RepoMan Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Next year will mark the 10th anniversary of the WWE name. In May 2002, the pandas finally forced Vince to relinquish the WWF name, and we were treated to the Get The F Out campaign - something I remember quite vividly. I felt it was quite clever at the time. Â I guess I'd just like to start discussion on the Entertainment era as such. Was the name change the start of a downward turn for Vince's company? Was it actually much more than a name change, but rather a shift in the product that we've been given on a weekly basis? Â It saddens me to think that the last WWF event we got was Insurrextion 2002, as the majority of UK PPVs were utterly shit. Â Personally I think we've still had some very memorable moments, and I don't think the name change was actually the major issue around the time, but rather losing WCW and it was always going to be hard to follow WMX7 regardless of the name of the company. Â Does anyone think the name change had a huge effect on the company itself or the industry? I guess we've had a few movies, which were neither here nor there, and the link with celebrity happened far before we ever put 'entertainment' in the name. If anything, it was probably a natural move to use that word. Â The phrase 'sports entertainment' has been around for many years, so did the world associate entertainment with wrestling before WWE? I never talked to anyone who referred to it as 'sports entertainment' if I'm honest. That's a bit of a mouthful. I suppose it was useful to fall back on during the 'is it real?' discussions. Â I'd say it's probably quite hard to separate WWF from WWE in terms of distinctive periods. It's probably been a useful name for Vince to have when he wants to expand, but other than that I'd personally say there's been little to no shift/impact. I'm still watching wrestling, regardless of what some people may say, with the same storylines and in-ring action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I think the main distinguishing factor about the WWE since the name change has been the brand extension - they both happened around the same time, IIRC. I still fucking hate the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I still fucking hate the thing. I agree there. Is the roster today that much bigger than it was in the early '00s? Â The split just feels awfully limiting these days as it feels like everything's been done within the brands. I know there's maybe 20-30 guys on each roster but you end up with only half a dozen or so guys at each level facing each other all the time. Even just by bringing in 2 RAW guys for a one-off appearance this week, it made Smackdown feel a bit fresher. Â I think it would be a lot better to just do away with the split now. They can still limit each guy to one show per week (or maybe on some occasions, wrestling on one big show, cutting a promo/working an angle/working Superstars on the other). But it would at least mix it up a bit and there'd be a whole lot more in the possibilities for making entertaining, fresh TV. Â It could also improve the the b-show(s), by having big names appear on it now and again. It could be used to further angles and to build up to PPVs like Heat in '00-'01, instead of the parallel universe which it has become today. Â Anyways, the highlight for me in that time has probably been HBK's comeback at Summerslam 2002, with the lowlight being Eddie croaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fye Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I dont see how the name change had any influence on anything significant that has been done over the last 10 years, as has been said, it is much more to do with lack of competition. The direction of the WWE since then would have been exactly the same if it were called WWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Frankie Crisp Posted July 30, 2011 Awards Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2011 One thing I've noticed is that even in recent months, non-watchers still refer to it as WWF. Not just people I know who take this piss out of me for watching it, but even the likes of commentators on other Sky Sports events. 'What a crunching tackle, that wouldn't be out of place in the WWF', and the like. I'd say the name change was tantamount to the switch from Premiership to Premier League. You're watching the same thing but the tweak was deemed necessary for one reason or another. Â I must admit that I was uncertain about the brand split when it first happened as I wanted to give it a go and see how it unfolded, but it wouldn't have done any harm to scrap it after a year or two. That said, although I don't like it these days as it limits each show and derives predictability, it does keep more people in a job which is always a good thing. Â In terms of best and worst moments; the rise of Edge was great around the 2005 mark as twelve months earlier he was dull as hell. It was one of the few genuinely well thought out angles in terms of transforming someone who bored the arse off people to the becoming highlight of most shows for a while. One of the worst things, for me anyway, was the inter-promotional nonsense between Smackdown and Raw not long after the split. There was a lot of potential to make that more interesting, but they just had Rosey & Jamal and Billy & Chuck trading blows, alongside the attempts to out-do each other with the HLA stuff. That said, it did spawn the Elimination Chamber so it wasn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killjoy_Gee Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Not something many people will probably mention, but I did enjoy the Ric Flair retirement angle; where he was showing up on every show. We all knew he wasn't going to lose on free TV, but I thought it was fun to see him compete the way he was; and it was obvious everyone wanted to wrestle him before he went. Â Low point... well, Katie Vick? Doctor Hiney? Hornswoggle; McMahon's Illegitimate Son? Did it get worse than these three segments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Miz Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 They have flashes of brilliance, but they are few and far between. The most recent being the Punk angle. He may have come back a bit early for some peoples taste but it makes for a cracking build up to Summerslam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Batista face turn was one of the best things they've ever done. It was very much like the Savage turn, where you could see it coming and when it happened it more than lived up to what you imagined. Everything about it was brilliant. Its the perfect example of how to create a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted July 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 The brand split idea is good, it's just the execution that's been a bit off. In the early days it was brilliant though.  As for best and worst moments?  BEST:  - Brock Lesnar's run on top of Smackdown, complete with his heel turn on Kurt Angle.  - People like Eddie Guerrero, Christian, JBL and CM Punk getting runs at the top, something that woulda been harder for them without the split.  - Kurt Angle/Brian Kendrick's 5 minut challenge match.  - Edge and Vickie's relationship  - Edge's psycho turn and HIAC with Foley  - The ECW ONS PPVs  - The Batista face turn/Evolution storyline  - Paul Heyman as Smackdown GM  - JBL as JBL - in particular his HBK feud  - HBK's resurgence  - HBK/Flair and HBK/'Taker at Wrestlemania  - The Nexus debut  - CM Punk's recent promo  - Punk/Hardy feud  - Hulk Hogan/Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania  - The MITB cash-ins  ...There's a load of highlights for me to be honest. They only come in spurts though. ------------------ WORST:  - Katie Vick  - NXT after season one  - The run of Cena/Orton/Triple H variation feuds on RAW  - Hornswoggle (apart from his early days and the JBL feud)  - The way the brand split has ended up diluting the product.  - The PG era - not because it's PG, I like that, but because the writers seemed to translate that as 'boring'  - the numerous high profile deaths    - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Best of 2001-2011  Hogan vs Rock HBK's return to wrestling Lesnar's HIAC with Taker Eddie winning the WWE Title The two HBK vs Taker matches Flair's "retirement" CM Punk's recent run  Worst "JBL is poopy"- The phrase that put me off watching for a LONG time Bret Hart's 2010 return, just for how poorly executed it was and the "pay-off" at Mania. Actually, mostly for Mania, I really liked his Summerslam match. Eddie and Benoit's death The bastardisation of ECW, and I don't just mean diluting the "hardcore" aspect. JBL's return to active wrestling in 2008. Stephanie McMahon's absence from TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Lawrence Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Good The first 2 ECW ppv's Austin Rock WM19 The emphasis they have put on The Streak, plus The Undertaker continually defying the odds each year at most Mania's The Benoit Title win - that was probably my favourite moment. The Eddie title win was also good Brocks push The push of JBL Punks recent storyline. Rocks suprise return plus Rock in 2003 Mania 19 and 24 Money in the Bank ladder match and The Elimination Chamber match  The Bad Still no decent Tag team division. The continued push of Cena Not pulling the trigger on Chrisitain in 2005 The fuck up of Ortons push a couple of years ago. Hornswaggle and other very lame comedy segments Hunter 2003 The fuck up of Goldberg - biggest travesty ever him not winning the belt at 2003 SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I agree there. Is the roster today that much bigger than it was in the early '00s? The split just feels awfully limiting these days as it feels like everything's been done within the brands. I know there's maybe 20-30 guys on each roster but you end up with only half a dozen or so guys at each level facing each other all the time. Even just by bringing in 2 RAW guys for a one-off appearance this week, it made Smackdown feel a bit fresher.  See, I think this is a contradiction. The very fact that two Raw guys showing up on Smackdown freshened things up surely advocates how good a deal it is when done right, no? I absolutely love the brand split, but like probably a lot, I do wish they were stricter with it. 03-05 wasn't a golden era for much, but one thing they did really well was the brand extension around that time. Drafts were fucking class and inter-promotional stuff was brilliant. I know there's some dog rough shows in there, but I miss brand-only PPVs too. The Rumbles around that time had some great stuff based on inter-brand interraction.  A bit more on-topic, the WWE name change still makes me think of how shite I thought it sounded at the time. I was a bloody fool who thought they should just stick with WWFE as the full company name. I was wrong though, I think WWE is fine. The only thing I would really like is that if at some point down the line, the pandas loosen their grip a bit, and we can stop with all the blurring and editing F's out. It's not a major thing but it does get on my tits sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JohnnyChimpo Posted July 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Katie Vick thing is an odd one with me, cause I actually thought the skits where Triple H dress up as Kane in the morgue and in particular, the skit where a week later he brought the doll to the ring and interviewed it, and then beat the shit out of it were actually pretty funny. The problem I have with the angle was that it killed Kane the character until he eventually unmasked and even that was a bit dodgy. Â Kane had been out injured and had made his return in late August, and he was mega over. He had always been pretty over with the crowd, but he was REALLY over when he came back with his new attire, new mask, and looked bigger and stronger than ever. From mid/last August until October when they ran that angle, people were genuinely taking him serious as a title challenger. Then, with the Katie Vick storyline, they pretty much rewrote his entire backstory in a really shoddy fashion. He went from being this tortured soul who had lived in isolation in Paul Bearer's basement, to being a guy who was out at college parties, dating a cheerleader and even had a drivers license. It totally fucked his character. Thats my main gripe with the angle. Â It wasnt until next summer when they unmasked him that he got some credibility back, depsite the lack of consistency with his backstory that that angle provided too, and then Super Shane killed that a month or two into it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted July 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Katie Vick thing is an odd one with me, cause I actually thought the skits where Triple H dress up as Kane in the morgue and in particular, the skit where a week later he brought the doll to the ring and interviewed it, and then beat the shit out of it were actually pretty funny. The problem I have with the angle was that it killed Kane the character until he eventually unmasked and even that was a bit dodgy. Â Kane had been out injured and had made his return in late August, and he was mega over. He had always been pretty over with the crowd, but he was REALLY over when he came back with his new attire, new mask, and looked bigger and stronger than ever. From mid/last August until October when they ran that angle, people were genuinely taking him serious as a title challenger. Then, with the Katie Vick storyline, they pretty much rewrote his entire backstory in a really shoddy fashion. He went from being this tortured soul who had lived in isolation in Paul Bearer's basement, to being a guy who was out at college parties, dating a cheerleader and even had a drivers license. It totally fucked his character. Thats my main gripe with the angle. Â It wasnt until next summer when they unmasked him that he got some credibility back, depsite the lack of consistency with his backstory that that angle provided too, and then Super Shane killed that a month or two into it anyway. I would say the unmasking of Kane was the beginning of the end for his credibility. He's become nothing more than a mid to upper carder, which is a shame as he felt like a huge deal immediately after his return from injury as you say. Unmasking him gave him an initial boost, but in the long term it unfortunately made him seem less interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Good  Eric Bischoff as RAW GM  Brock Lesnar, enjoyed his feuds with Taker, Angle and Eddie Guerrero and adored the build up to Summerslam 2002 with The Rock  The Rock being a blast as a heel in 2003  JBL becoming a great character  Kurt Angle having world class matches with HBK, Edge, Beniot and Rey Mystereo  Evalution  The build between HHH/Batista going into WM 21  Edge evolving into the Rated R supertsar and being the top heel of the last decade  Chris Jericho turning heel in 2008  CM Punk feuding with Jeff Hardy  The Rock coming back  What Punk is doing right now.   The Bad  HHH in 2002/2003 before he stepped his game back up in 2004  Super Shane  RVD's WWE run being underwelming after a piping hot start  The Return of DX  Randy Orton boring me to death in recent years  Besides the Mayweather feud, I have not enjoyed anything The Big Show has done  WWE at times playing it safe instead of taking chances, recycling feuds that have been done to death like Taker vs Kane and Cena vs Orton   I have more I am sure for both good and bad, but they are the ones that come to mind straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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