jimufctna24 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Your not understanding me at all. None of what your saying is relevent, because I'm only using Rock and Hogan as an example. I'm not saying one shouldnt be a five star and the other shouldnt. I'm not saying what shouldnt be, I'm saying how certain things arent. I'm saying the same reasons that Kobashi and Joe was given the full five and Hogan and Rock was only given what it was given was because of the same reasons. Forgot the dream match shite for a second, and we'll take Austin and Rock. That had everything. Workrate, atmosphere, a hot ending, the lot. HHH vs Michaels vs Benoit had everything. They never got five stars. Nobody can tell me that Benoit's three way with HHH and Michaels was less of a match than Joe/Styles/Daniels three way. I'm saying the whole five star crap is ridiculous, because most of it contradicts the other stuff it down grades. Michaels vs Undertaker had everything you could want in a match. It even did enough to warrent another match with similar results. How is that not getting full marks? Talk about "workrate". This pair had to take months off because they worked so hard. It makes you wonder what world someone is living in when Rock vs Triple H at Bashlash 2000 is seen as less entertaining than a Dragon Gate six man that wasnt as good as the matches they have in the Orient. Were there not period's of that match that were played out to almost complete silence? I havent seen the match since it happened but I swear several pointing this out at the time. Â In terms of 5 star matches, it is weird what Meltzer rates but I would certaintly agree with Punk vs Cena as 5 star's and would not have argued with HHH vs Taker getting that treatment also in recent times. They both had it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Your not understanding me at all. None of what your saying is relevent, because I'm only using Rock and Hogan as an example. I'm not saying one shouldnt be a five star and the other shouldnt. I'm not saying what shouldnt be, I'm saying how certain things arent. I'm saying the same reasons that Kobashi and Joe was given the full five and Hogan and Rock was only given what it was given was because of the same reasons. Forgot the dream match shite for a second, and we'll take Austin and Rock. That had everything. Workrate, atmosphere, a hot ending, the lot. HHH vs Michaels vs Benoit had everything. They never got five stars. Nobody can tell me that Benoit's three way with HHH and Michaels was less of a match than Joe/Styles/Daniels three way. I'm saying the whole five star crap is ridiculous, because most of it contradicts the other stuff it down grades. Michaels vs Undertaker had everything you could want in a match. It even did enough to warrent another match with similar results. How is that not getting full marks? Talk about "workrate". This pair had to take months off because they worked so hard. It makes you wonder what world someone is living in when Rock vs Triple H at Bashlash 2000 is seen as less entertaining than a Dragon Gate six man that wasnt as good as the matches they have in the Orient. So your gripe is that the system sucks, not with any particular match being over/underrated? I do understand that, and can see arguments for any of the matches you mentioned being higher. Honestly, it's a problem that will always exist, it's all subjective and one man's opinion (Meltzer) at the end of the day. As long as you can find enjoyment in a match, the rating isn't the be all end all, but it's nice to have as a guideline. That's the point of reviews anyway, isn't it, to provide a basis, not to spoon-feed an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Were there not period's of that match that were played out to almost complete silence? I havent seen the match since it happened but I swear several pointing this out at the time. Austin vs the Rock had silence in it also, but that match was brilliant. Most of the Japanese matches he's given five stars to had complete silence and a bunch of clapping in it. The WM20 main event was a pure rollercoaster though. You dont have to have the fans going mental all the way through. Some would say its best to bring them down and then bring it up again as not to wear them out. Like Bob Armstrong says "if they yell boring ... thats when its time to turn it down a notch". Kamala vs Jim Duggan in mid-80s had a match where the crowd were constantly on their feet and going balistic, but no sane person would say that was world class. In my opinion, it was a perfect way to end the 20th WrestleMania. It was so good, even now I think "what a great bloke that Chris Benoit is" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 People are over analyzing this. It's just some blokes opinion. No different from Mark Kermode saying a film is shit because it didn't make him laugh, even though popcorn was coming out of your nose because you were laughing so much, when you watched it. Mark Kermode thinks Star Wars is shite, even thought a large majority on the planet disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 People are over analyzing this. It's just some blokes opinion. Of course, but its worth discussing due to the amount of weight Meltzers opinion carries with certain people on the internet. Nothing would ever change my opinion of my favourite or my favourite matches. Its no different than the people who say Cena cant wrestle, even though he bangs out half a dozen MOTY contenders every year. Its worth discussing how off their tits the likes of those people are as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Austin vs the Rock had silence in it also, but that match was brilliant. Most of the Japanese matches he's given five stars to had complete silence and a bunch of clapping in it. The WM20 main event was a pure rollercoaster though. You dont have to have the fans going mental all the way through. Some would say its best to bring them down and then bring it up again as not to wear them out. Like Bob Armstrong says "if they yell boring ... thats when its time to turn it down a notch". Kamala vs Jim Duggan in mid-80s had a match where the crowd were constantly on their feet and going balistic, but no sane person would say that was world class. In my opinion, it was a perfect way to end the 20th WrestleMania. It was so good, even now I think "what a great bloke that Chris Benoit is" I get you're point about not wanting to burn the crowd out. Â I do remember the climax of when Beniot had HHH in the crossface being tremendous. I guess if you are on about Japan with Meltzer, because of the different culture he does'nt critique crowd noise but does critique crowd noise with matches that take place in America. Which I guess makes it a lot harder to get 5 stars in front of a American audience than in front of a Japanese audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Of course, but its worth discussing due to the amount of weight Meltzers opinion carries with certain people on the internet. Nothing would ever change my opinion of my favourite or my favourite matches. Its no different than the people who say Cena cant wrestle, even though he bangs out half a dozen MOTY contenders every year. Its worth discussing how off their tits the likes of those people are as well. I'm not saying people can't discuss it, just that people are over thinking this. I really don't think there is a secret system of box ticking he uses and sits there after making sure it ticks everyone, if he's into it he'll give it *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'm not saying people can't discuss it, just that people are over thinking this. I really don't think there is a secret system of box ticking he uses and sits there after making sure it ticks everyone, if he's into it he'll give it *****. Indeed there isn't, and this applies to both sides of the coin. There's no poiint saying "why did x get five stars and y didn't" but equally there's no point saying "this match is good because meltzer liked it", it's just that people who pay for his newsletter may want his opinion. Â Â Honestly, I'm fucking amazed that the match got 5 stars. Meltz isn't as critical of Cena as most, but there seemed to be a couple of near misses (mostly punk countering things and falling over, which happened a few times] so I thought purists would say it wasn't worth it. Â I mean, I was yelling "run you cunt" at the screen at 4 o clock in the morning after Punk kicked JBL in the head, so it gets the snowflakes from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 I mean, I was yelling "run you cunt" at the screen at 4 o clock in the morning after Punk kicked JBL in the head, so it gets the snowflakes from me  Freudian slip? Wishful thinking? Had a pint or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 Freudian slip? Wishful thinking? Had a pint or two? Perfectly deliberate. Juan Bradshaw Layfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted July 21, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's sad how many people online (not many in this thread, to be fair) seem to think the star rating system is done by starting with five stars and then knocking a bit off for every "mistake". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's sad how many people online (not many in this thread, to be fair) seem to think the star rating system is done by starting with five stars and then knocking a bit off for every "mistake". This line of thinking was explained to me recently by one of my university tutors. He told me the education system in America is referred to as a 100%-, and is counterproductive because students would ask him, "where did I lose marks?" rather than focusing on the things they had actually done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Cena has half a dozen MOTY contenders every year? He has one, if he's lucky. And he had this year's last Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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