How good was I?

[fraserbee]

I thought Taz was pretty good in that he played his part well. From 1996 through to 1999 his ECW character was pretty believable (despite his size). In this period, he had quite a few very enjoyable matches and drew quite well by ECW's standards too. On this basis I would say he was quite good.

 

When he went to the WWF, he wasn't really given much to work with. He came in very strong with Kurt Angle and went on to have a pretty good match with HHH on Smackdown too (when he was ECW champion). After that his push dwindled, he stopped being a prominent character and by the looks of things, his heart completely went out of wrestling anyway. I don't think he can be judged on how good he was based on his his WWF time really because, after the first few months, neither the WWF nor Taz really seemed to want it to happen.

[unfitfinlay]

He did well in ECW where Paul E was forced to make the best with the talent he had. In the WWF, his weaknesses were exposed. He was too short to be a main eventer and his work and gimmick wasn't suitable for working a small-man style. Can you imagine him going up against the likes of Undertaker and Kane? It'd look utterly ridiculous.

 

I agree with this.

 

Taz got over in ECW by killing guys, rarely selling and never losing clean. In the WWF, that gimmick would've worked against other midcarders but eventually they would have to have put him up against the top guys and then what? The gimmick would be fucked the moment anybody beat him cleanly, even someone like Undertaker or Austin, so they'd either have to continue protecting him against their actual top guys (which, as you say, would've been ridiculous) or kill the gimmick and render his mega push a complete waste of time.

 

Basically he was Kimbo Slice in EliteXC.

[RJ Impact]

Taz was great on his debut I have it on my Ipod, he gets a great pop and its a fun little match.

 

He should have been in the mix with Benoit, Y2J and Angle at Mania he had a similar style and his height wouldnt have been an issue.

 

Getting Injured then coming back wearing joggers and feuding with JR & King was a mistake.

 

He didnt have to go against Taker, Kane, Show etc cos ofcourse he'd get battered (as most do), they were tons of guys his size to work with.

 

Stuff with Austin in the Alliance was really good and the crowd were getting behind him but I guess him vs Austin was never the plan to get over, just a side thing for them both.

[Scorpion_Deathlock]

I'll always have a soft spot for Taz because of my ECW love, but his reputation since ECW has been harmed. It seems that the majority of his fellow ECW workers didn't like him, and there's plenty of stories of how his tough guy persona was a bit of a joke, but besides that there's no denying that in ECW he was fucking awesome.

 

The WWF fucked it all up.

 

WWF fucked up big time. I've been watching all the ECW TV shows from 1996 & Taz is awesome. I remember watching WWF at the time when he made his debut and thinking that there was no way they could mess up with Taz. Of course looking back over the last 10 years it's quite clear that fucking up is what WWE is good at.

[d-d-d-dAz]

So, happily, this thread is sauntering along at a nice pace with the general consensus being split between Taz being misused by Conneticretins, or Taz being too small/unsafe to ever have kicked off properly in WWE.

 

That said, and certainly all taz related discussion can continue, I thought i'd add my #2 into the mix. None other than 'The Franchise' Shane Douglas. Another guy that I got into before I had internet, and who I got into through videotapes (in fact, my liking Shane Douglas came about as a bi-product of trying to find tapes with Taz on). I actually got so into Douglas at one point that the scrapbook I kept of pictures of moves i'd do when I was a wrestler (fuck off, yeah, I was like 10/11) was dominated by pictures of Shane-o hitting a ton of, admittedly, paint-by-numbers suplexes. He hit a beautiful fisherman, though.

 

Anyway, as is the trend here, here are some videos of The Franchise being awesome;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waBUA6Vfxt8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1oyu80MW1Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_T-6AFkXw...feature=related

 

...The following is a pretty awesome match, though its quite long. If you get an hour though, you should definitely give it a go. On the first vid, start it at 4.46, then just go from there; its from 'The Night The Line Was Crossed', and its Douglas vs. T. Funk vs. Sabu.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZgN61zX03o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZAlQNZlKX8...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IOxCPm5G7o...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htNam3lxjBM...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBeHmWQ-0rc...feature=related

 

Probably my favourite promo ever...

 

I know he got fat, old and vomited in the ring he was blowing out his arse that much but I'm sure back in the day he was pretty good. Wasn't he..?

[PowerButchi]

Not half as good as he thought he was.

[FLips]

Possibly my least favourite wrestler of all time. Can't think of the last time a match of his came on and I didn't skip it.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

A man of his time, who found his level in a small-time promotion. For all his bitching of not being used in WWF and in his first WCW stint, basically spent 3 years stealing $600,000 under a WCW contract with a massive gut. Then booked XPW into the ground (which takes some doing, considering how shite the promotion was originally). Would have made a class commentator though. TNA had him on the books during a period when they wanted to get rid of Don West. Dont know why they didnt just put him on the headset.

 

Now looks like Norman Pace.

[Gladstones Bitch]

My favourite Shane Douglas match was against Justin Credible @ Cyberslam 1999, what a great show that was as well. I'm not sure if it still holds up now but it was a great brawl from what I can remember and I see its on Youtube so I'm gonna check it out again now.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GELPUQje_oU...etailpage#t=69s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVV5zOKcG4o...feature=related

[d-d-d-dAz]

Personally, I like the ideas of gimmicks being elevated beyond just the one wrestler. I like that in storyline terms 'The Franchise' was willing to pass the torch, and have there be another Franchise; just like I enjoy the lineage of the 'Nature Boy' tag...

 

I think it'd be cool if they were to do something similar in todays wrestling, I think it'd go someway to cementing megastar status for someone if, for arguments sake, Triple H was to pass on the moniker 'The Game' on his way out.

[AJS269]

I think the one thing that is truely memorable about Shane Douglas is the time he refused the NWA title, it was basically the ECW's "Montreal Screwjob" (the moment where everything changed forever). Other than that a good he was a decent wrestler with good mike skills who was far too full of himself.

 

Taz was a great guy who was a bit like Samoa Joe is now, fantastic in the 3rd biggest US company but once he cracked the big two, poor booking lead to him losing his edge.

[Scorpion_Deathlock]

Shane Douglas is one of my favourite wrestler's ever. It's hard to fully understand the impact he had on pro wrestling unless you were around at the time in 1994 when "The Franchise" character really took off, he was a "real" person as opposed to the cartoon characters in WWF & the old men in WCW running through there book of promo cliches. In the ring he was tremendous, some people seem to judge him based on his later years but that's not really fair as his body was ravaged by injuries. In his prime he had some absolute belters, I'd recommend checking these out:-

 

3 way with Funk & Sabu at Night the Line was Crossed

v Marty Jannetty at Return of the Funker

v 2 Cold Scorpio at Matter of Respect 96

v Pitbull #2 Hardcore TV Oct '96 - the one where he attacks the injured neck of Pitbull #1 & causes a riot. Genuine Heel heat.

3 way with Dreamer & Sabu Hardcore TV Nov '97

v Taz at House Party 99

v Justin Credible at Cyberslam 99

 

 

Now, CUT THE FUCKING MUSIC.

[Dr Reefer]

Have him T-bone Suplex Viscera or Rikishi a few times and people would take him seriously as a threat.

 

Could Taz have been safe with that though? Bammer was a big bastard, but not compared to Big V.

 

 

I was just using them as an example of a couple of expendable WWE fatties around at the time. Any big lower mid card body would do. Just as long as you could establish that Taz was a double hard bastard who can lift anyone he wants to and thrown them around.

[Mark Out Media]

The main thing I notice now looking back at Douglas is how weak his punches looked. Ugh.

[Scott Malbranque]

Douglas was a magnificent heel on his day - and a decent wrestler too - when he wasn't on the mic bitching about other wrestlers who got better breaks than him.

I did like Douglas, and still enjoy watching some of his promos and matches, but for a long time he relied on burying talent who weren't even in the promotion he worked for, to get a cheap pop and/or heat...