raw Discussion Thread

[d-d-d-dAz]

I'm not in complete disagreement here. I'm not suggesting bringing Punk back to tv when he's so red-hot is a 100% terrible move, of course it isn't. But, what's to say they couldn't have done better business down the road if the angle was really stretched out? You say the 'shooting their load early thing is nonsense, when should they book it to capitalize on the currently hot angle if not now?' Well, didn't they have their hottest angle and potential match in Rock-Cena and decide to let it simmer for a year and do it at WrestleMania in Miami? They could very well have shot their load early there and pulled a switcheroo and had the match at this years 'Mania like many were gagging for. Instead, they're wisely doing it in Miami a year later, even though the hype and momentum from this years interaction will be long gone i'm sure they'll pick it back up again and still do huge business and a lot of that will be built up through a) little mentions and references on tv and 2) through social networking - where the majority of it is occuring.

 

A similar thing could have been done with Punk, there's no reason why Punk taking a lengthy absence should affect him coming back and doing massive business. WWE would do decent business for Summerslam without reverting back to the Punk angle. There's probably a decent % that would purchase Summerslam to see if there was a new development in the angle there anyway. If they kept up the subtle references and angles like the Miz promo in his absence as well as the social networking stuff where WWE Superstars will often make reference to things they shouldn't or can't do on TV through that medium, it would keep it in peoples minds and itching for his return. One of WCWs best angles was making Sting even bigger than he was ever before by taking him away from TV then slowly bringing him back in, not giving him any physicality or vocality for ages and it kept people guessing and gagging to see what he was going to do.

 

I think the big difference here is that this particular storyline is Punk's breakout moment, whereas The Rock is already a megastar and more people, specifically more of the casual audience, are prepared to wait for him.

 

Whilst I think comparing Punk's first promo, and subsequent weeks of knocking it out of the park, to the Austin 3:16 moment is probably hyperbole, it is a decent comparison point to say that the Austin bandwagon would probably have derailed if, after a few weeks, they'd have sidelined their burgeoning new star. Likewise, as Austin wasn't then, Punk isn't cemented yet and they are just beginning to tap into his potential. I personally think that at the time in which a megastar is being created, one of the most important aspects is momentum and like if Austin had been sidelined, I think the momentum behind CM Punk would have subsided over time. I don't, necesarily, think there is sufficient weight behind the 'cult of personality' to have carried it through two months, or whatever, without having Punk on television. It took a hefty reminder yesterday to really get the crowd going.

 

Like I say, if in Rock's position, the long layoff would have been ideal and complemented the current feud perfectly; but I think in order to keep momentum; in order to keep CM Punk alive in the mind of the casual fan and in order to transition this from a feud that tickled the belly of the internet fan to a genuine mass market sop, they had to build towards a Cena/Punk II at Summerslam.

 

That said, I concede Carbomb's points that they could have shifted the emphasis from online to TV better, but that said I don't think what we got was 'worst case scenario' but more 'great, but not ideal'.

 

I've certainly seen enough to a) not lose interest or faith in the feud and b be particularly interested in seeing next weeks Raw.

 

My summary of Raw, much like last weeks show, is that despite its flaws (of which there are a few, though i'd argue not too substantial) it had plenty of wresting and was fun, logical, at times clever, episodic television that made next weeks show feel important. Considering some of the utter toss of the last decade, i'm happy with that.

[ShortOrderCook]

Yeah, i liked Raw a whole bunch and all that too and i enjoy watching Punk and i'm not pissed off that he's back but, it feels like it could possibly be a potential creative angle or booking tactic gone to waste.

 

Yes, there's a chance he'd have lost the momentum, there's also a chance he would have gained a considerable amount. It didn't do Matt Hardy too much harm being off TV and ignored for ages and selling himself through the internet for months. It actually did him more harm coming back to TV and everyone realising he's not quite as good as thought. This could have been a better version of that.

 

It would have been a risk but a worthwhile calculated risk in my opinion. I don't think Punk would have really lost anything staying off TV for a while. This rise has almost come out of nowhere and he's created a lot of it himself (not all of it though) through running with the ball when WWE gave him the chance to run with it for a month. 2 and half months ago he was virtually insignificant. He'd have gotten over again if his star had fallen. I also don't think WWE will get that much more out of a buyrate now with a Cena - Punk headlined event as they may have done with Cena - Mysterio with an underlying potential Punk involvement intrigue.

 

Could have been an interesting, worthwhile experiment with little to lose.

 

 

....Also Austin didn't take off for months after the 3:16 promo.

[Wrasslin]

To play fantasy booker for a second:

 

I'd like to see Triple H screw over Punk for the belt at Summerslam. Say that he only rehired Punk because he didn't want someone running around claiming to be the WWE champion all over the world. (Cena can obviously protest Triple H's actions afterwards so as not to upset the status quo).

 

After beating the crap out of Punk with a sledgehammer Triple H fires him because now he's got the belt he doesn't need him anymore. This would again enable Punk to be off TV for a while whilst still not missing Summerslam.

 

Then over the course of the next couple of months Punk could make sporadic invasion style appearances (on the internet, buying a ticket for Raw, stufff like that). In this scenario it would actually make sense for Punk to keep showing up, having not left of his own accord, and wanting revenge on Triple H.

[King Pitcos]

....Also Austin didn't take off for months after the 3:16 promo.

Aye, it's funny how revisionist history says he did that promo and was an instant megastar. He didn't even get on SummerSlam that year after it. He did nowt until Bret Hart came back at Survivor Series.

[Dirty Eddie]

Aye, it's funny how revisionist history says he did that promo and was an instant megastar. He didn't even get on SummerSlam that year after it. He did nowt until Bret Hart came back at Survivor Series.

Yeah, a feud-less match with Yoko on the Free 4 All show.

 

He may as well have sodded off for a few months!

[ukfan11]

I like the Del Rio trying to cash in the MITB angle they seem to be going for, something different from the usual MITB winners.

 

I like how Punk is using his old ROH music as well, I'm still interested where their going to take it next week so it did it's job.

[JPC]

I'd like to see both John Cena and CM Punk get screwed at Summerslam. They could wrestle 30 minutes, both go down after a double clothesline, cross body or clash of heads and then Del Rio could come out and pin John Cena using his Money in the Bank contract.

 

My plan would then be to have Del Rio go from Summerslam to Wrestlemania as WWE Champion and win all of his matches clean with the arm-bar. Punk would win the Rumble and go on to take the belt from Del Rio at Wrestlemania.

 

This way they could make a star out of Del Rio and CM Punk. Cena can feud with Punk, Del Rio, The Rock and The Miz. Punk can feud with everybody as he is on the fence; Cena, Del Rio, Rey, Miz, The Rock etc. Del Rio could have PPV title matches against Cena, Punk, Rey, Kofi, Morrison and maybe even Ryder if they build him up. Survivor Series in MSG would be the perfect place.

 

Everybody wins.

[Green]

I like the Del Rio trying to cash in the MITB angle they seem to be going for, something different from the usual MITB winners.

Jack Swagger and The Miz both did it?

[BritFan]

I don't think he's being brought back too early. If you think about it; he left primarily because of Vince McMahon. He stressed how much he loves wrestling etc. Now things are being "run" by Triple H - who has obviously opened up something big to be able to bring Punk back when McMahon was unable to contain him. Now we're very likely to go into SummerSlam seeing a Champion vs. Champion ordeal with Cena/Punk and I enjoyed their match at Money In The Bank so I'm totally up for it.

 

I love the theme change, it's almost as if he's finally been given what he wanted. The crowd are going to be very open to it also. I am hoping this could be lead into a Cena heel turn so he goes into WrestleMania with The Rock hated. The fans are gagging for it, so why not.

[ukfan11]

Jack Swagger and The Miz both did it?

 

Did they? I haven't watch Raw or Smackdown for years, only watched PPVs, sometimes skipping matches.

[Statto]

Did they? I haven't watch Raw or Smackdown for years, only watched PPVs, sometimes skipping matches.

 

IIRC, Swagger did the call-off cash-in once, against Cena the night after Mania, before successfully cashing it in against Jericho right at the start of the Smackdown following.

 

Yeah, Miz did it a ton of times, against Sheamus, and possibly a couple of times against Orton before he got the job done. That briefcase was smashed to shit by the time he finally used it.

[ShortOrderCook]

Jack Swagger and The Miz both did it?

 

Indeed.

 

Although i do think how it's currently panning out that it could work to have Del Rio be that first guy not win the championship following a cash-in. Ever since not winning the World title at WrestleMania, a new level has been added to his character that seems to have been it's direction ever since. He's been touted as a potential World Champion on commentary from early on, he's claimed that following the Rumble that winning the World title at WrestleMania, simply winning the World title, winning the WWE title is his destiny. His destiny keeps becoming delayed, eluding him. He feels it's inevitable and just a matter of time before he's wearing the big title. But, the man who's always had, been born into a life that gives him everything he's ever wanted...the one thing he really wants and believes is his destiny he keeps missing and is gradually becoming more and more frustrated, angry, unstable and violent because of this.

 

His destiny is taking a cruel path in giving him/awarding him all the things that should guarantee him World/WWE Gold (Rumble win, the Champion he couldn't beat forced into retirement, losing a #1 contendership opportunity to Punk but then winning it when Punk gets suspended, MITB contract) then it being taken away to only then be given a reason to believe his destiny is just further being delayed (losing at WrestleMania in the opening match but belt becomes vacated, fails to defeat Christian in a Ladder match and is drafted, #1 contendership is ignored as Punk is reinstated and inserted back into MITB Ladder match).

[ShortOrderCook]

IIRC, Swagger did the call-off cash-in once, against Cena the night after Mania, before successfully cashing it in against Jericho right at the start of the Smackdown following.

 

Yeah, Miz did it a ton of times, against Sheamus, and possibly a couple of times against Orton before he got the job done. That briefcase was smashed to shit by the time he finally used it.

 

It was teased a couple of times with Punks second MITB too. He was about to cash in on Edge (music hitting, rushing the ring, handing over briefcase, all that jazz) before suddenly getting twatted by Umaga before Edge got to his feet.

[Baz Windham]

Indeed.

 

Although i do think how it's currently panning out that it could work to have Del Rio be that first guy not win the championship following a cash-in. Ever since not winning the World title at WrestleMania, a new level has been added to his character that seems to have been it's direction ever since. He's been touted as a potential World Champion on commentary from early on, he's claimed that following the Rumble that winning the World title at WrestleMania, simply winning the World title, winning the WWE title is his destiny. His destiny keeps becoming delayed, eluding him. He feels it's inevitable and just a matter of time before he's wearing the big title. But, the man who's always had, been born into a life that gives him everything he's ever wanted...the one thing he really wants and believes is his destiny he keeps missing and is gradually becoming more and more frustrated, angry, unstable and violent because of this.

 

His destiny is taking a cruel path in giving him/awarding him all the things that should guarantee him World/WWE Gold (Rumble win, the Champion he couldn't beat forced into retirement, losing a #1 contendership opportunity to Punk but then winning it when Punk gets suspended, MITB contract) then it being taken away to only then be given a reason to believe his destiny is just further being delayed (losing at WrestleMania in the opening match but belt becomes vacated, fails to defeat Christian in a Ladder match and is drafted, #1 contendership is ignored as Punk is reinstated and inserted back into MITB Ladder match).

 

Really interesting post, not thought of it like that, Del Rio really has had some rotten luck/things going against him hasn't he? Getting increasingly frustrated when trying to cash-in on his destiny after all that's already happened would really add something to him and is something I now hope happens. It would be refreshing as at the moment his 'destiny' promos are pretty samey. Either him snapping and finally acheiving his destiny in a violent manner or failing and then snapping would make it a great full circle story that has ran alongside his entire career so far and make all the destiny talk really worth while

[Smegma Cake]

One thing about the final segment that might not get enough praise was Punk subtly holding the WWE Championship higher than John Cena.

 

The bait and switch with JR/JoMo was a good way to tease Punk without giving and made the ending a little bit more surprising. Obviously the theme music works so much better than KSE (Which I hate BTW).