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Raw Discussion thread 21/03 *Spoilers*


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Quick question. I thought there was to be no physicality between Lawler and Cole otherwise they would be suspended. Did this rule only apply to Lawler or did they just forget about it when getting Cole to put the ankle lock on Lawler?

 

Cole announced a couple of weeks ago that it only applied to Lawler attacking Cole.

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I would definately agree that they are trying to force a situation to rival the natural epicness of taker/HBK 1 and 2, however that said I still think it is a hot match up that has the potential to steal the show. The thing is HBK/Taker (and even mroeso its sequel) developed naturally whereas this match is basically them going "**** we need a big match for mania and , on paper, we dont have one" and thus they have had to manufacture one with the best fit they feel they have. The best fit they actually have is Cena vs Taker but for whatever reason they didnt go in that direction this year.

 

I don't blame them particularly for being in that situation. Yes they haven't built up new stars as well as they could and should have but I also disagree with the notion that they haven't built anyone. Miz, Morrisson (despite his scaled back status in the last month or so), dolph and cody have all progressed significantly in stature since last year and Barrett and Del Rio have emerged as major players so I think some of the negativity is, at times, a little much. It is difficult to balance maintaining the products appeal whilst also successfully pushing through the new guys. Personally I don't think they are doing a bad job.

 

Mania needs to be booked correctly though. I don't think Cody needs to win, but he needs to have a strong match with Rey and look good in the process. Del Rio will probably win and Miz- win or lose is being elevated by his current position. Jomo, Dolph, Sheamus, Bryan, Barrett etc should get renewed focus after mania once Rock/HHH/Taker/Snooki are gone. If they play it right then by next year you could have a very strong looking roster when you consider that Sin Cara will debut and Tyler Black/Seth Rollins will probably get in the mix as well.

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Quick question. I thought there was to be no physicality between Lawler and Cole otherwise they would be suspended. Did this rule only apply to Lawler or did they just forget about it when getting Cole to put the ankle lock on Lawler?

 

Cole announced a couple of weeks ago that it only applied to Lawler attacking Cole.

I didn't think that rule had been mentioned since the WrestleMania match was made.

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I would definately agree that they are trying to force a situation to rival the natural epicness of taker/HBK 1 and 2, however that said I still think it is a hot match up that has the potential to steal the show. The thing is HBK/Taker (and even mroeso its sequel) developed naturally whereas this match is basically them going "**** we need a big match for mania and , on paper, we dont have one" and thus they have had to manufacture one with the best fit they feel they have. The best fit they actually have is Cena vs Taker but for whatever reason they didnt go in that direction this year.

 

I don't blame them particularly for being in that situation. Yes they haven't built up new stars as well as they could and should have but I also disagree with the notion that they haven't built anyone. Miz, Morrisson (despite his scaled back status in the last month or so), dolph and cody have all progressed significantly in stature since last year and Barrett and Del Rio have emerged as major players so I think some of the negativity is, at times, a little much. It is difficult to balance maintaining the products appeal whilst also successfully pushing through the new guys. Personally I don't think they are doing a bad job.

 

Mania needs to be booked correctly though. I don't think Cody needs to win, but he needs to have a strong match with Rey and look good in the process. Del Rio will probably win and Miz- win or lose is being elevated by his current position. Jomo, Dolph, Sheamus, Bryan, Barrett etc should get renewed focus after mania once Rock/HHH/Taker/Snooki are gone. If they play it right then by next year you could have a very strong looking roster when you consider that Sin Cara will debut and Tyler Black/Seth Rollins will probably get in the mix as well.

 

He's getting buried next to Cena and The Rock :cry:

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Does anyone think Triple H will be the one to go over and end the streak? After only a few weeks of build up and with barely any really story between the two of them yet? I just dont see it and I just think HHH wants to be a part of the Undi love that HBK has built over the last two years, unfortunately the match will be nowhere near those levels of greatness.

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I'm not really feeling the Rock's return as much as I thought I would. Maybe it'll be different at WrestleMania, but his lack of appearances (and the pre-tapes not really being as good as his return promo) and the general confusion about what he's even doing at WrestleMania or who he hates or if he'll give Cena a kiss on the cheek or not has got me not caring about this feud as much as I thought I would. Its like the Bret vs Vince thing last year, where they dont seem to know which direction they want to go in because of the main character's (Rock/Bret) limitations in the angle. But saying that, we have a Raw and the event itself to happen yet, so I'm not judging just until after that happens. The Miz has been treated like an after thought for so long, it comes across as hoaky at the minute that he's suddenly being taken serious by Cena and The Rock and Cena has been buried and been given such a shit comeback in his verbals with Rocky that he looks piss poor compared to the real star of the feud who doesnt turn up. Its like Hogan in 1997, where he wouldnt turn up for Nitros even though he had a title defence at a PPV.

 

Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler on the otherhand keeps kicking my arse as far as viewing it. I cant predict whats going to happen next in this one. Lawler and Cole out perform everyone (including the Rock) on the show by a country mile and the writing is so top notch, its the reason I'm watching Raw at the minute.

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I'm not really feeling the Rock's return as much as I thought I would. Maybe it'll be different at WrestleMania, but his lack of appearances (and the pre-tapes not really being as good as his return promo) and the general confusion about what he's even doing at WrestleMania or who he hates or if he'll give Cena a kiss on the cheek or not has got me not caring about this feud as much as I thought I would. Its like the Bret vs Vince thing last year, where they dont seem to know which direction they want to go in because of the main character's (Rock/Bret) limitations in the angle. But saying that, we have a Raw and the event itself to happen yet, so I'm not judging just until after that happens. The Miz has been treated like an after thought as far as I can see and Cena has been buried and been given such a shit comeback he looks piss poor compared to the real star of the feud who doesnt turn up. Its like Hogan in 1997, where he wouldnt turn up for Nitros even though he had a title defence at a PPV.

 

Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler on the otherhand gets kicking my arse as far as viewing it. I cant predict whats going to happen next in this one. Lawler and Cole out perform everyone (including the Rock) on the show by a country mile and the writing is so top notch, its the reason I'm watching Raw at the minute.

 

For the first time ever in wrestling, even from when I was 11 and was into The Rock and Austin and whoever, do I legit want to see the heel get his skull smashed in. Cole and Lawler will be a show stealer I reckon. I think Stone Cold being there might take away from it though.

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Does anyone think Triple H will be the one to go over and end the streak? After only a few weeks of build up and with barely any really story between the two of them yet? I just dont see it and I just think HHH wants to be a part of the Undi love that HBK has built over the last two years, unfortunately the match will be nowhere near those levels of greatness.

 

Not a chance.

 

There's no denying that the match will be an absolute masterclass but I don't see how or why Hunter would win. If Undertaker gets the win here then it puts him just one more 'Mania win short of the magic 20-0 record, two decades worth of undefeated matches at the grandest stage of them all.

 

However, I will be completely behind Undertaker throughout this one. It's very rare that you truly care about an outcome anymore but 'Taker/Hunter is definitely going to be one of those.

 

One little idea I have been thinking about is... - Triple H has now Pedigree'd two wrestlers through the announce table during the build up. Does anybody else think that they may play a 'worked shoot' angle during the match where Triple H hits the Pedigree on 'Taker through the table and Hunter sells his leg as though his quad has blown again? The ref could then do the 'X', and when Undertaker recovers he rolls a heavily limping Triple H into the ring, hits a tombstone and everybody thinks that they've had to cut to an early finish because of the injury, but Triple H gets his shoulder up at 2 and 7/8th?

 

Edit: ^ King Pitcos, I'm pretty sure it has been but don't take it as being 100% because I may be wrong.

 

^^ Ian_hitmanhart and Triple A, I agree with you completely there. Lawler's facial expressions alone have been enough to make you believe that he genuinely wants to kick Cole's head in and I can't wait for him to (hopefully) do so.

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Can anyone see Eve challenging Cole to a match this week, Cole wins the divas title and renames it the Inter-gender title? Or would this be lost on so many people it's such a stupid idea?

 

As far as Triple H / Taker goes I'm guessing the die or die trying lines will lead to the loser, presumably Triple H, taking a huge step back, without actually officially retiring.

 

I didn't want to see MITB this year, but I'm quite disappointed that they haven't replaced it with some other spotfest.

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I didn't want to see MITB this year, but I'm quite disappointed that they haven't replaced it with some other spotfest.

 

I agree. I was convinced a few weeks ago that we'd see the US & IC titles above a ladder and all the MITB-level guys (Bryan, Drew, Dolph, JoMo) would be thrown in, but unfortunately not.

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No people go to wrestling and they are given the option or at least presented with the guys they should boo and cheer. Children and women love Cena heard it a million times. This maybe true or maybe it's just because they have not grown up and thought they are cool enough to boo the top face for the last seven years. The idiots who do it are blokes old enough to think they are being cool with their mates.

 

Same Idiots who cheered Orton when he was an out and out heel.

 

Same Idiots who cheered Punk against Cena although Punk was being a cunt.

 

I know wrestling has changed a lot and it is not the same as it was, but back in the day the face and heel got the respect they deserved from the crowd which they don't really get any more.

 

Balls. Crowds have been turning faces and heels for years. Hogan turned because he was getting heel reactions, as did Bret, while Austin turned because he was getting face reactions. If people are booing Cena, it's because they think he's unlikable and want to boo him. Just because you like him doesn't mean everyone else has to; seeing as pretty much most other heels get universal heel reactions from the crowd, to claim the only people who boo Cena are guys who "have not grown up yet" is not just laughable (especially given Cena's childish sense of humour), it's incorrect.

 

Fair enough, but is Cena's booing not different. It is not like he is actually getting heel heat just some boo's no one is really turning on him. Yeah the demographic age group from 18-35 does boo him or the majority but it's not like real heat. He got a massive pop at Royal Rumble when he came back followed by boo's. The only place he ever got proper heel heat was ECW one night stand. But he was against their boy RVD and it was expected, it added to the match as well. His heat, It's not like the Bret and Austin double turn, It's not like the Hogan turn.

 

He has been getting booed on and off for a good 5 years at least. They have been acknowledging these boo's several times but it is now just part of his character. If and when he turns heel will these same people cheer him? Or will he become the most hated heel ever? If I go to a wrestling show out of respect to the character they are playing heel/face I will cheer and boo accordingly not because I am a puppet on a string, I do it because it probably pisses the heel off to get cheered and the face doesn't want to get booed. I wouldn't expect everyone to do the same thing but fans of wrestling are much different now than they were 10-15 years ago. Some do think they are being clever/cool/smart what ever you want to call.

 

It's different if you down right dislike a wrestler though for instance; I hate Mysterio if I see him wrestle live though I don't boo him I just do nothing, no cheering for the heel or anything like. I guess every fan is different and have the right to cheer or boo anyone if they have paid the ticket to get in.

 

Also I can't remember which one of you said Cena is my boy. Fuck Cena I hope The Miz puts his head through the ring steps.

 

I think this came from my rant the time I had a go at The Rock, I still don't like The Rock though. I always prefered Austin/Triple H. The fact he is back for Wrestlemania does nothing for me as I never really liked him.

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