sgmilne Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Bad example, there. Kelly Kelly just appeared on the list of FHM's sexiest woman and does all kinds of media appearances. Sure she cant wrestle, but she's well known to anyone with a cock and balls. Kelly Kelly probably adds more to WWE than most of the midcarders and all the tag teams. Look at Sable. She was a massive star. One of the biggest attractions of the late 90s, judging by her media appearances and the television ratings she attracted (as well as her video and Playboy issue selling huge). But she couldnt wrestle worth a shite and worse, she spoke like she had Johnny B Badd's shock stick lodged down her gob. Its all about how you look and are presented. Nobody cares enough about womens wrestling to like it if they are performing well or not. Kelly Kelly is perfect. She's a hot girl, who performs for 3 minutes and fucks off. Its now we all like our women. Â From my own perspective, I don't find her attractive, but even if she is an attraction, they could easily maintain her as one by using her outside the ring.
Loki Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 The only conceivable way a women's match could really "draw" in this era is, building on what Ian was saying, if you take a hugely marketable personality like Kelly Kelly and put her up against a monster like Awesome Kong. You push that as her being in genuine danger of being killed, and you might pick up some buys. Straight-up women's wrestling, with 2 competent female grapplers, is a nice addition to a card, but it's not business-generating.
C-Rock Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I think its obvious that WWE in a sorry state of affairs when they have to rely on bringing back stars from the past such as the Rock and Stone Cold to boost ratings. Triple H was forced to work with the ever returning Undertaker at WrestleMania just to draw a little more interest in the card. These guys arent going to be around forever and one day WWE is going to have to really think long and how hard about how they are going to move the product into the future without the help of those big stars. Guys like Bigshow and Kane and perhaps John Cena arent going to be around in 5 years time or at least not working working a full time scedule. Â I dont watch alot of WWE, I'll make sure I watch WrestleMania each year and watch the short results videos on WWE.com when I get the chance but looking at the roster of guys they have at the minute theres nobody with the star quality of a Rock or Stone Cold, all I see is cartoon charecters and clones of one another, the same formula over and over, short-rushed matches with very little to captivate you. The attitude era was filled with real 'Raw' drama and excitment and OMG whats going to happen next. Charecters who pushed boundries and the kinds fans could relate to and get behind. The weight of the WWE world rests heavy on the shoulders of John Cena at the minute and hes not good enough to carry the load but WWE are left with no choice as theres no one able to step up to share the top spot, WWE is filled with very talented mid card level wrestlers at best. WWE are taking guys like the Miz and Dolph Zigger and Jack Swagger who lower card wrestlers and then overnight thrust them into the spotlight, forcing WWE fans to accept that these guys with a little spit polish are main-eventers, it worked obviously back in the attitude era with 2 guys called Rocky Mivia and the Ringmaster but when the chance for them was given to take the ball and run with it, the boundries were much further apart i.e. Stone Cold cut they infamous King of the Ring promo and the Rock joined an all black faction which touched on colour and race something WWE couldn't do now. Â WWE's biggest problem is they have limited themselves by becoming a PG product, they have boxed themselves in and left very little room to push the boundries. WWE rightfully changed there name from World WRESTLING Entertainment, cause theres very little in the way of true Wrestling action going on. Cage Matches, Hardcore Matches, Last Man Standing matches are all watered down, WWE fans have stopped viewing cause alot of them are fans who remember the old days and refuse to settle for what WWE is producing now, a cartoon show that would be better suited for the Disney Channel. WWE sold themselves out to the die hard WWE fan the moment they signed up to become PG or whatever they are. Why did WWE make that choice? If it aint broke done fix it and WWE wasnt broke in fact it was pulling in the best ratings they ever had and the product was must-see TV. WWE is trying to appeal to a younger audience but forgets that there younger audience's have bed times and perhaps arent allowed to stay up late to watch WWE programming. Â WWE have tried to move with the times and thats something everyone and everything has to do at some point but like I said before I think the WWE has sold themselves out, WWE in the late 90's and early 2000's offered people something different, something edgy and contriversal, when Raw actually lived upto its name now WWE is failing to offer that its no longer must see TV, its losts it steam, its up a creek without a paddle, its stuck in limbo. WWE really needs to go back to the drawing board, WWE are to far gone in regards to pulling one big thing out the bag in order to boost ratings for a long period of time, they have flashes in the pan whenever they bring back the Rock or Stone Cold but thats never going to last forever, look at TNA with Hogan first couple of appearances TNA ratings went up but fans get bored, you see something or someone enough times your going to get board and switch off and thats exactly whats happening in the case of WWE but its not there fault they have to work with what they have which at the minute is very little in regards to talent which is obviously the key asspect to the WWE product. WWE is going downhill it wont happen over night and it will never die or go out of business obviously but I highly doubt we will see WWE get any better than it is now, not unless they break out the box and offer WWE fans something worth watching much like love him or hate him Eric Bischoff did with WCW and on a lesser extent Paul Heyman did with ECW. Bischoff broke down the walls and like he said once he made a massive bang and forced WWE fans to look away from them and instead look at the fresh, new and exciting WCW. WWE need to make a bang again, Bret Hart, the Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Triple H those guys arent going to be around for much longer to get that flash in the pan ratings boost. Â Drop the PG rating WWE and get out of the box and stop conforming to how you think the world wants you to be. Your a Pro Wrestling company, pro-wrestling has always been different and contriversal, don't sellout to the bright lights of Hollywood...lets see some blood! WWE is in a sorry state of affairs when a chair shot to the head during the Undertaker/Triple match at WrestleMania was all anyone could talk about after.
psyclown Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 For me, i think the main reason is the way the pecking order is. i'm a wrestling fan, not a merchandise fan. and for the last, roughly, four years Vince has shoved John Cena down our throats. Â now this isnt a Cena bash at all. i'll be honest im not a fan but this is about Vince not listening to his audience. Â not long ago and its starting to happen again now Cena would come out and the crowd would boo the shit outta him. but Vince still booked him as the main Face. and guys like Punk who were gettin cheered get put out there as massive heels. Â years ago when the big heel Austin started gettin cheered Vince listened and he made Austin the reason people tuned in. why is it so different now. i have sat watching PPV's and you have Cena gettin boo'ed like mad, but the commentary team sits there saying "What a brilliant ovation for Cena." Â Vince needs to listen to the fans. Â the other issue about the pecking order is having guys like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Drew Mcintyre and other who are exceptional wrestlers, so far down the card. Drew i dont think i've ever seen on a WWE PPV but that guy is so talented. but instead we get months of Cena and Miz. Â The WWE has some of the best talent in the world and they meander around the bottom of the card with nothing to do.
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 14, 2011 Moderators Posted July 14, 2011 WWE's biggest problem is they have limited themselves by becoming a PG product, they have boxed themselves in and left very little room to push the boundries. WWE rightfully changed there name from World WRESTLING Entertainment, cause theres very little in the way of true Wrestling action going on. Cage Matches, Hardcore Matches, Last Man Standing matches are all watered down, WWE fans have stopped viewing cause alot of them are fans who remember the old days and refuse to settle for what WWE is producing now, a cartoon show that would be better suited for the Disney Channel. WWE sold themselves out to the die hard WWE fan the moment they signed up to become PG or whatever they are. Â Bollocks. WWE wasn't PG when it was fucking god awful from 2003-2007 or so. The problem is shitty writing. It'd be shitty writing if it was PG, U or R18. If anything, it'd probably be worse if the writing team had less boundaries, because they'd come up with all kinds of stupid and offensive shite. And anyway, Smackdown has always been TV-PG. Nitro was TV-PG too during it's pomp. That was still a quality and edgy show. The problem is with writers, not with certification. Or is this just another case of "It's not how I liked it 10 years ago and it needs to be that. Now and forever."? I don't think "Die Hard" fans of WWE are really die hard fans if they've stopped watching it because they've cut out cringeworthy sexual references and swearing, which frankly added nothing to the show.
Kiffy Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 WWE is fucking class. Look at how it makes plenty of cash, is the proven market leader and only game in town, sells out a 70,000 seater stadium every year for its big show, and they still want to find out how to bring the moaning cunt audience back on board. Â Fuck them, that's how. Every post in here, particularly the nostalgic ones, is offering the same old so-called constructive criticism, which when broken right down, is basically "do the wrestling show I liked when I was younger, mixed with a bit of what I like now". So basically, cater to the whims of millions of individual fans all over the world? Nah fuck that. To us lot, wrestling's like tabs. You're addicted, and if you honestly weren't, you probably woulndn't be in this thread or this arm of the forum. Â You might not love the show like you used to any more, but every now and then the company throws a bone out like the CM Punk angle, The Rock returning, Bret Hart, Nexus or whatever, just enjoy that and stop waiting for some daft boom period to come around again. Â Dillkid's mentioned on here before how much he adores 2002 and 03, which was because he was nipper. I love 1990-1996 WWF probably more than any period in the company ever, because I was young and involved in that way you only are when you're young and it's special. I've always enjoyed it, but post 2001, my interests peak and dip like everybody elses. Â WWE is nailing it now, because in Cena, they have what Hogan was in the 80s. Back then, I'd say it was a vocal minority of Observer readers that picked holes in his silly promos and three moves. These days, it's a vocal and visible majority going for the top guy instead. What it does do is create an enormous generation of young fans that will either stick around like we did, or force Vince's hand to cater for them when they become teenagers just like what happened the last time. Â So yeah, in conclusion, I'd say keep doing what you're doing. It's not 1995 with the water coolers being taken out to save money is it? Chill out and never stray away from completely ignoring us miserable bastards on the internet. We don't get it and we never fucking will. Â And bring back Diesel. Â The problem with that is, you've lost a huge amount of your audience over the last 7/8 years, despite still making massive profits and replacing alot of the lost revenue in america by branching out into more interntational tours and working harder on merchandise and licensing, profits are falling. Part of that can be blamed on the economic climate, when it comes to live gates and ppv's it certainly can. But when you're looking at drastically reduced ratings for your flagship raw and smackdown shows, you're losing major advertising revenue and this shows are available to as many people as where before, but they're not watching it, and that means you're doing something wrong, or not doing as much right as you used to be. Now if you're not trying to find out what that is, you're failing your shareholders on a massive scale, and quite frankly aren't fit to be running a business of this size. Â Yeah, he'd be great in a focus group. "Why would you change anything? So what if business is in the toilet! DON'T LISTEN TO THE FAPPERS!" Â Â Kenny puts it tather succintly, you'd kinda be idiotic to defend a business that's in decline as doing everything right. Â From my point of view it's two things. It's getting rid of the weapons, the blood, the nasty chair shots, the ridiculous falls, the very non-pg promo's and storylines. Yes you can point to katy vic and say that it was retarded and didn't draw shit, and you'd be right. But then you look at the most succesful period in the business and it's a drunken red neck giving people the finger, taking their heads off with chairs shots, with tables ladders chairs and blood on the undercard. That was fucking cool, cena being booked as hogan isn't. The second thing is the quality of your main event, and this is tricky for em, because getting talents like mick foley, the rock, stone cold, taker and hhh in one company at one time is just amazing. Half the reason cena and orton get shit for being the figure head of the company isn't because they're shit, they're not, they're really quite good. But cena on his best days couldn't lace austin or rocks boots in terms of crowd reactions and being a draw, and that's not to say anyone else could, he might be the closest, but if you were watching late 90's/early 00's wwe then you know what we get now is shite in comparison.
Mr.Showtime Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 A research group is holding invited focus groups in New York City asking men and women from 18-54 who are WWE fans or former WWE fans to talk about the WWE product including what they like and why they've stopped watching if they are lapsed fans. "Because I'm not your target audience anymore." Â It's as simple as that, isn't it?
JakEDUBDUB Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 You know what, I remember hearing rumours that WWE was getting a new logo..well that was a while ago but they need to freshen the whole product up..look at TNA , its now Impact Wrestling new set up and stuff, (should have brought all this up earlier lol) WWE are still using the old scratched attitude logo, its out of date..they are no way atall attitude anymore..they need a new logo, DEFINATELY a new WWE Championship Belt (the spinner has been awful from the start and hope Punk or someone changes it) and after going back and looking at clips of 'Old School Raw' that happened last year, I'd say if they are gonna stay P.G, go back to using the old blue ring with the red white and blue ropes and stuff. I really and truely hope somewhere in the world, Vince is seeing comments like these and what everybody else has said on here and people are probz saying the same sort of thing we are all saying, and hopefully Vince reads these and realises that he is indeed in the shit and needs to make changes big time. I mean blimey, I can watch Warrior and be entertained and with Cena..I just simply..fall asleep.
Slapnut Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I was watching a few PPV's from 1998-1999 the other night and what struck me was how every arena looked different. You don't get this anymore which is one of the main reasons I feel like I'm watching the exact same show on repeat most of the time. It seems like the only place that ever looks remotely different is Madison Square Garden. You could have Kingston vs. Ziggler, Uso's vs. Slater & Gabriel, and Cena vs. Orton at MSG and it would be tonnes more interesting just because it looks a bit different. Â Old School Raw was a breath of fresh air because of this.
C-Rock Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 If WWE wasnt PG it would be more flexible in what they could produce. The highlight of Raw these past couple of weeks has been CM Punk with his shoot style stuff, pushing the boundries and getting people talking. I agree the writting in WWE over recent years has been poor but I don't think WWE has helped themselves by converting to a PG product, they have boxed themselves in and limited themselves. Hell in a Cell has lost its excitment, I personally dont want to see 10 chair shots to the back and 6 to the stomach, theres no drama in that, theres no OMG in that. I don't think WWE should go full on hardcore theres only so much the human body can take before it breaks i.e. Chris Benoit but WWE needs to break out of the repeatitiveness its gotten itself in. Alot less people are purchasing WWE PPV's because you see one WWE PPV, you have seen them all. WWE programing has become stale and robotic, its no longer must see TV. WWE are doing the best with what they have but they shouldnt be limiting themselves at a time like this, they no longer have huge superstars like Hogan or the Rock or Stone Cold to rely on full time so in that case they need expand on what they have currently. Â Pre attitude era, WWE was very cartoon and family friendly and they were getting their arse handed to them by WCW for however many weeks by WCW because they were offering something new and exciting, WWE pulled things back in their favour by pulling out the attitude era which as we all know worked a treat and took WWE to there highest peak as far ratings and entertainment. WWE have not got that to go to anymore because like I keep saying they have boxed themselves in when they converted to PG. WWE are having to rely on the Rock next year to boost WrestleMania's appeal that can't last forever but I also don't think they can rely on the full time talent they have. They need to use the talent that they have and resources break out the box like they did with attitude era. WWE couldn't have competed with WCW if they have stayed the same, WWE fans are getting bored theres more excitment in Eastenders at the minute. You talk about the crap WWE writing at the minute but theres only so much that can be wrote, WWE is about in ring action its a Professional Wrestling company weather WWE like it or not, its not Hannah Montana. WWE writers I can imagine are doing the best with what they have which isnt very much. In the attitude era, Vince Russo god love him and they other writers could have a field day coming up with insaine scripts, they guys who put together the matches had more flexibleness to make each match different and unique due to different angles. Its like Vince Russo said when he was writting for WWE he made sure that every memeber on the roster had a story and a backround and meaning, you dont see that in WWE now.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 14, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 14, 2011 The Old School Raw was great. They should bring Gene Okerlund back to do the TV tapings. He's perfect for modern day WWE. He was class on the Old School Raw, doing his little interview gimmick on the ramp. Alvarez and Meltzer supported this opinion on an episode of the Observer radio (which was surprising, because I thought they'd hate Okerlund). Okerlund just looks right. He's the Jasper Carrott of pro wrestling. You know your going to feel at home when he pops up on screen. Its only in the absence of a middle man interviewer that you see how important he is. He's never nervous, never gets lost, always sells the impact of even the stupiest shit like he's genuinly offended. I love Gene.
patiirc Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 If WWE wasnt PG it would be more flexible in what they could produce..... (Snip) Â So in short you hate the PG wrestling and want to go back nearly 15 years to progress. Â Any particular reason other than the nostalgia hit?
Kiffy Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 So in short you hate the PG wrestling and want to go back nearly 15 years to progress. Any particular reason other than the nostalgia hit?  How does tonning down the product and booking your current champ like the guy who made you 25 years ago qualify as more progress?
Moderators PowerButchi Posted July 14, 2011 Moderators Posted July 14, 2011 Pre attitude era, WWE was very cartoon and family friendly and they were getting their arse handed to them by WCW for however many weeks by WCW because they were offering something new and exciting, Â 1997 you mean? WWF was producing edgy TV during the beating from WCW. Hart Foundation, Gang Wars, original incarnation of D-X doesn't scream "cartoon and family friendly" to me. Â The Attitude Era is viewed through rose-tinted glasses. It's not as if anything near to everything during that timeframe was perfect, and there was a shitload of chaff with the wheat. Â How are the writers "limited" at the moment? They aren't allowed to have swearing, shagging or wrestlers bleeding over the place, fair enough. I don't see how hugely limiting that really is though. Good writers are good writers regardless. That's what's lacking. If those boundaries weren't in place we'd have all manner of Beaver Cleavage and Meats.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 14, 2011 Paid Members Posted July 14, 2011 I always use WCW in 1996-98 as an example. No blood, no swearing, no weapons, no women with their lally's hanging out. But the show was violent, aimed at an adult audience, edgy and realistic. And it was beyond PG. They used to have a fucking Mascot with some kind of Dog's face or something in a pink bandana, but it didnt matter. And it had some of the best wrestling you will see and some of the biggest buyrates of the 90s. WCW proved it doesnt matter about the rating of the content. Its about how you present the content.
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