2011/2012 Scottish Football Thread

[mikey]

They should unquestionably be automatically relegated and stripped of all honours they achieved while operating the schemes. If every improperly registered player earns them a 3-0 loss, they are now the world's LEAST successful football team. 12 years without a single win! The question of compensating clubs that have lost out because of it is difficult. Really, their grudge would be with the governing body, not Rangers, and the governing bodies couldn't be expected to compensate clubs for the illegal actions of another party. If someone really wanted to fight it they might end up getting something, but you can't get blood out of a stone and the costs of the legal battle would probably not be worth it. Shame, really. I'd really like to see these cheating bastards get what they deserve.

 

If West Ham owed 30m over Tevez/Mascherano and a breach of trust with its fellow EPL members, then the same is surely true of Rangers and the other SPL members.

[mikey]

There was talk a few weeks back that Campbell Ogilvie, who I believe has pleaded some level of ignorance, had allegedly implemented EBTs at Hearts, yet they're now denying any knowledge.

 

The other thing I heard, which could be bullshit, is that the reason why Celtic dabbled in EBTs is because Juninho insisted upon it when he signed, as he'd had one in place in England. This would mean that Middlesbrough, who somehow rustled up shitloads of money to pay for players they had no right to afford, also dabbled in misuse of EBTs. Would explain how Alen Boksic was the highest paid player in the country at one point.

[FUM]

That article on Celtic is stupid as fuck. Celtic have paid the tax liability for it. The issue with Rangers losing the matches they played is the side contracts for the EBT's, not the actual EBT's themselves. The EBT's themselves is the reason for the tax case not the reason the SPL are investigating.

 

Following numerous enquiries as to the clubs’ position on the situation at Rangers FC from both supporters and members of the media, the board has issued the following statement.

 

“The club continues to actively participate in the discussions being held at the SPL in relation to the current issues at Rangers Football Club.

 

“To date we have seen no proposals to transfer a share in the SPL to a “Newco” and have therefore made no decision on how we would vote if such a scenario did arise. We have purposefully avoided making any public statements to date given the uncertainty of the situation and the lack of any clarity on what, if anything, we will be required to vote on.

 

“Once we have full information we will be able to decide our position. Any speculation on the basis of conjecture only adds to the damage to the game and all of our interests.

 

“We are well progressed with a plan that is designed to bring both fan ownership and long term financial stability to the club, without reliance on funding from either a bank or a benefactor. We do not believe we can separate the sporting integrity of our league from the sustainable future of our club; the two go hand in hand.

 

“Any decisions we take as a Board are made in the best interests of the club with a view to achieving our stated aims for ownership and funding.

 

“In the event that a “Newco” proposal is presented to us, we intend to fully discuss with representatives of our supporters groups, prior to making any decision.”

 

Motherwell statement today. That'll be a "yes to NewCo" vote then.

[mikey]

It's not about tax liability but about whether they used an EBT to pay Juninho outside his contract. So long as there's no incriminating side letter and the EBT was being used for what it should have been used for, i.e. discretionary payments from the club that an employee may apply to the trustee to receive as a loan - then I don't see it as an undisclosed payment. However, if they informed Juninho that a certain amount of money was going to be paid outside his contract lodged with the SFA, it doesn't matter if they paid the tax or not, it's a 3-0 walkover for any game in which he played.

 

And it's a yes from Motherwell and, according to an article I read earlier, Kilmarnock to a NewCo.

[FUM]

It's not about tax liability but about whether they used an EBT to pay Juninho outside his contract. So long as there's no incriminating side letter and the EBT was being used for what it should have been used for, i.e. discretionary payments from the club that an employee may apply to the trustee to receive as a loan - then I don't see it as an undisclosed payment. However, if they informed Juninho that a certain amount of money was going to be paid outside his contract lodged with the SFA, it doesn't matter if they paid the tax or not, it's a 3-0 walkover for any game in which he played.

 

And it's a yes from Motherwell and, according to an article I read earlier, Kilmarnock to a NewCo.

 

Yes it does. Rangers are NOT being investigated by the SPL because they used EBT's. The SPL did not decide to investigate until the side contracts came out, and that is what they are investigating. As below, payments solely relating to playing activities must be fully recorded and declared. If there is no side letter, Celtic would win any case the SFA/SPL brought upon them. If there is a side letter, then there is cause for all those games to have ended 3-0 to the opposing team. However, Juninho left Celtic in April 2005, he got the EBT in April 2005. He played no games after receiving the EBT therefore Celtic have done nothing wrong in regards to SPL rules.

 

What if Rangers players have received side-letters?

 

BBC Scotland has also seen evidence, which was submitted to a court, suggesting that 53 Rangers players and staff had side-letters giving undertakings to fund their sub-trusts with cash.

 

According to the Scottish Football Association's registration rules, payments received by a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded and declared, otherwise the player has been improperly registered.

 

If a player is deemed to be improperly registered, the norm is for his team to forfeit any match in which he has participated.

[David]

Motherwell statement today. That'll be a "yes to NewCo" vote then.

Which is why I binned my season ticket renewal letter the day that statement was released.

[mikey]

Yes it does. Rangers are NOT being investigated by the SPL because they used EBT's. The SPL did not decide to investigate until the side contracts came out, and that is what they are investigating. As below, payments solely relating to playing activities must be fully recorded and declared. If there is no side letter, Celtic would win any case the SFA/SPL brought upon them. If there is a side letter, then there is cause for all those games to have ended 3-0 to the opposing team. However, Juninho left Celtic in April 2005, he got the EBT in April 2005. He played no games after receiving the EBT therefore Celtic have done nothing wrong in regards to SPL rules.

 

We're arguing the same side of this. What I'm saying is that if it wasn't properly administered and used in the way that Rangers were using it, Celtic would be liable also. You're saying it's an irrelevance based on information I didn't have.

[David]

Another fantastic performance from the national side last night. Hopefully Levein won't be long in the job now.

[The Cum Doctor]

Lets not forget he's gonna get some big club offers.

 

Fucking imbecile.

[FUM]

Yes it does. Rangers are NOT being investigated by the SPL because they used EBT's. The SPL did not decide to investigate until the side contracts came out, and that is what they are investigating. As below, payments solely relating to playing activities must be fully recorded and declared. If there is no side letter, Celtic would win any case the SFA/SPL brought upon them. If there is a side letter, then there is cause for all those games to have ended 3-0 to the opposing team. However, Juninho left Celtic in April 2005, he got the EBT in April 2005. He played no games after receiving the EBT therefore Celtic have done nothing wrong in regards to SPL rules.

 

We're arguing the same side of this. What I'm saying is that if it wasn't properly administered and used in the way that Rangers were using it, Celtic would be liable also. You're saying it's an irrelevance based on information I didn't have.

 

Apologies, thought you were saying it was administered wrongly.

[gary v1]

Motherwell statement today. That'll be a "yes to NewCo" vote then.

Which is why I binned my season ticket renewal letter the day that statement was released.

 

Whilst I applaud your stance, how far will you take this? If they do vote a NewCo back in will you never be back at Fir Park? Will you just give up on Scottish football or support a new team, say Albion Rovers? (I assume there's no way you could bring yourself to support Airdrie). Will you forgive them and go back after a suitable period or will you just focus on Liverpool and the EPL?

 

Once again I think you're doing the right thing and will be impressed if you stay away even if you get into the Champions league groups and draw some top teams.

[David]

Motherwell statement today. That'll be a "yes to NewCo" vote then.

Which is why I binned my season ticket renewal letter the day that statement was released.

Whilst I applaud your stance, how far will you take this? If they do vote a NewCo back in will you never be back at Fir Park? Will you just give up on Scottish football or support a new team, say Albion Rovers? (I assume there's no way you could bring yourself to support Airdrie). Will you forgive them and go back after a suitable period or will you just focus on Liverpool and the EPL?

 

Once again I think you're doing the right thing and will be impressed if you stay away even if you get into the Champions league groups and draw some top teams.

I'll be staying away from SPL matches. I'll still attend cup matches, and European matches because the integrity of those tournaments hasn't been called into question.

 

You have to understand, this isn't a protest. I doubt the club will really care if I buy my season ticket or not, it's simply a case of me not buying into the SPL product anymore.

[Bring Back Minipops]

Motherwell statement today. That'll be a "yes to NewCo" vote then.

Which is why I binned my season ticket renewal letter the day that statement was released.

Whilst I applaud your stance, how far will you take this? If they do vote a NewCo back in will you never be back at Fir Park? Will you just give up on Scottish football or support a new team, say Albion Rovers? (I assume there's no way you could bring yourself to support Airdrie). Will you forgive them and go back after a suitable period or will you just focus on Liverpool and the EPL?

 

Once again I think you're doing the right thing and will be impressed if you stay away even if you get into the Champions league groups and draw some top teams.

I'll be staying away from SPL matches. I'll still attend cup matches, and European matches because the integrity of those tournaments hasn't been called into question.

 

You have to understand, this isn't a protest. I doubt the club will really care if I buy my season ticket or not, it's simply a case of me not buying into the SPL product anymore.

 

Wouldnt the cups have been affected as Rangers would have been fielding the players on EBT's in them as well?

[MungoChutney]

You could argue that point for the Scottish Cup as the SFA are in charge of player registration although I think the contractual side of things is handled by the SPL which would cover EBTs. UEFA competitions can't really be questioned though as I don't imagine they have any dealings with player contracts and it's the SFA which grants the license to play in Europe anyway.

[David]

Wouldnt the cups have been affected as Rangers would have been fielding the players on EBT's in them as well?

I'm not ditching my season ticket because Rangers have adversely affected the SPL, I'm doing so because they're basically doing whatever it takes to ensure they get the kind of treatment that no other club would in their position. In plain terms, the baw has burst as far as SPL football goes for me.