SIN CARA is WWE's " Next Big Thing"

[Big Rob]

It's fair to say that he's been a disappointment so far, but I still enjoy watching him. He brings something different to the table, which is always welcome.

 

It would be nice if WWE were interested in building a bit of a cruiserweight division around him. He would be perfect as the poster boy for that- but if they insist on pushing him towards the top of the card he's destined for failure. Even in the long term I don't see him as anything other than a midcard variety act.

 

Won't see that happening. Guys like Kofi Kingston, Rey Mysterio and Daniel Bryan would instantly be doomed as "cruiserweights" also, if reintroducing the "division" is your point. WWE has evolved beyond that.

If the singles run won't work out, they could always make Sin Cara a tag team star, next to a guy like Evan Bourne. This way he wouldn't have to work a whole match, but just pick his spots whenever he gets tagged in. That's the only way they could solve him botching 50% of the time next to keep promoting him like a megastar.

You point out that they'd never do a Cruiserweight division again, but then your next point relies on them heavily pushing tag teams, which almost seems less likely at this point.

[Reznor]

Being a massive lucha libre fan, i'm probably gonna come across as a little biased but i'd say he "could" be the next Mysterio but it's going to take time, lots and lots of time....i get the feeling wwe desperatly wants him to be the next rey RIGHT NOW from the get go and that's just not possible.

 

His time in mexico as Mistico was phenomenal, he was certainly made out to be the next big thing in lucha and got comparisons of being the second coming of santo and rey mysterio all the time, he even appeared on many lucha magazines in pictures and articles comparing them, and i would've agreed, back in mexico, he really stood out,there was Mistico,and then there was everyone else..even though a lot of others could do the same moves and looked good, Mistico had that x factor, and then he came to america....

 

here are the problems that i see:

 

1. he doesn't talk english and he will have to someday to get fans invested in big matches.

 

2.he was thrown from mexico right into wwe and put under the microscope because he's triple H's pet project,which is unfair, at least mysterio had the privelage to work years in ecw and wcw to get used to the american style and build himself up some popularity, and then when he arrived in wwe he already had a fanbase in the usa and lets not forget rey had a good roster of cruiserweights to work with in the beginning, cara does not. offcourse there is no place to learn like wcw these days but they could've at least put him through developmental instead of throw him on tv right away.

 

3.the fact that there IS already a rey mysterio with his huge legendary status, perhaps makes it harder for cara to stand out and seem fresh, he's constantly being compared to rey while he should just be the first sin cara, not rey 2. rey didn't really have this problem because when he came to america he was truly uniqe, nobody compared him to anybody which gives more freedom.

 

4. given wwe's poor track record of getting luchadors over, fans are extremely skeptical and over analyze his run,get him out from under that burning microscope and let him get comfortable, mysterios first matches weren't that botch free either yet nobody made a fuss over it back then.

 

5.no cruiserweight belt to give him and build status hurts his chances, let's say he was a cruiserweight champion and succesfully defenden that belt for a while, it would make look better and more important then he is now because he doesn't really have any goals to fight for that really fit him at this point,i wouldn't buy him as an ic champ or something like that yet so why is he fighting and why should we care ? rey being constantly on the hunt for the cruiser belt was great to watch.

 

I really hope he can break through,he has my support.

Good post, and I think it's hard to argue with those points regarding why it's going to be far more difficult for him. He really is fighting an uphill battle and it's impossible for him (or anyone) to live up the expectations that were placed on him. They're not excuses as some would paint them as, they're genuine mitigating circumstances.

 

The one thing I would disagree with is the Rey Jr comparison. He's been around 8 years and is nowhere near the calibre of Rey Jr, even at a much earlier stage of his career. I don't think he's ever seriously shown any potential that he may reach that level one day, Rey was a class apart and had it all. Mistico's given me a lot of entertainment over the years, but he is a limited worker.

 

After watching his first three months, I'm in two minds really. Knowing the background and the obstacles he has to overcome, I think he's given it a pretty good shot considering he's been thrown to the lions, so to speak. And i'm pleasantly surprised by just how popular he seems to be in the eyes of the masses. I never expected that, despite the hype and promotion - I figured he'd end up another Essa Rios or something.

 

On the other hand, I know that there isn't a whole lot more to him than what we've saw, and It's clear that he's always going to look better in the Lucha Libre environment than the WWE heavyweight ranks. Even if the execution of every co-operative move becomes perfect it's still not going to be enough because it's clear a lot of the problems many WWE fans have with him are more fundamental than nitpicking about the crispness of his spots. I would note though that, as mentioned earlier also, this 'botch-machine' tag is a wild exaggeration and a bit of a nonsense really.

 

If the WWE were realistic about things, they would have known he'd need to be built up gradually, rather than expecting him to explode onto the scene as a younger, more spectacular Rey Jr. Ideally, he'd have been given a good 4/5 months in FCW, then for his arrival, they could have reintroduced a decent light heavyweight division for him to familiarise himself with working in the WWE, and to establish himself over the next year or so.

 

Bottom line is though, as long as he's making the WWE money in Latin America, he'll be around for the long haul. But if this place is indicative of the majority of online fans in their teens/20s/30s, he's going to end up like Cena with the kids loving him, but being hated by so many many older/internet fans.

[ultimateidol]

I noticed a few posters stating that it would have been better sending him to FCW for a few months to get used to the style (which I totally agree with) but part of the agreement when he signed with WWE was that he wouldn't have to go through the developmental system. I wonder if Sin Cara or WWE regret that decision now.

[Arch Stanton]

It's not like he's absolutely bombing, he seems to be pretty well over and his matches aren't horrible to watch, just a bit too spotty and a bit too botchy. He will develop far faster on the main roster than he would in FCW anyway.

 

As someone else pointed out, if WWE had sent him to developmental, the same fans that are now bashing WWE for bringing him straight to TV would only only have bashed them for sending a supposedly good worker to Florida. With hindsight, you would have to admit that they couldn't really win.

[wrestlemaniacx]

I think he would benefit of being in a tag team with rey mysterio,with rey serving as the mentor on screen and obviously backstage,they could shoot vignettes of them sparring in practice matches and really build them up as the best high flying team ever so to speak,coming to take wwe by storm.

 

Personally i would not look at rey being in a team again as a step back as some are probably gonna argue, it gives rey something to do and being in tags would limit his work so he can take it easy for a while which we all know wouldn't be a bad thing for his body now.

 

after the initial good team efforts rey gives cara more responsibility and let him have singles matches while being at ringside to coach, cara would face other lighter guys like bourne, in good efforts and mostly winning, yet sometime losing to frustrate rey and build tension,not between rey and cara just make them look dissapointed in their failure to beat everyone.

 

After a while somehow del rio gets involved and starts making a mockery of the duo, cutting cocky heel promos:

 

rio " so rey,i see you took another luchador under your wing huh,i shouldn't be surprised, you weren't man enough to beat me on your own,but offcourse, you already know that *smiles*....rey looks pissed, del rio goes on "maybe know that theres 2 of you, you could become half as good as me *smirk* and he challenges cara to a match, match goes well,cara loses but just by a hair, surprising rio making rey proud....rio gets mad at rey and fights him, rey wins.

 

somehow del rio attacks rey and injures him, so rey is out but still comes to ringside with cara for support,rio starts laughing and challenges cara to a match again, cara agrees, they both get in the ring, then all of a sudden rio grabs the mic and goes " you know,i don't want to waste my time on you anymore,i hired someone who will do it for me and cara...,offcourse... *smirks*... you already know him ! out comes averno making his surprise debut !!

 

offcourse him and cara have a good match,maybe to create more heat averno could start ripping caras mask and then rey storms into the ring to stop the heinous act,but gets attacked by rio again and the whole thing ends in a brawl setting up tag matches between rey and cara vs rio and averno

 

this feud goes on for a while untill the teams fall apart, specially the rio/averno team, and rio and averno can go into a feud of their own, leaving rey and cara to go teir seperate ways as well after a friendly promo/segment with rey telling care he's proud of him,they are "familia" and rey wishes cara the best.

 

The main point of all of this is that it would give cara a few months time to work with experianced guys and hopefully by the time he goes solo again, being better than he is now.

 

also, on a side note, during the time rey and cara team up,to pay homage to a lucha libre tradition they should wear masks the resemble each other, masks that have design elements of both, this not only solidifies their status as a solid team, it also gives the kiddies more merchandise to buy with all the special figures and toy masks that could be produced during that time.

[Carbomb]

The great thing about Kharma (before she started crying) was you knew exactly what her motivation was and what her charcter was about (plus you had a performer that was perfect for the role). All we know about Sin Cara is he is big in Mexico and can just about manage a few standard WWE high flying moves. As Vince McMahon might say, 'What is a Sin Cara?'.

 

I agree that Sin Cara's been disappointing, but I don't think that particular point is much of an argument. You could very easily have asked "What's a Rey Mysterio?" at the beginning of his career too. He's never had much of a definitive character.

[ColinBollocks]

The great thing about Kharma (before she started crying) was you knew exactly what her motivation was and what her charcter was about (plus you had a performer that was perfect for the role). All we know about Sin Cara is he is big in Mexico and can just about manage a few standard WWE high flying moves. As Vince McMahon might say, 'What is a Sin Cara?'.

 

I agree that Sin Cara's been disappointing, but I don't think that particular point is much of an argument. You could very easily have asked "What's a Rey Mysterio?" at the beginning of his career too. He's never had much of a definitive character.

That's unfair to compare the two though. Rey Mysterio was never pushed as anything other than a midcarder in WCW (I'm guessing you're talking about his start in the big leagues), but even then WCW pushed him as the most athletic wrestler ever and a fighting underdog. Rey had the ability to pull this off, unlike Sin Cara.

 

I'm not blaming this on Sin Cara. As I said, it's creatives problem. I feel the point is relevant, in regards to him being the "next big thing".

 

Also Reys character is "the biggest little man" an underdog, with incredible will and undeniable athletic ability. He's a John Cena/Bret Hart-type, in that he's all about telling the truth and being an all-round nice chap.

[Carbomb]

That's unfair to compare the two though. Rey Mysterio was never pushed as anything other than a midcarder in WCW (I'm guessing you're talking about his start in the big leagues), but even then WCW pushed him as the most athletic wrestler ever and a fighting underdog. Rey had the ability to pull this off, unlike Sin Cara.

 

I only compared them because of the thread title, which is kind of valid, given that it's clear WWE are looking to have someone finally replace Rey when he retires (which has to be soon, given the state his body's in).

 

I agree Rey is better than Sin Cara, as he sells more, speaks more, and knows how to work a WWE main event match. But that's not his character.

 

I'm not blaming this on Sin Cara. As I said, it's creatives problem. I feel the point is relevant, in regards to him being the "next big thing".

 

Oh, I wasn't saying you were - I think most of us agree they really should've had a bit of patience and put him into developmental. Yes, there are those who'd complain about him going straight there, but as Pitcos said, those who do aren't exactly playing in the deep end of the gene pool.

 

Also Reys character is "the biggest little man" an underdog, with incredible will and undeniable athletic ability. He's a John Cena/Bret Hart-type, in that he's all about telling the truth and being an all-round nice chap.

 

Yeah, but he wasn't always like that. When he started in WWE, he almost exclusively faced other cruisers, so wasn't playing an underdog.

 

What I'm trying to get at with the comparison to Sin Cara is that lack of character is not the problem here: Rey Mysterio, when he started, had colourful gear, a cool mask, and even cooler high-flying moves. He had no discernible character at the time because, simply, he didn't need one - everyone loves colour, masks and high-flying. Sin Cara has the same, and it's definitely not an obstacle to him.

 

What IS an obstacle to him is his botching, his lack of selling (this is the most important if he's going to replace Rey), and his inability to cut promos. I also think, eventually, he's going to have to at least have the eye holes of his mask open - being able to see someone's eyes is quite important, especially in wrestling.

[ColinBollocks]

When Rey Mysterio turned up in WWE, he already had several years of mainstream exposure in WCW (so it was not exactly like they were starting from scratch), that's why it's a little silly to compare where Rey was and where Sin Cara is right now. Also add into the fact he was brought in as a midcarder in a midcard division, exclusive to one brand. A masked man with cool moves is perfect for a midcarder (Jeff Hardy was a very popular midcarder for years just doing cool moves and looking cool) BUT if you want to make someone a main eventer (their goal) and a proper attraction, you need more than this. When Rey started to get over WWE went further into "What's a Rey Mysterio?", to the point he had his family involved on TV.

 

My biggest problem with Sin Cara being "masked ultra athletic highflyer" (I've typed this before), is he's currently third behind Rey Mysterio and Evan Bourne in the WWE high flyer style. I can see people turning on him if he keeps being as ropey in his execution as he has been, and WWE continue to push him as the "masked ultra athletic highflyer", because people will start to see he's a bit of a fraud, you already here a bit of a groan when one of his spots looks off. I honestly can see Sin Cara getting booed in places like New York and events like Wrestlemania if he doesn't start living up to the hype.

 

I was one of the few that was sticking up for Sin Cara in his first few weeks (he was unlucky that his first two opponents fucked up a few spots) and still think the production on him is excellent (well apart from the daft lights), but we agree it's clear he needs a TON of work.

[Carbomb]

When Rey Mysterio turned up in WWE, he already had several years of mainstream exposure in WCW (so it was not exactly like they were starting from scratch), that's why it's a little silly to compare where Rey was and where Sin Cara is right now. Also add into the fact he was brought in as a midcarder in a midcard division, exclusive to one brand. A masked man with cool moves is perfect for a midcarder (Jeff Hardy was a very popular midcarder for years just doing cool moves and looking cool) BUT if you want to make someone a main eventer (their goal) and a proper attraction, you need more than this. When Rey started to get over WWE went further into "What's a Rey Mysterio?", to the point he had his family involved on TV.

 

Oh, definitely. Sin Cara's is not going to be a convincing main eventer the way he is now - he needs a fuckton of work. But like I say, Rey, even with the wCw exposure, still had no defined character at the beginning of his runs in wCw or WwF.

 

I was one of the few that was sticking up for Sin Cara in his first few weeks (he was unlucky that his first two opponents fucked up a few spots) and still think the production on him is excellent (well apart from the daft lights), but we agree it's clear he needs a TON of work.

 

Yep, I was the same. One can only hope they'll find a way to either send him to developmental, or to get him to learn to work on the job.

[twelve_grand]

I'm liking him and indeed whether people want to admit it or not he's got over as a midcarder with the general wrestling community. It's only because he's so unusual in WWE these days that people are spotting the botches so much - WCW /NJPW cruiserweights botched loads of stuff (check out Liger and Ultimo Dragon from Classics two weeks ago - if you just looked at the missed spots it was terrible but if you let them have that it was very good) but that's not the point - they provide some OMG moments, change up the pace of the show for that match and have occasional 4 star plus matches. Sin Cara is doing the first two for me and stick him in with Bryan or Bourne for 20mins and even with a few missed spots it will be a very good well paced match.

[King Pitcos]

Yeah, but he wasn't always like that. When he started in WWE, he almost exclusively faced other cruisers, so wasn't playing an underdog.

That's not true. His first pay-per-view match was against Kurt Angle, wasn't it? And then he was always wrestling Angle and Benoit as well as the Guerreros. He even had a little feud with A-Train in his first 6 months or so. He did go on to spend a lot of time in the cruiserweights in 2003-04, but even then he had matches with Undertaker and big feuds with Big Show, Haas and Benjamin and the Dudleys.

 

Edit: Watching Afterburn now. I didn't notice just how shit and awkward loads of the Christian-Sin Cara match was when I watched Smackdown on Friday. He really is crap. I noticed in a match a few weeks ago there were some very obvious edits, they should've done the same with this match and cut out some of the dodgy sequences. Showing full Sin Cara matches when he's this bad isn't helping him.

[Carbomb]

Yeah, but he wasn't always like that. When he started in WWE, he almost exclusively faced other cruisers, so wasn't playing an underdog.

That's not true. His first pay-per-view match was against Kurt Angle, wasn't it?[/quote And then he was always wrestling Angle and Benoit as well as the Guerreros. He even had a little feud with A-Train in his first 6 months or so. He did go on to spend a lot of time in the cruiserweights in 2003-04, but even then he had matches with Undertaker and big feuds with Big Show, Haas and Benjamin and the Dudleys.

 

Could've sworn it was against Chavo. I don't even remember most of that other stuff. Right - ignore anything I've said about Rey's character, I've gotten it wrong.

 

One thing I'll say about how they debuted Sin Cara - I get the impression they were aiming to make him a giant-killer type character, because he was going after a load of big blokes straight away. Maybe they felt that was the best way to hide his lack of selling and his botching (i.e. that he's so enthusiastic and aggressive, he makes mistakes, etc.).

[Dirty Eddie]

Yeah, but he wasn't always like that. When he started in WWE, he almost exclusively faced other cruisers, so wasn't playing an underdog.

That's not true. His first pay-per-view match was against Kurt Angle, wasn't it?[/quote And then he was always wrestling Angle and Benoit as well as the Guerreros. He even had a little feud with A-Train in his first 6 months or so. He did go on to spend a lot of time in the cruiserweights in 2003-04, but even then he had matches with Undertaker and big feuds with Big Show, Haas and Benjamin and the Dudleys.

 

Could've sworn it was against Chavo. I don't even remember most of that other stuff. Right - ignore anything I've said about Rey's character, I've gotten it wrong.

 

One thing I'll say about how they debuted Sin Cara - I get the impression they were aiming to make him a giant-killer type character, because he was going after a load of big blokes straight away. Maybe they felt that was the best way to hide his lack of selling and his botching (i.e. that he's so enthusiastic and aggressive, he makes mistakes, etc.).

Rey beat Chavo in his debut, but it was on TV rather than PPV.

[cokeorpepsi]

He just does too much in his matches, in the match with Christian once Christian went outside he got his "shine" by flipping about a ridiculous amount of times and there was no need, it doesn't prove anything to a fan other than he's very athletic. But what reason have we for supporting him or liking him? None at the moment he has no character and I just can't get into his matches. Some of them look like INdy Spot Fests, just jump/flip after jump/flip to no real damage or point. As well as that, his costume also makes him look tiny, unsure if it's the colour or because its tights and not baggy tights like Rey Rey.

 

A Crusierweight Division would be warmly welcomed people like Smith/SinCara/Ryder ..etc could light it up, but it looks like the days of London/Kidman/Kendrick/Rey Mysterio/Kid Kash are over.