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Wrestling & MMA Gifs *NSFW*


obama_316

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I hate that convoluted RoH style, but you have to appreciate that they are putting together those sequences to cater to the audience they perform for, and those mutants lap that sort of shit up. It's bush league rubbish, but it's what works for them. I do admire the fact that a lot of the RoH guys make the effort to think up creative counters and sequences, because you don't see much innovation in mainstream wrestling these days. Unfortunately, there is a fine line between clever counters and choreographed nonsense that most of their roster fall the wrong side of.

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Not to mention rolling through a DDT completely kills it and everything for everyone else, as you get dropped on your head. "Doesn't matter, I'll roll through it without selling and do a falcon arrow". Why fucking bother selling anything then if you aren't going to sell a move where you get driven on your head? It's absolute fucking nonsense.

 

If you want ring psychology, just watch your old NWA tapes. I feel its dead now. One of the reasons I rarely watch anything these days.

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I do admire the fact that a lot of the RoH guys make the effort to think up creative counters and sequences, because you don't see much innovation in mainstream wrestling these days.

 

That's bollocks. Fancy, smooth, nonsensical sequences doesn't = innovation or imagination. It = lack of understanding, something most of the guys in mainstream wrestling do have and is exactly why you don't see them doing that shit. There's still plenty of innovation in the big leagues, just in different (better) forms.

 

Thunderplexs post is bollocks too. Ring phycology dead? Wrestling is nothing without it, it most certainly still exists and when it's used accordingly it's still tremendous.

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I do admire the fact that a lot of the RoH guys make the effort to think up creative counters and sequences, because you don't see much innovation in mainstream wrestling these days.

 

That's bollocks. Fancy, smooth, nonsensical sequences doesn't = innovation or imagination. It = lack of understanding, something most of the guys in mainstream wrestling do have and is exactly why you don't see them doing that shit. There's still plenty of innovation in the big leagues, just in different (better) forms.

You've either mis-read or mis-understood my post. Either way, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I said I admired their efforts in attempting to be creative, but criticised the lack of understanding and execution of those ideas. Did you just stop reading my post the second you read the sentence you quoted, completely ignoring my closing point?

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Nah, I got it and thought you may take it that way from the way I quoted. I only really wanted to address that bit. I get what you're saying, but I don't think it should be considered admirable and I don't consider it particularly creative. I think the sheer ignorance of showing a lack of understanding or any desire to gain an understanding or simply outright ignoring that to do their stuff makes it very un-admirable.

 

But mainly - 'that's bollocks' is directed at mainstream wrestling not showing much innovation these days. I don't particularly agree with that.

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I think you do have to give some credit to the Indys for pushing the boundaries. Think of it like a testing ground.. They try a lot of stuff - some of it works, some doesn't. It lacks refinement. But you do see some of the best ideas that come out of it end up in WWE. they've certainly borrowed moves and spots/sequences from Indy wrestling plenty, but just made them make more sense / used the good ones. Obviously they do it better, that's why they're the major leagues.

 

But regardless of whether you watch it or not I think it's false to say that it's without value.

 

I think that's what Arch was getting at.

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Yeah, I get that and agree to an extent with the gist of your point there. But anything they come up with which just goes against the nature and idea of pro-wrestling is the exact opposite of that. Even the ironic stuff which isn't for everyone and totally pushes the boundaries has it's place, as it often actually works within it's own world and its psychology. I'm up for any of that and that Davey Richards thing might be great in context for all I know. But there's a difference for me between being creative and making an awesome wrestling sequence and ignoring the fundamentals and lack of understanding. Those guys would be try-hard idiots. Brilliance lies in simplicity.

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I do admire the fact that a lot of the RoH guys make the effort to think up creative counters and sequences, because you don't see much innovation in mainstream wrestling these days.

 

That's bollocks. Fancy, smooth, nonsensical sequences doesn't = innovation or imagination. It = lack of understanding, something most of the guys in mainstream wrestling do have and is exactly why you don't see them doing that shit. There's still plenty of innovation in the big leagues, just in different (better) forms.

 

Thunderplexs post is bollocks too. Ring phycology dead? Wrestling is nothing without it, it most certainly still exists and when it's used accordingly it's still tremendous.

 

Why bollocks? It's purely my opinion as a fan who has lost a great deal of interest in a sport I love. It's been a long time since I have seen a match that really tells a story. If you have any examples of something I have missed that will get the blood pumping please share, I'll be more than happy to watch.

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I'd like to think that when it comes to RoH, a lot of the workers do understand that the style that RoH's audience has become accustomed to just doesn't work elsewhere and that it is a very niche product. Daniel Bryan and CM Punk were much the same when they wrestled there. Bryan is the master of adapting his style to suit the audience he's performing in front of. Maybe the best I've ever seen. You don't like that style, I sure as fuck don't like it (I did once upon a time!), but there is a market for it and that's what they cater to.

 

As for the innovation argument, I don't think you see much in WWE to be honest. Some yeah, but it's mainly from the likes of those guys I've just mentioned.

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But Daniel Bryan seemed a world away from a lot of the other ROH lot now. He wrestled a more 'pure' style, but you wouldn't catch him doing shit sequences like that. Benoit wrestled all over the world, but I can't remember rolling my eyes at him doing overly-choreographed sequences. Granted, I've picked two of the best wrestlers of their times but my point is that you can cater to that audience without reverting to bad psychology.

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I don't think any of us are defending shit like in that gif though. And if you don't think he's done over choreographed stuff like that then you clearly didn't watch much of him in Roh. He's one of the guys I associate with that style from when I used to be into that. Sure what they're doing now is even more ridiculous, but it's a style he was a part of pioneering.

Edited by Chest Rockwell
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I'm coming across the wrong way here and not making the point I was attempting to make, because i'm explaining it terribly to be fair. I wasn't particularly signalling out ROH, I've only ever really seen bits and pieces of it. I do agree with your general point and Punk is a great example of it. When I saw his ROH stuff and some of the stuff he was doing like the Pepsi Plunge I thought a lot his stuff was generally awful and didn't understand why so many seemed to consider him the second coming of Jesus, unless they just fancied him a bit, but once he got to WWE and they ironed everything out and got rid of all the shit I really enjoyed him. I liked his initial babyface run a lot. He's definitely someone who has that admirable intention but also sometimes lacks understanding and does occasionally fall into the try-hard category, like when he was getting over but went overboard on the insider references and jokes, when there was other elements there that were solid gold that he should have focused on and been obvious to him. Punk for the most part totally gets it, but all too often falls into trying to please the wrong kind of fan and try-hard. So yeah, the ROH fellas do often have something, have that good kind of eagerness to impress.

 

The sort of thing i'm thinking of (i'm going to explain this terribly again) is the sort of thing I saw on youtube years ago, I can't remember who it was or what the move was but it was the most convoluted thing I've ever seen. The guys finisher had about sixteen parts to it which ended in a back-cracker, I went through all your indy favourite finishers. I think it started like he's going for an overdive, he somehow ends up flipping over them and it ends in a back-cracker. It was fucking ridiculous and to me showed the guy didn't have much of a clue and thought throwing a thousand moves together to create one big move made him awesome. And I used to think the same about Punk for nicking all his shit from Japan or taking an over WWE move and completely ruining it by doing off the top rope. Christopher Daniels was similar. For years it felt like he didn't really get what was important and mattered in wrestling, yet everything he did looked smooth and lovely and stuff. But these he's pretty great.

 

Thunderplex - it is bollocks that there's no psychology in wrestling these days. And recent examples of matches? Oh I don't know, loads. I'm too tired to really think of some but i'll throw you Triple H vs Undertaker from WrestleMania XXVII which has become one of my favourite ever matches and Sheamus vs Big Show from Hell in a Cell last year for an even more recent example.

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Thunderplex - it is bollocks that there's no psychology in wrestling these days. And recent examples of matches? Oh I don't know, loads. I'm too tired to really think of some but i'll throw you Triple H vs Undertaker from WrestleMania XXVII which has become one of my favourite ever matches and Sheamus vs Big Show from Hell in a Cell last year for an even more recent example.

 

True, Undertaker matches just ooze psychology and I always look forward to them. unfortunatly we only get one a year. Not seen the Big Show, Sheamus one, so I will give it a gander. I just feel that apart from the big matches (e.g. the Undertaker ones), you rarely get more than one true mind-fest in any show. I am comparing to the old days when guys like Jake Roberts could just look across the ring and the drama was there. No high-flying, no complex chains, just wonderful mind-games. Don't get me wrong, I do find the athletic, high impact moves impressive to look at, I just feel that its all flash no bang now.

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I am comparing to the old days when guys like Jake Roberts could just look across the ring and the drama was there. No high-flying, no complex chains, just wonderful mind-games. Don't get me wrong, I do find the athletic, high impact moves impressive to look at, I just feel that its all flash no bang now.

You need to watch some Mark Henry.

 

I don't buy this idea that there is a lack of storytelling nowadays. WWE consistently deliver it in their big matches. They concentrate on that far more so than they do on high flying, complex chains, or athletic high impact moves. I'd say there's more bang than flash if anything.

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I'm with Arch there. People seem to just remember wrestling massively through rose tinted glasses. The truly amazing matches back in the day were actually much rarer and not as common, these days we're just spoilt. The matches of the last decade, there's actually loads and loads of high quality matches in there, as good as they've ever been, if not the best and occur more frequently.

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