Working conditions in TNA

[PowerButchi]

It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.

 

 

Fair enough in the case of Devine, but was Jonny Fairplay really worth more than Kong, Gail Kim, Samoa Joe, who was going to leave after tna didn't want to pay him more than $800 a match, Daniels, AJ Styles and a whole bunch of other people he got paid way more than? I think Jenna Morasca even got more than Fairplay did and what did she mean to ratings?

 

Best you can say is, tna have their priorities way the fuck out of wack.

 

I think Gail Kim has shown her worth in WWE, and it's next to fuck all. TNA don't have their priorities out of wack, they want exposure. After Kong and Kim both left the company the other girls in the quarterly after the top of the hour got the highest ratings. You're talking tired stuff from this time in 2010. If you go to bed you might wake up this year and see what's happening.

 

And also, using Christopher The Walking Computer Game Moveset Daniels as an example of anything decent is flawed in so many ways it beggars belief. He's touching 40 so he's no new talent, he's a dullard as regards character, and he wrestles like a CAW on Smackdown vs Raw, only he sells less.

 

Do you want six sides?

[Deaq]

I think Gail Kim has shown her worth in WWE, and it's next to fuck all. TNA don't have their priorities out of wack, they want exposure. After Kong and Kim both left the company the other girls in the quarterly after the top of the hour got the highest ratings. You're talking tired stuff from this time in 2010. If you go to bed you might wake up this year and see what's happening.

 

Only reason Gail Kim has done fuck all so far in WWE is nothing to do with her. Its down to WWE not using her in anything really, When they do they shift the story to some other diva who is more favored like Eve. If WWE don't get behind you then you will tank no matter how good you are.

[PowerButchi]

No, it's because she's been exposed as shite in my opinion. True talent in WWE has always rose above their style.

[Dirty Eddie]

No, it's because she's been exposed as shite in my opinion. True talent in WWE has always rose above their style.

 

I disagree with your opinion of Gail.

 

I'm a long fucking way from being a fan of women's wrestling in general (especially mainstream US stuff), but it's clear as day that when Gail was given a decent opponent and time to develop both a story and longer matches, she did really well in TNA. When given 3 minutes to job to Alicia Fox in WWE she looks worthless. Hardly surprising is it.

 

The members of kai en tai were very talented cruiserweights, but they became nothing-happening, comedy jobbers in WWE. It's almost entirely down to how WWE decides to present you. These days more than ever before.

[PowerButchi]

I disagree with that, because Taka got over in 97-98 in spite of being neutered from his Japanese style, as did Sho Funaki in the early C21st. And Taka vs HHH was amazing. He worked in the WWF style and it was superb. It was storytelling. If you are a quality wrestler, you can work to any style.

[Dirty Eddie]

I disagree with that, because Taka got over in 97-98 in spite of being neutered from his Japanese style, as did Sho Funaki in the early C21st. And Taka vs HHH was amazing. He worked in the WWF style and it was superb. It was storytelling. If you are a quality wrestler, you can work to any style.

 

Ah come on now....

 

Taka was chosen as the golden boy for a new division. He was fed all the cruisers they had under contract and an assortment of Lucha guys brought in to put him over. He was also allowed to do most of his high-flying offensive moves (like the no-hands springboard plancha, a move never seen in the WWF before). He got the rub from being in a surprisingly competitive match with a genuine main event talent.

 

They put Taka over super strong, but then when they got bored of him and the division, he became a jobber. No amount of skill or talent stopped him from becoming a jobber when they started jobbing him out to everyone and sticking him in 3 minute matches (that he lost).

 

At what point exactly (since her return) has Gail been made the centerpiece of the women's division, being fed talent who'd put her over?

 

At what point has a female talent (on the level of a women's division equivalent of Triple H) made her look like a million bucks in a super-competitive match?

 

Right, never.

 

They've given her nothing since she returned. Barely a single reason for anyone to give a shit, nor a match that has gone past 5 minutes.

[Deaq]

No, it's because she's been exposed as shite in my opinion. True talent in WWE has always rose above their style.

 

How did Barry Windham do in his last WWE run? are you saying it was his fault? Was it all Vader fault he bombed so bad also? I guess the whole invasion angle was shit due to the wrestlers then nothing to do with the way it was booked then?

 

True talent in WWE can be totally missed if your never allowed to show it.

 

I disagree with that, because Taka got over in 97-98 in spite of being neutered from his Japanese style, as did Sho Funaki in the early C21st. And Taka vs HHH was amazing. He worked in the WWF style and it was superb. It was storytelling. If you are a quality wrestler, you can work to any style.

 

Taka vs HHH was booked to be amazing. Thats my point, you could have took any jobber off the card and gave him the same role with the APA and the other situations vs HHH and you would have had the same out come. The only other time they got over after that was when WWE allowed them to have the mic and do the whole "EVIL" thing. WWE allowed them to look good the times you pointed out.

[PowerButchi]

I disagree with that, because Taka got over in 97-98 in spite of being neutered from his Japanese style, as did Sho Funaki in the early C21st. And Taka vs HHH was amazing. He worked in the WWF style and it was superb. It was storytelling. If you are a quality wrestler, you can work to any style.

 

Ah come on now....

 

Taka was chosen as the golden boy for a new division. He was fed all the cruisers they had under contract and an assortment of Lucha guys brought in to put him over. He was also allowed to do most of his high-flying offensive moves (like the no-hands springboard plancha, a move never seen in the WWF before). He got the rub from being in a surprisingly competitive match with a genuine main event talent.

 

They put Taka over super strong, but then when they got bored of him and the division, he became a jobber. No amount of skill or talent stopped him from becoming a jobber when they started jobbing him out to everyone and sticking him in 3 minute matches (that he lost).

 

At what point exactly (since her return) has Gail been made the centerpiece of the women's division, being fed talent who'd put her over?

 

At what point has a female talent (on the level of a women's division equivalent of Triple H) made her look like a million bucks in a super-competitive match?

 

Right, never.

 

They've given her nothing since she returned. Barely a single reason for anyone to give a shit, nor a match that has gone past 5 minutes.

 

And Taka still shone when he was being buried. Whereas Gail Kim has been the lesser part of some god awful matches. If Gail Kim was so great as people touted, surely by now she'd have shown a glimpse of that, because I can't think of a single example of her looking anything near half decent since moving to New York.

 

No, it's because she's been exposed as shite in my opinion. True talent in WWE has always rose above their style.

 

How did Barry Windham do in his last WWE run? are you saying it was his fault? Was it all Vader fault he bombed so bad also? I guess the whole invasion angle was shit due to the wrestlers then nothing to do with the way it was booked then?

 

True talent in WWE can be totally missed if your never allowed to show it.

 

You mean really really fat Barry Windham who'd been past it since 1994? Of course it is, you mental.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

How did Barry Windham do in his last WWE run? are you saying it was his fault? Was it all Vader fault he bombed so bad also? I guess the whole invasion angle was shit due to the wrestlers then nothing to do with the way it was booked then?

 

True talent in WWE can be totally missed if your never allowed to show it.

Vader was the most pushed heel on television until he started hurting people on house shows. Look at him in the Royal Rumble or when he put Yokozuna out of action or when he destroyed Gorilla Monsoon or when he pinned Shawn Michaels on a PPV. He was getting a megapush. Then the same shit happened that eventually was always going to happen with Vader, and he got punished for being a stiff prick. Just like he was in WCW. Vader's a bad example because he started off on fire. WWF had every intention of making him a star.

 

Gail Kim isnt really true talent. He can be alright, but its not like she's Rey Mysterio. Without Scott D'Amore or Fit Finlay (which Kim doesnt have now) telling them what to do and how to do it, there's a lot of woman's wrestlers exposed as being tosh. Angelina Love used to be quite good until D'Amore got sacked. TNA's Knockouts division's quality usually depends if D'Amore the roadie for them. Kim botched throwing paper out of a bucket of all things.

[Dirty Eddie]

I still maintain that (regardless of what useless wrestler she is paired up with) Gail still has more fire in her work and better execution than most of the other women. Her stuff generally looks good and crisp, where as half the women throw super-weak forearm shots that miss by a mile and spend half the time looking completely lost.

 

At no point have I said Gail is a female version of Rey Misterio or anything, just that she is far from being "useless" and I still think if she was paired up with another decent worker and actually given A) a reason for the match to happen, y'know, actual motivation for a match and then B) more than 3 minutes to get the story of the match across, she more capable than most of their girls of putting on decent matches.

 

I don't think that needing a good agent for your matches actually makes you a shit worker either. DDP used to pretty much pre-plan every single moment of his matches (and they were often good matches) I don't think that makes him shit, just someone who works in a different way.

 

Was The Rock a shit promo because other people wrote his lines for him?

 

Essentially, pro wrestling is often a case of going out there and doing what management have told you to do. Your execution of their plans/ideas.

 

I imagine most pre-match chats for Gail Kim consist of "put her shit over for three minutes then take her finisher". Where as in TNA someone actually took time to plan out good matches that made both talents look good.

[PowerButchi]

I still maintain that (regardless of what useless wrestler she is paired up with) Gail still has more fire in her work and better execution than most of the other women. Her stuff generally looks good and crisp, where as half the women throw super-weak forearm shots that miss by a mile and spend half the time looking completely lost.

 

Being less crap then others doesn't make you good though. She's also prone to Shelton Benjamin levels of botch at times.

[Dirty Eddie]

I still maintain that (regardless of what useless wrestler she is paired up with) Gail still has more fire in her work and better execution than most of the other women. Her stuff generally looks good and crisp, where as half the women throw super-weak forearm shots that miss by a mile and spend half the time looking completely lost.

 

Being less crap then others doesn't make you good though. She's also prone to Shelton Benjamin levels of botch at times.

 

No, being less crap doesn't make you good. But (even if I agreed that she's crap) that still says she's better than most of the female roster and therefor of more USE than most of them. Right?

 

Therefor, not USELESS. See?

 

Former World Champs and merchandise machines RVD and Jeff Hardy were also quite prone to botches. It actually doesn't really matter that much, unless you are looking for reasons to hate someone.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Former World Champs and merchandise machines RVD and Jeff Hardy were also quite prone to botches. It actually doesn't really matter that much, unless you are looking for reasons to hate someone.

They are big stars and the people get into them because they look great and carry themselves in a manner where the people relate to them. Kim doesnt really excell at anything for me, and if they lost her she's totally interchangeable, just like when she left TNA. She's always going to get a cheque and be told to like it or lump it, because for me she's not good looking to the point where people dont care how shit she is, and she's not good enough for people to look past the fact she isnt your typical Sable-type. She's a good looking girl, dont get me wrong, but she isnt the type of girl WWE usually goes for and there's a million better looking girls out there Johnny Ace has in his wank bank. Both companies arent desperate for her services. She poses very little use to the WWE Woman's roster if any. Leighton Baines is a good left back, but if the top four arent after a left back, he's not going to be playing Champions League football anytime soon. Same deal here. She can have a decent match under the right circumstance, but WWE arent after that, so if she is released tomorrow, WWE will not lose anything and not many people would miss her.

[Dirty Eddie]

She can have a decent match under the right circumstance, but WWE arent after that, so if she is released tomorrow, WWE will not lose anything and not many people would miss her.

 

I don't disagree with that.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to put her over as the best female wrestler ever or anything silly. I just took exception to Butch calling her "next to useless". I think thats very unfair.

 

Sure, she's not the Greatest Of All Time or anything, but a useless wrestler wouldn't have put on some of the most fun and heated women's matches in the USA in years. Her feud with Kong was fucking class and showed that (with the right team behind her) she was more than capable of having good matches and getting very over.

 

Being positioned as someone who "doesn't matter" is always going to lead people to not give two shits about you, so no, most fans wouldn't care if she were released. But the same could be said for virtually anyone if WWE decided they were never going to even slightly push them or do anything that might get them over.

[PowerButchi]

She can have a decent match under the right circumstance, but WWE arent after that, so if she is released tomorrow, WWE will not lose anything and not many people would miss her.

 

I don't disagree with that.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to put her over as the best female wrestler ever or anything silly. I just took exception to Butch calling her "next to useless". I think thats very unfair.

 

Sure, she's not the Greatest Of All Time or anything, but a useless wrestler wouldn't have put on some of the most fun and heated women's matches in the USA in years. Her feud with Kong was fucking class and showed that (with the right team behind her) she was more than capable of having good matches and getting very over.

 

If she was of great use and import, people would care about her surely? All manner of useless wrestlers can have good matches and get over with the right team behind them. Christ, I've even enjoyed Harris Brothers matches when everything is in the right place.