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What/who do you miss in wrestling that you will never see again?


IANdrewDiceClay

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The WWE has no competition what so ever from anywhere or anyone TNA is awful. They can do what they please and if people don't like it they can either stop watching or carry on watching because they really have no place to turn.

 

This is wrong. Plenty of people enjoy TNA, such as myself. Yes, it's awful, but at the moment, I'm enjoying it more than WWE (although WWE have improved in terms of my tastes a little of late - I rather enjoyed Mania).

 

More importantly, though, I've been watching wrestling solid since I got back into it in '98, and it hasn't always been WWE, WCW or TNA. When one product's bad or unavailable, there are loads of others out there to choose from. When I was living in Japan, I watched All Japan. When I got sick of watching the US stuff, I was overjoyed to discover the FWA, and subsequently BritWres, for all its faults. I had my smarky phase of liking ROH, PWG and IWS, then realised I hated it when I got into DragonGate in 2004/5. During this time, I was watching WWF/E on and off, and since then, I've watched K-Dojo on a semi-regular basis, I've discovered PWT and downloaded a shitload of classic Memphis and Southern wrestling, I've bought WWE compilation DVDs, I've watch Muga World, Zero-One, TNA and even the odd Chikara and AAA.

 

There's plenty of footage out there of Our Great Sport. Even if you can't find anything current that you enjoy, I'll bet you a pound to a penny you could dig up a load of old stuff you've never seen before and enjoy the fuck out of it.

 

I used to enjoy watching TNA but what I said was the WWE has no competition which it doesn't. No one is even close in terms of ticket sales and revenue. WCW was good for the WWE it made it so much better but TNA are not even close to making the same impact against WWE as WCW did. No doubt there are some wrestling federations in Japan but they are not in competition with WWE. The main rival is TNA but they are not fit to lace WWE's boots at the minute.

 

That wasn't the point I was addressing; you said that if people didn't like it, the only thing they could do was stop watching because they had nothing else to watch. I'm saying that's not right - there are plenty of alternatives. The bit I quoted, I should've left out the first sentence.

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No because they are aimed at different fan's WWE is a pg audience that is where they are hoping to pick up the majority of their fans. UFC is aiming for the older fans 18+. It would be like saying Manchester United are in direct competition with the LA lakers or NY Yankees

 

Not this shit again, Jesus Christ.

 

PG audience, right. So of that PG universe, how many of the little buggers save up their pocket money every month to give mommy or daddy for the pay per view? Not bloody many, I bet. It's still the 18+ that actually buy the pay per views rather than just beg their parents to buy them John Cena's latest t-shirt.

 

As for UFC not being competition, it clearly clearly is. You can either look at how many millions watched wrestling on pay per view ten years ago compared to UFC, look at todays figures, spot a marked correlation between the former declining and the latter ascending and make the assumption that many wrestling fans switched over to MMA... or you can just visit the forums and find out from the horses mouth how many UFC fans used to be wrestling fans?? There are enough crossover fans that pro wrestling forums (like this one) have an MMA subforum or thread and that many of the pro wrestling magazines dedicate some coverage to MMA. Given this crossover market, it would be incredibly naive to assume that there are buyers who occasionally (due to their level of disposable income) have to make a choice between buying the WWE PPV or the UFC one, or that there are some dyed-in-the-wool fans of either that would buy the corresponding pay per view if it was made appealing enough, i.e. some pro wrestling fans I know that buy all of Lesnar's fights, or some wrestling fans that switched to UFC but would be tempted to buy a WWE show if they knew The Rock was back, and wrestling.

 

So, it's nothing like comparing Manchester United to the Lakers. I've yet to meet anyone either in real life or online that says "yeah, I used to watch the football every week but it went shit so I switched over to basketball." More to the point anyone who does watch either or both on tv doesn't have to stump up a pony every month to watch the pay per view.

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No because they are aimed at different fan's WWE is a pg audience that is where they are hoping to pick up the majority of their fans. UFC is aiming for the older fans 18+. It would be like saying Manchester United are in direct competition with the LA lakers or NY Yankees

 

Not this shit again, Jesus Christ.

 

PG audience, right. So of that PG universe, how many of the little buggers save up their pocket money every month to give mommy or daddy for the pay per view? Not bloody many, I bet. It's still the 18+ that actually buy the pay per views rather than just beg their parents to buy them John Cena's latest t-shirt.

 

As for UFC not being competition, it clearly clearly is. You can either look at how many millions watched wrestling on pay per view ten years ago compared to UFC, look at todays figures, spot a marked correlation between the former declining and the latter ascending and make the assumption that many wrestling fans switched over to MMA... or you can just visit the forums and find out from the horses mouth how many UFC fans used to be wrestling fans?? There are enough crossover fans that pro wrestling forums (like this one) have an MMA subforum or thread and that many of the pro wrestling magazines dedicate some coverage to MMA. Given this crossover market, it would be incredibly naive to assume that there are buyers who occasionally (due to their level of disposable income) have to make a choice between buying the WWE PPV or the UFC one, or that there are some dyed-in-the-wool fans of either that would buy the corresponding pay per view if it was made appealing enough, i.e. some pro wrestling fans I know that buy all of Lesnar's fights, or some wrestling fans that switched to UFC but would be tempted to buy a WWE show if they knew The Rock was back, and wrestling.

 

So, it's nothing like comparing Manchester United to the Lakers. I've yet to meet anyone either in real life or online that says "yeah, I used to watch the football every week but it went shit so I switched over to basketball." More to the point anyone who does watch either or both on tv doesn't have to stump up a pony every month to watch the pay per view.

 

November 12, 1993. It was started by Rorion Gracie (who's brother, Royce, won the first few tournaments) and Art Davie. Back then, they had a single elemination tournament format with no weight classes and very few restrictions, among them no biting, no gouging, and no groin shots, though this last rule was repealed after UFC 1. Eventually, due to political pressure, the UFC began adding more restrictive rules and separating fighters by weight. The rules we have today were created by the New Jersey State Athletic Commission in 2000.

 

When it was started I really don't think that Gracie thought I want to be bigger than WWF that is my ultimate goal. Yes fans have crossed over, when your still young enough to think WWE is real your going to watch WWE. As some fans get older and the realistic factor wears off UFC is the perfect answer. I wouldn't let my kids watch UFC as it is a lot more violent than WWE. I watch UFC I used to watch it alot but have lost interest in it in the last year or so. I have watched WWE for 20 plus years and have always enjoyed it. Everyone is different and for some the real vs fake fighting as they get older appeals more to them.

 

They are not in direct competition with each other Vince doesn't sweat what UFC is doing he is now in the entertainment business and is distancing his company from the term wrestling. If he wanted to go in to competition with UFC he would bring back an attitude type era with blood, hardcore fights etc. He is targetting youngsters because if your kid asks you to buy them a John Cena T-Shirt you probably will, same with PPV's kids are easily sucked in and can ask their Mum's and Dad's for WWE related things. UFC is aimed at adults and WWE is aimed at kids and apart from monthly PPV's they don't do similar things do they? The fighting is different the rules are different the crowds are different.

 

You can harp on the fact some people cross over and cross back over for The Rock and Brock Lesnar but surley that is curiosity. If the people tuned back over for The Rock would they not have been teenagers in the The Rock's main run and then just grew out of wrestling and then thought they would see if he stil had it. Wrestling fans switching over to watch Brock is probably out curiosity to see how he is doing.

 

 

Anyway I am Rambling I can't see where they are in competition with each other you got any facts not just the usual shit of they sold this many PPV's and WWE only managed this. Hows the UFC's weekly TV show doing better than the WWE's longest running one ever? Who sells more merchandise? Who are the more known stars? The UFC is having a boom period a new sport that is exciting to watch and will attract fans WWE is still not doing bad even in this PG era that is turning off the older fans.

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I miss characters. I think that's part of the reason I drifted and now have come back slightly. You knew what Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH and Undertaker were all about. The only person now who has it is Cena, and even that is getting a little generic with the Superman schtick. What the fuck are Ziggler, McIntyre or Morrison about? Look at the triple threat main event at Extreme Rules. We have R-Truth, who all we know is that he raps and does spinny moves. All Miz does is shout about how awesome he is (although the Mania video package was amazing). It's hard to care when the majority of the roster are bland wrestlers, faceless nobodies.

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I miss characters. I think that's part of the reason I drifted and now have come back slightly. You knew what Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH and Undertaker were all about. The only person now who has it is Cena, and even that is getting a little generic with the Superman schtick. What the fuck are Ziggler, McIntyre or Morrison about? Look at the triple threat main event at Extreme Rules. We have R-Truth, who all we know is that he raps and does spinny moves. All Miz does is shout about how awesome he is (although the Mania video package was amazing). It's hard to care when the majority of the roster are bland wrestlers, faceless nobodies.

 

I still disagree with this. Cody Rhodes was an arrogant pretty-boy, now a psychotic, neurotic pretty-boy who thinks he's scarred. Sin Cara is a high-flyer who wants to have a go at the big lads. Rey Mysterio is a high-flying underdog. Great Khali's a giant Indian Lothario. Kozlov's a scary Russian nutcase. Santino's a silly-arse, Italian nutcase. Kofi Kingston loves Jamaica, despite being Ghanaian. Del Rio's an arrogant rich man based on Ricardo Montalban. Zack Ryder's a New Jersey chav. Jack Swagger's a frat-jock douchebag. Undertaker's, well, the Undertaker. Triple H doesn't need to be a character any more, being an evolved gimmick, same with Orton. Punk's a straight-edge cult-leader. Sheamus is a big Irish bastard. Mason Ryan is a big Welsh bastard. Wade Barrett is a big English bastard. Drew McIntyre's a biggish Scottish bastard.

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I miss characters. I think that's part of the reason I drifted and now have come back slightly. You knew what Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH and Undertaker were all about. The only person now who has it is Cena, and even that is getting a little generic with the Superman schtick. What the fuck are Ziggler, McIntyre or Morrison about? Look at the triple threat main event at Extreme Rules. We have R-Truth, who all we know is that he raps and does spinny moves. All Miz does is shout about how awesome he is (although the Mania video package was amazing). It's hard to care when the majority of the roster are bland wrestlers, faceless nobodies.

 

I still disagree with this. Cody Rhodes was an arrogant pretty-boy, now a psychotic, neurotic pretty-boy who thinks he's scarred. Sin Cara is a high-flyer who wants to have a go at the big lads. Rey Mysterio is a high-flying underdog. Great Khali's a giant Indian Lothario. Kozlov's a scary Russian nutcase. Santino's a silly-arse, Italian nutcase. Kofi Kingston loves Jamaica, despite being Ghanaian. Del Rio's an arrogant rich man based on Ricardo Montalban. Zack Ryder's a New Jersey chav. Jack Swagger's a frat-jock douchebag. Undertaker's, well, the Undertaker. Triple H doesn't need to be a character any more, being an evolved gimmick, same with Orton. Punk's a straight-edge cult-leader. Sheamus is a big Irish bastard. Mason Ryan is a big Welsh bastard. Wade Barrett is a big English bastard. Drew McIntyre's a biggish Scottish bastard.

Being a "big bastard" from a certain place is a pretty paper-thin character though isn't it?

 

Kofi Kingston being a Ghana native who loves Jamaica, likewise.

 

Are you sure your post was supposed to be arguing against Shane O Mac's statement?

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I miss characters. I think that's part of the reason I drifted and now have come back slightly. You knew what Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH and Undertaker were all about. The only person now who has it is Cena, and even that is getting a little generic with the Superman schtick. What the fuck are Ziggler, McIntyre or Morrison about? Look at the triple threat main event at Extreme Rules. We have R-Truth, who all we know is that he raps and does spinny moves. All Miz does is shout about how awesome he is (although the Mania video package was amazing). It's hard to care when the majority of the roster are bland wrestlers, faceless nobodies.

 

I still disagree with this. Cody Rhodes was an arrogant pretty-boy, now a psychotic, neurotic pretty-boy who thinks he's scarred. Sin Cara is a high-flyer who wants to have a go at the big lads. Rey Mysterio is a high-flying underdog. Great Khali's a giant Indian Lothario. Kozlov's a scary Russian nutcase. Santino's a silly-arse, Italian nutcase. Kofi Kingston loves Jamaica, despite being Ghanaian. Del Rio's an arrogant rich man based on Ricardo Montalban. Zack Ryder's a New Jersey chav. Jack Swagger's a frat-jock douchebag. Undertaker's, well, the Undertaker. Triple H doesn't need to be a character any more, being an evolved gimmick, same with Orton. Punk's a straight-edge cult-leader. Sheamus is a big Irish bastard. Mason Ryan is a big Welsh bastard. Wade Barrett is a big English bastard. Drew McIntyre's a biggish Scottish bastard.

Cody Rhodes is one of the few examples of a good character in WWE, hence why I excluded him from the list. Del Rio has a character, but it's basically a JBL rehash (the line about Ricardo Montalban, I don't know who that is, did you just make that analysis yourself?). Taker and HHH are from a past era, and are on WWE programming sporadically nowadays. The rest of the wrestlers (or entertainers) mentioned, how many of them exhibit any of those characteristics through promos, mannerisms, or most importantly, through their matches? Austin was a rough-house brawler that went in line with his Texas red-neck persona. Rock had an arrogant flourish in his moves befitting his Great One mantra. Triple H wrestled a calculated style befitting a Cerebral Assassin, and of course the Undertaker has the character/wrestler synergy down to a tee.

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I miss characters. I think that's part of the reason I drifted and now have come back slightly. You knew what Austin, Rock, Foley, HHH and Undertaker were all about. The only person now who has it is Cena, and even that is getting a little generic with the Superman schtick. What the fuck are Ziggler, McIntyre or Morrison about? Look at the triple threat main event at Extreme Rules. We have R-Truth, who all we know is that he raps and does spinny moves. All Miz does is shout about how awesome he is (although the Mania video package was amazing). It's hard to care when the majority of the roster are bland wrestlers, faceless nobodies.

 

I still disagree with this. Cody Rhodes was an arrogant pretty-boy, now a psychotic, neurotic pretty-boy who thinks he's scarred. Sin Cara is a high-flyer who wants to have a go at the big lads. Rey Mysterio is a high-flying underdog. Great Khali's a giant Indian Lothario. Kozlov's a scary Russian nutcase. Santino's a silly-arse, Italian nutcase. Kofi Kingston loves Jamaica, despite being Ghanaian. Del Rio's an arrogant rich man based on Ricardo Montalban. Zack Ryder's a New Jersey chav. Jack Swagger's a frat-jock douchebag. Undertaker's, well, the Undertaker. Triple H doesn't need to be a character any more, being an evolved gimmick, same with Orton. Punk's a straight-edge cult-leader. Sheamus is a big Irish bastard. Mason Ryan is a big Welsh bastard. Wade Barrett is a big English bastard. Drew McIntyre's a biggish Scottish bastard.

Being a "big bastard" from a certain place is a pretty paper-thin character though isn't it?

 

Kofi Kingston being a Ghana native who loves Jamaica, likewise.

 

Are you sure your post was supposed to be arguing against Shane O Mac's statement?

 

For the most part of those last ones, I was being facetious, but keep in mind nationality has often been a gimmick in itself in WWE, certainly in the case of Sheamus, if not the others (though Ryan seems to have turned being Welsh into a gimmick by speaking it).

 

Cody Rhodes is one of the few examples of a good character in WWE, hence why I excluded him from the list. Del Rio has a character, but it's basically a JBL rehash (the line about Ricardo Montalban, I don't know who that is, did you just make that analysis yourself?). Taker and HHH are from a past era, and are on WWE programming sporadically nowadays. The rest of the wrestlers (or entertainers) mentioned, how many of them exhibit any of those characteristics through promos, mannerisms, or most importantly, through their matches? Austin was a rough-house brawler that went in line with his Texas red-neck persona. Rock had an arrogant flourish in his moves befitting his Great One mantra. Triple H wrestled a calculated style befitting a Cerebral Assassin, and of course the Undertaker has the character/wrestler synergy down to a tee.

 

Yeah, the Ricardo Montalban comparison was mine (he was the actor who played Khan in Star Trek II, but he was a Latin actor famous for a lot of things, look him up on Youtube), to be fair - it's just that, all through those vignettes, I kept expecting him to finish them by taking a spoonful of whatever dish was on the table and say "Deh-lee-shouss!" But even if he is a JBL rehash, it's still a strong character - let's not forget JBL was a rehash of Ted DiBiase Sr.

 

Kofi Kingston, we've seen it in his gimmick from day one, with his look and his music. But it's difficult to play in pro-wrestling panto fashion a Jamaican, or someone who likes Jamaica, without certain, illegal elements, I think.

 

CM Punk did the whole straight-edge thing fine, with his wrist-tapes and his overal "sports" demeanour. As for the cult-leader thing, well, his Charles Manson-ish look spoke for itself, I feel.

 

Jack Swagger is a perfect example of someone who plays his gimmick - comes out in amateur singlet, behaves like a git, does press-ups at random points to show off his sporting prowess like a jock, beats his chest like a fratboy pissing about.

 

Zack Ryder - I'm a bit surprised you don't think he's a character, given how much effort he puts into it.

 

Sin Cara - we've not seen much of him, but he's colourful, athletic, and from what we've seen of him thus far, I'm getting the impression he likes to have a go at the big guys.

 

Rey Mysterio - again, like Sin Cara, though less of a Scrappy Doo. He's always been colourful and vivid.

 

Santino - between his stereotypical Italian accent and comedy moments, not to mention The Cobra, how can you not think this guy's a character?

 

Kozlov - not many people you can say this about, but this guy LOOKS Russian. Seriously, he looks ex-KGB experimental soldier. And whilst it's difficult for him to pull off a Russian gimmick without doing the Cossack dance, I'd say he pulls off the nasty bastard gimmick well.

 

Khali - speaking Hindi, coming out to Bollywood music, snogging fat birds in the audience on camera - pretty gimmicky, I'd say. And that's ignoring his size.

 

Also forgot: Ted DiBiase Jr. Arrogant, spoilt, rich boy. Basically the Million Dollar Man's Son. He's not very good, but he's got an obvious gimmick.

 

R-Truth's got a character, he's just a bit shite really.

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I noticed on the post-Mania RAW where Punk was tagging with Cody how fantastic he is at getting his gimmick across in the ring. There was some great subtleties in the way that he was clearly in charge of Cody without anything needing to be said, and Cody played the pitbull well. They were great together.

 

It's shit like that that really makes the gimmick. Not wrist tape and a haircut. The guy really gets it..

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I noticed on the post-Mania RAW where Punk was tagging with Cody how fantastic he is at getting his gimmick across in the ring. There was some great subtleties in the way that he was clearly in charge of Cody without anything needing to be said, and Cody played the pitbull well. They were great together.

 

It's shit like that that really makes the gimmick. Not wrist tape and a haircut. The guy really gets it..

 

I agree 100%. I was just trying to point out the things that you see on first glance, before the match starts.

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Cody Rhodes is one of the few examples of a good character in WWE, hence why I excluded him from the list. Del Rio has a character, but it's basically a JBL rehash (the line about Ricardo Montalban, I don't know who that is, did you just make that analysis yourself?). Taker and HHH are from a past era, and are on WWE programming sporadically nowadays. The rest of the wrestlers (or entertainers) mentioned, how many of them exhibit any of those characteristics through promos, mannerisms, or most importantly, through their matches? Austin was a rough-house brawler that went in line with his Texas red-neck persona. Rock had an arrogant flourish in his moves befitting his Great One mantra. Triple H wrestled a calculated style befitting a Cerebral Assassin, and of course the Undertaker has the character/wrestler synergy down to a tee.

 

Yeah, the Ricardo Montalban comparison was mine (he was the actor who played Khan in Star Trek II, but he was a Latin actor famous for a lot of things, look him up on Youtube), to be fair - it's just that, all through those vignettes, I kept expecting him to finish them by taking a spoonful of whatever dish was on the table and say "Deh-lee-shouss!" But even if he is a JBL rehash, it's still a strong character - let's not forget JBL was a rehash of Ted DiBiase Sr.

 

Kofi Kingston, we've seen it in his gimmick from day one, with his look and his music. But it's difficult to play in pro-wrestling panto fashion a Jamaican, or someone who likes Jamaica, without certain, illegal elements, I think.

 

CM Punk did the whole straight-edge thing fine, with his wrist-tapes and his overal "sports" demeanour. As for the cult-leader thing, well, his Charles Manson-ish look spoke for itself, I feel.

 

Jack Swagger is a perfect example of someone who plays his gimmick - comes out in amateur singlet, behaves like a git, does press-ups at random points to show off his sporting prowess like a jock, beats his chest like a fratboy pissing about.

 

Zack Ryder - I'm a bit surprised you don't think he's a character, given how much effort he puts into it.

 

Sin Cara - we've not seen much of him, but he's colourful, athletic, and from what we've seen of him thus far, I'm getting the impression he likes to have a go at the big guys.

 

Rey Mysterio - again, like Sin Cara, though less of a Scrappy Doo. He's always been colourful and vivid.

 

Santino - between his stereotypical Italian accent and comedy moments, not to mention The Cobra, how can you not think this guy's a character?

 

Kozlov - not many people you can say this about, but this guy LOOKS Russian. Seriously, he looks ex-KGB experimental soldier. And whilst it's difficult for him to pull off a Russian gimmick without doing the Cossack dance, I'd say he pulls off the nasty bastard gimmick well.

 

Khali - speaking Hindi, coming out to Bollywood music, snogging fat birds in the audience on camera - pretty gimmicky, I'd say. And that's ignoring his size.

 

Also forgot: Ted DiBiase Jr. Arrogant, spoilt, rich boy. Basically the Million Dollar Man's Son. He's not very good, but he's got an obvious gimmick.

 

R-Truth's got a character, he's just a bit shite really.

Hard to dispute those points, but probably the main reason why I say I miss characters is because WWE doesn't really feature them. Why are most of the guys with vibrant characters limited to Superstars? Rey has done exactly the same thing for years, much like Cena, and WWE go hot and cold with featuring Santino and Swagger. Punk's SxE gimmick hasn't been touched on really since the SES, a fan who started a year ago wouldn't really see that aspect of the gimmick.

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I can't decide if I miss the cartoonish gimmicks of the WWF era. When amongst many many others you had a guy called Tugboat who dressed as a sailor for no apparent reason, you had a clown, a King, a Native American, a millionaire, a prison warden, a model, a Barbarian (and a Warlord whatever one of them is) a matador, 2 guys who like to paint each other's faces and wear S&M gear oh and a Genius :)

 

Basically everyone below main event status had to have a silly gimmick back then...but surely even now there are still Elvis impersonators or Repo Men wanting to be wrestlers?

 

Then again I did see a Britwres guy on TV in a butchers apron...for no apparent reason. Then again i'm sure people will have much dumber stuff they have seen at shows.

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