How good was I?

[aaron]

The main thing I notice now looking back at Douglas is how weak his punches looked. Ugh.

 

Agreed. I always thought he was shit.

 

I joke how some wrestlers that are obviously quite decent just not particularly good are the drizzles... but Shane Douglas?? Not my cup of tea at all.

 

He's an ok promo guy though. Far better on the mic than in the ring - but that's obvious, right??

 

 

 

Personally, I like the ideas of gimmicks being elevated beyond just the one wrestler. I like that in storyline terms 'The Franchise' was willing to pass the torch, and have there be another Franchise; just like I enjoy the lineage of the 'Nature Boy' tag...

 

I think it'd be cool if they were to do something similar in todays wrestling, I think it'd go someway to cementing megastar status for someone if, for arguments sake, Triple H was to pass on the moniker 'The Game' on his way out.

 

 

Possibly has legs does this idea... although the bit about the Nature Boy reminds me of that shitehawk... but talking of the franchise... insulting to John Cena to have him anywhere near Shane Douglas frankly.

[martyngnr]

The only compliment I can give Shane Douglas is to say that "Perfect Strangers" is a brilliant tune.

 

Douglas was shite.

[air_raid]

Shane did play his part in a brilliant tag team rivalry in tandem with Rick Steamboat against the Hollywood Blondes. Some of their matches were a job to behold.

 

The less said about Dean Douglas, the better. Although I was happy that someone was winning with the Perfect Plex in the WWF in 1995, even if it wasn't Perfect.

 

In EcW, I did love everything about "The Franchise." The promos, the Triple Threat, the entrance music, the "head cheerleader," and just generally his aura of being "the man" in EcW. He was a despicable shit that made you want to see him get murdered. From bell to bell... eh. Take him or leave him. His losing of the belt to Taz was superb. No, not that belt. The Television title. Like all great heels I set himself up for a fall and then got his comeuppance big style. That really gave Taz a massive boost, even though he was already pretty popular.

 

Unfortunately his WcW will forever be marred by memories of him saying "are you ready for a Revolution?" and me thinking "nothing revolutionary about you any more, you fat broken down delusional never-was." He really did irk me with some of the stuff he said over the years that made me think he genuinely thought he was the best wrestler in the world, when in reality a lot of times he wasn't even the best wrestler in the ring. Say what you want about Ric Flair (and lots of people have said lots of things), but there is a lot of credibility to his reputation and every time Shane went off on Flair rather than trying to improve his own standing, he "went down in my estimation" as Kevin Keegan might have put it.

 

So, how good was Douglas? Good enough for what he achieved, but nothing more. Blighted by injuries he may have been, but for a guy to have the kind of attittude he did and pick up minor titles in both "the Big Two" and be three-time EcW World Champion, I'd still he did pretty well with the talent he had.

[Carbomb]

He did well in ECW where Paul E was forced to make the best with the talent he had. In the WWF, his weaknesses were exposed. He was too short to be a main eventer and his work and gimmick wasn't suitable for working a small-man style. Can you imagine him going up against the likes of Undertaker and Kane? It'd look utterly ridiculous.

 

I agree with this.

 

Taz got over in ECW by killing guys, rarely selling and never losing clean. In the WWF, that gimmick would've worked against other midcarders but eventually they would have to have put him up against the top guys and then what? The gimmick would be fucked the moment anybody beat him cleanly, even someone like Undertaker or Austin, so they'd either have to continue protecting him against their actual top guys (which, as you say, would've been ridiculous) or kill the gimmick and render his mega push a complete waste of time.

 

Basically he was Kimbo Slice in EliteXC.

 

Sorry to quote so late in the thread, but I just read this.

 

I'm not entirely sure what would make this scenario unacceptable, given that this is basically Goldberg. Yes, Goldberg was much bigger than Taz, but in terms of how this mechanic has been laid out, that's neither here nor there: the point is that they could've simply given Taz a Goldberg-style run if they had really wanted to make his ECW character work - have him come in and beat jobbers and midcarders for a while, maybe even the odd "threat" angle (like when an authority character wants to make a feud rival's life difficult - "sure, you got a match, and it's against... Tazz!"). This way is actually better, becuse the more established he gets as a threat and the longer he's kept away from the main eventers, the more intrigued people get about how well he'd do against the big guns. Basic booking, done many times before - Warrior versus Hogan, Lesnar versus The Rock, Hogan versus The Rock. Yes, these are the much higher profile feuds, but the dynamic is similar.

[unfitfinlay]

He did well in ECW where Paul E was forced to make the best with the talent he had. In the WWF, his weaknesses were exposed. He was too short to be a main eventer and his work and gimmick wasn't suitable for working a small-man style. Can you imagine him going up against the likes of Undertaker and Kane? It'd look utterly ridiculous.

 

I agree with this.

 

Taz got over in ECW by killing guys, rarely selling and never losing clean. In the WWF, that gimmick would've worked against other midcarders but eventually they would have to have put him up against the top guys and then what? The gimmick would be fucked the moment anybody beat him cleanly, even someone like Undertaker or Austin, so they'd either have to continue protecting him against their actual top guys (which, as you say, would've been ridiculous) or kill the gimmick and render his mega push a complete waste of time.

 

Basically he was Kimbo Slice in EliteXC.

 

Sorry to quote so late in the thread, but I just read this.

 

I'm not entirely sure what would make this scenario unacceptable, given that this is basically Goldberg. Yes, Goldberg was much bigger than Taz, but in terms of how this mechanic has been laid out, that's neither here nor there: the point is that they could've simply given Taz a Goldberg-style run if they had really wanted to make his ECW character work - have him come in and beat jobbers and midcarders for a while, maybe even the odd "threat" angle (like when an authority character wants to make a feud rival's life difficult - "sure, you got a match, and it's against... Tazz!"). This way is actually better, becuse the more established he gets as a threat and the longer he's kept away from the main eventers, the more intrigued people get about how well he'd do against the big guns. Basic booking, done many times before - Warrior versus Hogan, Lesnar versus The Rock, Hogan versus The Rock. Yes, these are the much higher profile feuds, but the dynamic is similar.

 

I actually agree with that but my point was that eventually they'd have to put him in with a Main Eventer, and would have to keep protecting him or the gimmick would be screwed. Look at Wrath for an example: He got over squashing midcarders and jobbers but the second he lost to Kevin Nash the illusion was shattered and he became just another guy.

 

Basically, for a gimmick like that to work, you have to be prepared to put the wrestler over the entire roster and make him your top guy or it isn't worth doing.

[Dr Reefer]

He did well in ECW where Paul E was forced to make the best with the talent he had. In the WWF, his weaknesses were exposed. He was too short to be a main eventer and his work and gimmick wasn't suitable for working a small-man style. Can you imagine him going up against the likes of Undertaker and Kane? It'd look utterly ridiculous.

 

I agree with this.

 

Taz got over in ECW by killing guys, rarely selling and never losing clean. In the WWF, that gimmick would've worked against other midcarders but eventually they would have to have put him up against the top guys and then what? The gimmick would be fucked the moment anybody beat him cleanly, even someone like Undertaker or Austin, so they'd either have to continue protecting him against their actual top guys (which, as you say, would've been ridiculous) or kill the gimmick and render his mega push a complete waste of time.

 

Basically he was Kimbo Slice in EliteXC.

 

Sorry to quote so late in the thread, but I just read this.

 

I'm not entirely sure what would make this scenario unacceptable, given that this is basically Goldberg. Yes, Goldberg was much bigger than Taz, but in terms of how this mechanic has been laid out, that's neither here nor there: the point is that they could've simply given Taz a Goldberg-style run if they had really wanted to make his ECW character work - have him come in and beat jobbers and midcarders for a while, maybe even the odd "threat" angle (like when an authority character wants to make a feud rival's life difficult - "sure, you got a match, and it's against... Tazz!"). This way is actually better, becuse the more established he gets as a threat and the longer he's kept away from the main eventers, the more intrigued people get about how well he'd do against the big guns. Basic booking, done many times before - Warrior versus Hogan, Lesnar versus The Rock, Hogan versus The Rock. Yes, these are the much higher profile feuds, but the dynamic is similar.

 

I actually agree with that but my point was that eventually they'd have to put him in with a Main Eventer, and would have to keep protecting him or the gimmick would be screwed. Look at Wrath for an example: He got over squashing midcarders and jobbers but the second he lost to Kevin Nash the illusion was shattered and he became just another guy.

 

Basically, for a gimmick like that to work, you have to be prepared to put the wrestler over the entire roster and make him your top guy or it isn't worth doing.

 

Not really, you've already established him as double hard so you just have to have him go down swinging against someone like Undertaker. Book the match so Taker has to beat the shit out of him to get him to stay down. There has never been any shame in getting battered by Undertaker.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

What the fucks going on here? Two threads involving discussion about the merits of Wrath's WCW push? Maybe $tew was wrong about the death of the UKFF. The conversation is flowing.

[Happ Hazzard]

Taz was never booked as a small guy in ECW. His gimmick was not that of a small wrestler. In WWF he was a small wrestler.

 

I never rated Shane Douglas. His ECW promos are laughable when watched nowadays, his hard-man persona is so fake. He was at his best in 1992 in WCW when he teamed with Ricky Steamboat. After that it was downhill all the way.

[Carbomb]

Taz was never booked as a small guy in ECW. His gimmick was not that of a small wrestler. In WWF he was a small wrestler.

 

No, but he wasn't booked specifically as a "big" guy either, he was booked as a double-hard tough guy. He had the presence and look to be believable in that role, and the whole "suplex machine" deal meant that it was plausible he could take down guys bigger than himself, owing to suplexes being touted as the kind of move which takes anybody down through technique rather than brute strength. Taz was, in some way, an early MMA gimmick.

[Dirty Eddie]

Taz was never booked as a small guy in ECW. His gimmick was not that of a small wrestler. In WWF he was a small wrestler.

 

No, but he wasn't booked specifically as a "big" guy either, he was booked as a double-hard tough guy. He had the presence and look to be believable in that role, and the whole "suplex machine" deal meant that it was plausible he could take down guys bigger than himself, owing to suplexes being touted as the kind of move which takes anybody down through technique rather than brute strength. Taz was, in some way, an early MMA gimmick.

 

Just to add to that...

 

A one point ECW made a point of putting Taz in there with massive blokes, just to show that he could suplex them and choke them out. Bam Bam, that near 7ft UFC guy Paul Varelans (sp?), 911, Bubba Dudley etc...

 

They made a point of showing that size didn't matter to Taz, he'll choke out anybody.

[TheBigBoot]

Yeah, fair point about Benoit being a safer, proven worker. That still doesn't mean that Taz wouldn't have gotten to that point if they'd tried a bit more with him. You mention Jericho, he was another guy who "couldn't work" according to the WWF locker-room 'leaders'. But they stuck with him and it all came together.

 

Also Benoit had just come off a pretty big push in WCW. There's a reason he was signed for far more money than the rest of the Radicalz and that is that people high up in WWF obviously saw him as the star of the group and the one they were planning on pushing. So right off the bat someone at the top obviously saw him as something worth investing in. As far as his reputation goes Benoit was one of the most respected workers on the planet but even then for as great as he was there were still questions at first on whether he'd be able to 'adapt' to WWF style. The only reason those doubts didn't stick around longer was because he did adapt to it (just like he had everywhere else he went).

 

The list of guys who were successful elsewhere that were supposedly given the

[Magnum Milano]

The list of guys who were successful elsewhere that were supposedly given the

[Scorpion_Deathlock]

The list of guys who were successful elsewhere that were supposedly given the

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Goldberg was pretty much working the "WWF style" when he came to the WWF, so I dont know if he was told to changed his game up. His matches in late 2000 werent to dis-similar to his matches on Raw and PPV in 2003. And the Public Enemy were to busy being beaten until they couldnt walk back to the locker room to hear the pleas of road agents about their style.

[AshC]

Shane did play his part in a brilliant tag team rivalry in tandem with Rick Steamboat against the Hollywood Blondes. Some of their matches were a job to behold.

A hundred times this. One of the best tag series ever.