choice but to be like this really does frighten me, people cant be babysat through their lives and constantly guided along the right path, we all have our own choices in life, its not everyone elses fault and problem when people consistently make the wrong choices like to carry a gun, a knife or to deal drugs and mug people or to go along and burn shops and homes down for no reason whatsoever.

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Also, just for your attention:

 

If the Police genuinely believe there is a threat of harm to the public and/or themselves from a suspect then they must take action if the suspect is not willing to co-operate or if they believe he's ready to use the firearm.

 

It doesn't matter who fired first or who didn't. Public safety and their own safety is of paramount.

 

But I am keen to see what the findings are from the IPCC

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Everybody has access to education and opportunities in life, its whether we make the right choices in order to progress our lives. Nobody is dragged into crime and violence because it surrounds them, you can make a choice not to be involved in that. The reaction of some to blame Police, Ministers and how these people have no choice but to be like this really does frighten me, people cant be babysat through their lives and constantly guided along the right path, we all have our own choices in life, its not everyone elses fault and problem when people consistently make the wrong choices like to carry a gun, a knife or to deal drugs and mug people or to go along and burn shops and homes down for no reason whatsoever.

 

So you wouldn't agree that if you were brought up in an area rife with crime and poverty, with shit schools and no jobs, you wouldn't be slightly more likely to be involved in crime? I don't know any reasonable person could not see this. And 'no reason whatsoever', there's always reasons why people do things. I know you know this deep down.

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If the Police genuinely believe there is a threat of harm to the public and/or themselves from a suspect then they must take action if the suspect is not willing to co-operate or if they believe he's ready to use the firearm.

 

It doesn't matter who fired first or who didn't. Public safety and their own safety is of paramount.

 

But I am keen to see what the findings are from the IPCC

 

Because of course the Police have never wrongly shot someone dead have they?

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So you wouldn't agree that if you were brought up in an area rife with crime and poverty, with shit schools and no jobs, you wouldn't be slightly more likely to be involved in crime? I don't know any reasonable person could not see this. And 'no reason whatsoever', there's always reasons why people do things. I know you know this deep down.

 

Well that is a true statement yes, I wont deny that, but that isnt justification for being involved in it. There is never an excuse for being involved in crime. Going by Bobbins' idea that everyone at birth is the same what is stopping somebody born in Tottenham from being as successful as somebody born in Bristol? Education is a choice, your parents educating you the difference between right and wrong is a choice of theirs and knowing thats its probably a shit idea to be involved in gangs whatsoever and carry weapons is probably a bad choice.

 

No good reason whatsoever, everyone knows deep down that if the guy was shot by another gang member there would have been no rioting on the streets last night. and the guy lying dead would only be known by a few people he knocked about with.

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Because of course the Police have never wrongly shot someone dead have they?

 

(Sighs) I never said they did, I am just stating the reasoning for the Police firing first (if it is shown they did) and if the IPCC report shows that the killing was a cock up then they deserve the criticism they'll get.

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