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Jeff Jarrett


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Well he did, back when main eventers had charisma, he might fit right in now.

 

What WWE main eventers in recent years don't have charisma?

Sheamus, Khali, Swagger, Kane.

 

What WWE main eventers in recent years don't have charisma?

 

Sheamus, Khali, Swagger, Lashley?

 

What WWE main eventers...

 

Lashley maybe, still say that's clutching though.

 

None of the other guys are or were really WWE main eventers though.

Shamus - World Champ for 161 days

Great Khali - 61 days

Swagger - 82 days

 

So you have 10 months worth of world champs but no main eventers? depends how far back you want to go but i'd chuck Benoit's 5 month reign in from 2004

 

Until he unleashed his heel persona in his final run i thought Batista had no charisma at all in the ring and was allowed to show little outside of it.

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No. None of them have been true main eventers for WWE. They may have enjoyed a few PPV main events between them but they was never solid main eventers that anyone would really, actually class them as such and most of the time they wasn't top of the PPV card. If they was they shared it with others or a big gimmick.

 

Sheamus and Swagger were gambles ,mid-carders used out of position and Khali was a quick, temporary solution to a problem.

 

Batista shits charisma.

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As regards the 'main eventers with no charisma' argument: I'm not sure anyone is saying Jarrett could ever have been another Rock, Austin, Cena or Triple H. But outside that group of main event mainstays, there's also always been another crop of solid upper-midcarders who can be relied on to occasionally step up and mix it with the genuine headliners when required - Benoit, Jericho, Mysterio, Mick Foley in his prime. I'd even make a case for including Edge in there, because I'm not sure he's ever really drawn a penny as a main eventer. They're all solid all-rounders, but they're lacking that extra something that makes an entertaining act into a superstar. That's without mentioning the numerous no-marks who've had a go as world champion over the last few years.

 

I'm fairly sure Jarrett wouldn't have looked out of place in that second group. I don't think he jumped to WCW because he wanted Austin's spot or Triple H's spot at the time, the problem was that he wasn't even allowed a short feud with Austin. Bear in mind that at that point, people like Billy Gunn, Bossman, Test and Al Snow were getting mini-feuds with the likes of Rock and Triple H. I think Jarrett at least deserved a chance to show he could make the step up into such a feud, considering he had been probably the #2 heel in the promotion for the 2-3 months before he left.

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Sheamus has loads of charisma and is almost always a highlight of the week. I'd also argue that Swagger is decent too. Khali you can't exactly blame because of his incomprehensible English and Runjin's sideburns stealing the spotlight. Lashley I'll agree with, though it didn't help that he was a big black man with a little girl's voice.

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I remember one of the main criticisms Austin had of Jarrett is that Jarrett didn't have any fire to his in-ring work, with him specifically pointing out that Jarrett ran the ropes like a girl and never moved out of 2nd gear. It's quite a valid criticism to be fair, and the running the ropes thing still applies to this day. Look at the speen Jarrett hits the ropes at then compare it to someone like Kurt Angle. That's his style and it's fine but when you think about the style/speed of matches Austin was working back in those days it's understandable why he wouldn't want to work a program with him.

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I remember one of the main criticisms Austin had of Jarrett is that Jarrett didn't have any fire to his in-ring work, with him specifically pointing out that Jarrett ran the ropes like a girl and never moved out of 2nd gear. It's quite a valid criticism to be fair, and the running the ropes thing still applies to this day. Look at the speen Jarrett hits the ropes at then compare it to someone like Kurt Angle. That's his style and it's fine but when you think about the style/speed of matches Austin was working back in those days it's understandable why he wouldn't want to work a program with him.

 

I've heard that before from Austin. Not sure where though, it may have even been a RAW magazine interview or something?

 

I don't think Jarrett's style was too 'mid-gear' though, not at all. He had stellar matches with X-Pac, HBK and others in the 93-96 period and they were fast paced, cracking matches. He'd have kept up with Austin, I'm sure. In the series of matches he had with Benoit in WCW and with Angle in TNA he also showed that he's not afraid to get into a really snug, full-on, physical type of match either.

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Jarrett speculated on his DVD that it was a personal thing, dating back to the early part of Austins career. Cant be anything to do with ring work, if he's being serious. Jarrett in 1999 was great. I think he gets unfairly judged on his WCW title runs. Nobody looked good in the headline positions in 2000. Hogan, DDP, Nash, Flair, their stocked dropped hugely from their previous peaks. He had about 5 title reigns in the space of six weeks or something stupid and all his matches were filled with distracting run in type bullshit angles. Whether it involved Bischoff, Russo, Arquette, Mike Awesome, Kimberly Page, the New Blood, fucking Beetlejuice from the Howard Stern show, you could guarentee Jarrett wasnt going to be allowed to wrestle the type of matches he wanted. Things might have been different if someone who had a clue how to book a main event wrestler was in change of WCW. In 99/2000 WWF were shitting golden eggs, and Jarrett was never better than during the late 99-2000 period, where he was dragging the likes of Chyna, Sid Vicious and Scott Hall to quality matches and having Match of the Year-type bouts with Chris Benoit, Booker T and D'Lo Brown. Wrestling ability should never have been an issue as far as I'm concerned. He was class. Always has been. He always could take chicken shit and turn it into a Sunday roast. He had a cracking match with Jeff Hardy in 2004, during a period when Jeff Hardy was more fucked up and useless than he is today. And to get what he got out of Chyna was a miracle. Not forgetting last year, where he WRESTLED Mick Foley (weapons were banned) and it was class. It was a top match. And Foley even admits he cant do anything in 2010/2011 without the use of gimmicks. I'm surprised there are some people question that part of Jarrett. His performances in the ring have always been to a high standard.

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i thought Batista had no charisma at all in the ring and was allowed to show little outside of it.

 

 

Bollocks.

 

When he came in he was just a rioded up muscle man that was boring in the ring just like Rob Terry or Mason Ryan are now - show me examples to prove me different. He got the belt because McMahon w*nks over musclemag in bed at night. When he did his last run and creative let him be himself THEN he showed some charisma to me, Buts that my opinion, you have yours but to just put Bollocks without giving a reason why or backing up your statement is just waste of time.

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i thought Batista had no charisma at all in the ring and was allowed to show little outside of it.

 

 

Bollocks.

 

When he came in he was just a rioded up muscle man that was boring in the ring just like Rob Terry or Mason Ryan are now - show me examples to prove me different. He got the belt because McMahon w*nks over musclemag in bed at night. When he did his last run and creative let him be himself THEN he showed some charisma to me, Buts that my opinion, you have yours but to just put Bollocks without giving a reason why or backing up your statement is just waste of time.

 

I'd argue that the presence of people like Mason Ryan and Rob Terry does a good job of highlighting just how charismatic Batista was - even when he was green as grass, he had a visual charisma and intensity that so many other big men don't have. Terry and Ryan look for all the world like they should be able to kill someone, but for my money they actually detract from that starting point once they start lumbering about awkwardly and making 'intense' facial expressions that just look like they're straining for a shit.

 

Batista, though, looked like a killer from the start - I actually thought he had a more effective badass presence than Brock Lesnar did when they both starting out, even when he was fannying about as Reverend D-Von's sidekick. And it's clearly wrong to say that he got the belt just because of Vince's bodybuilder fetish - Batista got over organically with fans on the back of quite a moderate push, back in the day when the WWE used to base their title pushes and turns on audience reaction. Watch New Year's Revolution 2005 - as a tweener, he gets a far more positive reaction than the supposed #1 babyface at the time, Randy Orton.

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He got that becuase WWE had rammed Orton down the fans throat too early and too much so they were looking for someone else to get behind. Plus HHH worked his ass off to put his gym buddy over.

 

I'll accept people dont have the same view as me on him, i just found him boring.

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He definitely got boring after a while, but I think that was largely down to staleness. Prior to his last heel turn, I found him boring in the same way that I've found Cena boring for years, but I'd never deny either of them had charisma.

 

Re: the Batista push and Randy Orton - yes, fans were starting to turn against Orton as a babyface, but doesn't the fact that they rejected face Orton after a few months but accepted Batista in that role for years help to make the argument that his turn and push were in tune with fan reactions? He might have benefited from his association with Triple H, but that only gets you so far - look at Sheamus. While he's greatly improved since his initial push, he never has been and probably never will be as over as Batista was in 2004/5.

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As Mags has already verbalised, you don't get the kind of reactions Big Dave illicited having no or little charisma. You can find someone boring personally without it meaning they have no charisma. I could do without seeing John Cena on my screen for a while because I'm fed up of the sight of him, but I won't deny he's charismatic.

 

He got the belt because McMahon w*nks over musclemag in bed at night.

 

Neither an original nor particularly pleasant thought. Don't worry, you can say "wanks," you won't offend anyone. It's also bollocks, but I think that's been covered enough.

 

Batista also did one of the best promos ever without even saying a word, if you remember his silent promo / refusal to dignify the fans bile with a response on SmackDown not long after his turn. And don't forget his "just for laughs" promo on his way out.

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, Bats has never wrestled Jeff Jarrett.

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He's much better than solid. When he popped back up earlier in the year as a face, he had the Impact crowd eating out of his hand, a rare genuine reaction from a usually apathetic audience. But he's also a fantastic heel, as evidenced by this long-running feud with Angle. He's not afraid to play a chicken-shit heel.

 

I think that says more about the crowd than it does about Jeff Jarrett.

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Oh, and I'll just say this here seen as Double J's on topic. That IYH match with Shawn is one of my favourites ever, I wouldn't put it up there as a "best match eva!!" candidate, but it's insanely watchable, and is exactly what wrestling should be, FUN, and could be enjoyed by anyone.

 

That match at IYH 2 vs. Michaels was VERY fun and for me an easy **** match. I also liked his tandem with The Roadie in 1995.

You, seasider and Dave Meltzer, all about the star ratings.

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