Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 21, 2011 There's a good reason why Hassan wasn't a bigger deal, and it wasn't the booking.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 21, 2011 It was the fact they didn't give him curly boots. Terrorist characters never get over without curly boots. Â Quiz: Which one of these three men isnt one route to win the WWF title? And which one doesnt have curly boots?
Killjoy_Gee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Curly boots aside, I can't help but wonder if Hassan would have been around longer if he had never been moved to Smackdown. If they still went ahead with the piano wire incident, it would have happened, live, 4 days before. There could be no backlash because of WWE utilising a terrorist angle on 7/7. That is, unless, McMahon being the genius he is chose to capitalise on the impact of 7/7 by doing a live terrorist angle the following Monday... Â Basically, if the angle had played out on Raw, would the backlash against the character have happened?
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 21, 2011 Curly boots aside, I can't help but wonder if Hassan would have been around longer if he had never been moved to Smackdown. If they still went ahead with the piano wire incident, it would have happened, live, 4 days before. There could be no backlash because of WWE utilising a terrorist angle on 7/7. That is, unless, McMahon being the genius he is chose to capitalise on the impact of 7/7 by doing a live terrorist angle the following Monday... Basically, if the angle had played out on Raw, would the backlash against the character have happened?  Yes, because it was already getting a bad enough reaction previously; it was turning off a number of viewers purely because it was an offensive gimmick. The piano-wire angle was just the icing on the cake.
Magnum Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Vince's unbridled love of the Iraq war is another reason I'm glad Linda's political career flopped. Seems mental now to think he even felt the need to create a stable of dastardly French heels purely because their leader realised what a ridiculous idea the war was.
Killjoy_Gee Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Yes, because it was already getting a bad enough reaction previously; it was turning off a number of viewers purely because it was an offensive gimmick. The piano-wire angle was just the icing on the cake. Â Very true. The problem was, whilst the gimmick started with potential, it quickly became a caricature, and very one dimensional. In the vignettes, IIRC, he was addressing very accurate truths, but any sense of that character was lost quickly upon his arrival
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 21, 2011 In many ways it was a fucked up gimmick that made no sense. Hassan would come out and say he was being abused and people were prejudice against him for being an Arab-American and celebrating his culture. The fans would then boo him for this. So we had a heel who was hated by the fans because he complained they were all ignorant racists and they hated him more and more because of this and chanted "USA" during his matches even though he was American. So by acting more heelish he was encouraging the fans to be even more racist and prejudice against him. As offensive as it was the terrorist angle was the only logical place for his character to go. A muslim so fed up of being abused by white-America that he turns to violence. Â And to top it off he was a shite wrestler too. Â A complete disaster.
ChikaraThemes Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Pirate Burchill. Mega over, and cut for no unjust reason. Also Estrada's 'MY NAAAAME ES' line he used to open promos with (isn't really a character, but it was still awesome).
Loligan Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 What do you think a consultant is? Russo was the head writer. Bischoff was a creative consultant. He did nothing more than contribute ideas that may be benefit storylines Russo came up with. That isnt involved in creative. If that is being part of creative, then Chris Jericho was a part of WWE's creative team during his feud with Shawn Michaels. Bischoff contributed ideas and worked with production and as an onscreen talent (like he does in TNA). He didnt have anything to do with the day-to-day operations of WCW, which the writers have to do. He wasnt apart of creating storylines or characters. Nothing Bischoff said had to be done by Russo, because Russo had ultimate say. Hense the butting of heads. Russo was the head of creative. Thats the power position. Bischoff had little say of what went on on TV. Thats fact. Thats why Bischoff wanted to buy the company to begin with. Well almost every part of that goes against what Bischoff put in his book So unless your saying he's lying and you know better than him Ive no idea how you would know any of that to be true,  Bischoff to Brad Siegal, "This company is more screwed up than when I left. I will not be an employee of AOL time warner. I will be an independent contractor. I'll provide many of the same services, overseeing the creative direction of the company and all that....In addition to paying me off on the old contract, you'll write me a new one"  "They took it all. I basically got everything I wanted. My contract called for me to manage and oversee the creative process. I had nothing to do with contracts, finance or anything else. I was, in effect, the executive producer again."  "By the way we were never coequals, as Vince later claimed. Vince reported to me"  "I laid out an angle that would have Russo and I feuding, with two camps of wrestlers opposing each other. I think one of the things that helped convince Vince to come back was the fact that the storyline called for him to be on television. I didnt know how badly Russo wanted to be on TV. He was already a monster in many respects, nut the new found "celebrity" really got to him. He went off at the deep end."  "Siegal told me to put the bridle on Russo and his dark tones. So I began exerting more control"  Sure doesnt sound to me like Russo had ultimate say.    How could Bischoff "fuck it up"? Russo got the sack in January for wanting to put the belt on Tank Abbott. He got rehired along with Bischoff. I dont even know what your point is? Bischoff fucked up a product that got someone fired for originally? Russo's stint in 1999 was alright (not from a ratings, house show, merchandise or PPV buys stand point to be honest), but from who was in it. After about two months, it all went to shit again with the Tank Abbot bollocks.  Russo's first run fell apart when both his main champions got injured and he booked the Tank Abbot bollocks (as you call it) on the fly. That's what got him pulled from his position. They installed Sully after that and thats when Benoit and co threw a hissy fit and went to Vince. To say the ratings didnt improve during his time in charge though is once again wrong because he did grow the viewship of Nitro during that time.  But anyway yeah...  sorry for hijacking this thread.  on topic I always thought the Raven character could have been used a lot better in the WWE. Always fancied seeing him against The Undertaker. Both dark characters and I think the matches could have been decent as well.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 21, 2011 Russo's first run fell apart when both his main champions got injured and he booked the Tank Abbot bollocks (as you call it) on the fly. That's what got him pulled from his position. They installed Sully after that and thats when Benoit and co threw a hissy fit and went to Vince. To say the ratings didnt improve during his time in charge though is once again wrong because he did grow the viewship of Nitro during that time. First off: Even if the whole roster went down with aids, thinking that the company could benefit from a bloke who'd only started training to wrestle about 4 months earlier would be a good idea is worth getting the sack for. Abbot was rotten in late 99. Â On to the business thing: the first half of 1999 WCW was doing 5's and 4's and had a slide. The second half of the year (after the initial curiosity of a new storyline team involved and the return to TV of big stars like Bill Goldberg, the Outsiders and Bret Hart), WCW ended the year doing in the 3 region. And you forget, these were three hour Nitros every week. They had a extra hour unopposed to Raw, which means the numbers rounds up higher because of the people watching the unopposed hour before switching to Raw. WCW's lowest ratings of 1999 came under Russo and Ferrera. They did a 2.6 for a three hour show during the boom period. And you call that improving the audience? WCW hadnt done a rating in the 2.0's since 1995. Not to mention Starrcade (their WrestleMania) drew lower than Halloween Havoc (Russo and Ferrera's first PPV, just to highlight the downward spiral of their regime). Starrcade of 99 was the lowest drawing Starrcade ever up until that point. Starrcade with Bret Hart vs Goldberg drew worst than Hogan vs Ed Leslie. And Leslie vs Hogan was a throw away match ill promoted because Savage was debuting and they needed some nobody for Hogan to wrestle. And Mayhem drew a 0.12. Mayhem did a record low number. They werent ever getting a 0.12 buyrate in 1993 when they couldnt get people to attend for free. I have no idea where your getting your information from. They didnt improve business. They sacked the previous regime to bring in people to improve their fortune. Not keep it at the level or kill off the PPV business. They would not have sacked Russo if he was doing a good job. They wouldnt have even sacked him if he was doing a bad job. He'd stopped booking WCW's hottest acts and alienated the WCW fanbase. Its fine if you liked it. I liked the use of the Outsiders, Bret, Goldberg, Benoit and Jarrett as well. But you cant say anything improved during that run. WCW never improved ever after 1998. The company collapsed.
King Pitcos Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Pirate Burchill. Mega over, and cut for no unjust reason. It was because he got injured, wasn't it?
Loligan Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 First off: Even if the whole roster went down with aids, thinking that the company could benefit from a bloke who'd only started training to wrestle about 4 months earlier would be a good idea is worth getting the sack for. Abbot was rotten in late 99. On to the business thing: the first half of 1999 WCW was doing 5's and 4's and had a slide. The second half of the year (after the initial curiosity of a new storyline team involved and the return to TV of big stars like Bill Goldberg, the Outsiders and Bret Hart), WCW ended the year doing in the 3 region. And you forget, these were three hour Nitros every week. They had a extra hour unopposed to Raw, which means the numbers rounds up higher because of the people watching the unopposed hour before switching to Raw. WCW's lowest ratings of 1999 came under Russo and Ferrera. They did a 2.6 for a three hour show during the boom period. And you call that improving the audience? WCW hadnt done a rating in the 2.0's since 1995. Not to mention Starrcade (their WrestleMania) drew lower than Halloween Havoc (Russo and Ferrera's first PPV, just to highlight the downward spiral of their regime). Starrcade of 99 was the lowest drawing Starrcade ever up until that point. Starrcade with Bret Hart vs Goldberg drew worst than Hogan vs Ed Leslie. And Leslie vs Hogan was a throw away match ill promoted because Savage was debuting and they needed some nobody for Hogan to wrestle. And Mayhem drew a 0.12. Mayhem did a record low number. They werent ever getting a 0.12 buyrate in 1993 when they couldnt get people to attend for free. I have no idea where your getting your information from. They didnt improve business. They sacked the previous regime to bring in people to improve their fortune. Not keep it at the level or kill off the PPV business. They would not have sacked Russo if he was doing a good job. They wouldnt have even sacked him if he was doing a bad job. He'd stopped booking WCW's hottest acts and alienated the WCW fanbase. Its fine if you liked it. I liked the use of the Outsiders, Bret, Goldberg, Benoit and Jarrett as well. But you cant say anything improved during that run. WCW never improved ever after 1998. The company collapsed.  They did actually in 1996! But come on, it was their first show ever. From the next week and pretty much for the rest of that run, he got them back in the 3.0's. Ive never claimed Russo did killer biz for wcw and was the saviour until they got rid of him. I liked his run and the ratings (only the ratings) went up a bit when he took over.  Everything else was the shits and he seemed to go a bit mental so he got his cards.  The end.
Magnum Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 To be fair, I reckon the rot set in for WCW in early '99, even if the ratings did take a while to nosedive. I don't know whether it was Bischoff, Nash, or Turner Standards & Practices to blame for that, but the 6 months or so before Russo even arrived must have gone some way to presenting the lion's share of WCW's remaining audience to Vince on a platter, because they were absolutely atrocious. The show where the first hour was basically spent with Hogan and Nash watching videos, DDP as world champion, the whole convoluted 'who's in charge?' angle with Flair, Piper and Bischoff, Rick Steiner's push, David Flair as US champion, the KISS Demon, the hummer crash that was never paid off, must have all been pretty big drains on the patience of the remaining audience. It seemed to me that whoever was in charge of WCW in '99 was creatively spent, which is why Russo's run is probably more fondly remembered than it deserves to be with a few of us.
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 22, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 22, 2011 It was because he got injured, wasn't it? Â Yeah. A shame they didn't bring him back as the pirate, though - the rationale for it (i.e. Palmer Cannon getting him to "embrace his family's roots" as part of Cannon's plan to raise the ratings for the Network) was great; also, the character was the most over he's ever been in the US, and it worked for him. Nothing he'd done before or after was much cop.
Wendell Cooley Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Mike Adamle had potential. He was just starting to get interesting when they kicked him to the curb. His gaffes provided a lot of scope - he was unpredictable and that's not something to be sniffed at. There was money to be made with that guy. Seriously.
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