Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Come on Carbomb. Tori turning on Kane to be with X-Pac because Kane has a burnt weiner was golden. Â Was that what it was? I thought it was just her taunting him in the wake of running off with X-Pac. Â Richie - good call on the Macho/Flair one, that was pretty good; I really hated Flair for that, and it ramped up my enthusiasm for their match tenfold. Â I suppose when it comes to sexual storylines, my mind immediately jumps to stuff like Beaver Cleavage and the Burchills, Katie Vick, Mark Henry (some of Sexual Chocolate was great, but for the most part I thought it was shite), Al Wilson/Dawn Marie, Billy Gunn/Torrie Wilson/Jamie Noble/Nidia, Edge/Vickie's spa thing, Eddy Guerrero's claiming of Rey's son, and quite a bit of the TNA stuff too. Â I think it's because really, WWE and WCW for the most part have never been conducive to sexual storylines except for a brief period in the late 90s; because they were always marketing to families even at least in part, they could never really commit to anything and thus it ended up looking tacky and stupid. ECW were able to do it well, because they had no such inhibitions - as such, the Raven/Sandman feud for example was excellent, because it really felt like a real-life scenario that ordinary people would recognise or identify. Â When it comes to the Savage/Flair thing, I think a huge part of why it did so well was not necessarily because of it being a sexual thing per se, but because people loved Elizabeth for being this classy, romantic lady, and thus hated Flair for trying to "smear" her with seedy and sleazy claims. The fans had all been party to the big moment that was the Randy/Elizabeth wedding, so obviously something like that would come across as instantly heelish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Im glad you called the Raven/Sandman scenario.. it was the best by far of that 'style' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Come on Carbomb. Tori turning on Kane to be with X-Pac because Kane has a burnt weiner was golden. Â Was that what it was? I thought it was just her taunting him in the wake of running off with X-Pac. Â Richie - good call on the Macho/Flair one, that was pretty good; I really hated Flair for that, and it ramped up my enthusiasm for their match tenfold. Â I suppose when it comes to sexual storylines, my mind immediately jumps to stuff like Beaver Cleavage and the Burchills, Katie Vick, Mark Henry (some of Sexual Chocolate was great, but for the most part I thought it was shite), Al Wilson/Dawn Marie, Billy Gunn/Torrie Wilson/Jamie Noble/Nidia, Edge/Vickie's spa thing, Eddy Guerrero's claiming of Rey's son, and quite a bit of the TNA stuff too. Â I think it's because really, WWE and WCW for the most part have never been conducive to sexual storylines except for a brief period in the late 90s; because they were always marketing to families even at least in part, they could never really commit to anything and thus it ended up looking tacky and stupid. ECW were able to do it well, because they had no such inhibitions - as such, the Raven/Sandman feud for example was excellent, because it really felt like a real-life scenario that ordinary people would recognise or identify. Â When it comes to the Savage/Flair thing, I think a huge part of why it did so well was not necessarily because of it being a sexual thing per se, but because people loved Elizabeth for being this classy, romantic lady, and thus hated Flair for trying to "smear" her with seedy and sleazy claims. The fans had all been party to the big moment that was the Randy/Elizabeth wedding, so obviously something like that would come across as instantly heelish. Â Are you putting overtly 'sexual' storylines in a different category from 'relationship/marriage/infidelity' storylines here? There've been plenty of good examples of the latter where the sexual aspect is more subtly implicit, but there at the core of it nonetheless. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of Flair/Savage (twice), HHH/Stephanie (and later the love triangle with Kurt Angle), Stephanie/Test/Shane, Vince/Trish, Trish/Christian/Jericho, Edge/Lita, Edge/Vickie, etc. Â All those angles involved characters who were either over already or in the process of getting over with the storylines, so I don't think sexual storylines are a bad or even an awkward thing to do persay. The difference with the ones in your list which mostly didn't get over was that they generally revolved around silly, badly written skits featuring peripheral characters than actual emotive, heat-drawing storylines. They bombed because, to go into girl mode for a second, they were all sex and no emotion - they had none of the core ingredients of betrayal or manipulation that makes a wrestling angle. Back OT, I'm sure the Vince/incest angle would have fallen into this category rather than the former, which is why you're probably right that it's a good thing it didn't see the light of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'm not saying sexual storylines are bad per se, but more that the majority of storylines I've seen which have hinged on sexual subjects have not been particularly enjoyable - it's not the subject matter which makes them unenjoyable, it's rather that the experience of the ones there have been have made them difficult to watch (in a cringeworthy or boring way). Â Case in point: the Al Wilson/Dawn Marie storyline. It was just so bloody stupid, not to mention completely pointless. Â I think you're right about the emotion thing, though. Flair/Savage worked because Flair was the sleazy, sexual invader of Savage/Liz' romance. The Angle/Steph/HHH triangle worked I suppose because ultimately, the fans "knew" that Trips and Steph loved each other. Trish/Christian/Jericho because it was basically a reworking of the Savage/Flair dynamic - Jericho the romantic, with his emotions trodden on by a sleazy heel in Christian and a Jezebel in Trish, both of whom had made it about sex rather than love. Â I thought Edge/Vickie was horrible - it didn't add anything to my enjoyment of what was already a very effective heel manager/wrestler team. They didn't need to show all that spa stuff or "aftermath" - all that did was make me think "pervert cameraman". Â The Venis/Kaientai thing was pretty bad, too. I didn't feel anything at all during that (unlike Val, LOLZ), and I'm not sure what I was supposed to feel - still a bit mystified to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I suppose when it comes to sexual storylines, my mind immediately jumps to stuff like Beaver Cleavage and the Burchills, That's pretty weird, because the only storylines the Burchills ever had were Regal's Mates and the one with the Hurricane. Nothing even remotely sexual in either of them. Although that could just be because Paul Burchill is incapable of expressing any sentiment in the ring other than "you've probably got time for a piss and a trip to the merchandise stand before someone better comes on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The Venis/Kaientai thing was pretty bad, too. I didn't feel anything at all during that (unlike Val, LOLZ), and I'm not sure what I was supposed to feel - still a bit mystified to this day. Â Venus knobbing Shamrock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 I suppose when it comes to sexual storylines, my mind immediately jumps to stuff like Beaver Cleavage and the Burchills, That's pretty weird, because the only storylines the Burchills ever had were Regal's Mates and the one with the Hurricane. Nothing even remotely sexual in either of them. Although that could just be because Paul Burchill is incapable of expressing any sentiment in the ring other than "you've probably got time for a piss and a trip to the merchandise stand before someone better comes on." Â Come on, that's deliberately feigning ignorance. The very first couple of appearances after Katie Lea's appearance, they were blatantly supposed to be a pair of dodgy siblings - their body language (or, rather, Katie's) was quite sexual. I know they dropped it almost immediately after those couple of times, but there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick - it wasn't just one of those "lol the internet jumping to conclusions again" things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Â You know very well what I'm talking about, Pity. You had footage of Burchill introducing his "sister" and both of them talking about and behaving toward each other in a very suggestive manner. Yes, it wasn't outright shagging or snogging, but the implication was more than clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Â Once me and my mate shadily ordered Television X on his Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Â You know very well what I'm talking about, Pity. No I don't. Was it a DVD extra or what? I genuinely don't recall any skits with them at all other than the ones that were on TV. Surely this would have been big news at the time the aborted videos were released/leaked. Â there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Â Once me and my mate shadily ordered Television X on his Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 I think I missed one of these "sex-driven" storylines.....  And what about Flair ramming it down Savages throat  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matbro1984 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Â You know very well what I'm talking about, Pity. No I don't. Was it a DVD extra or what? I genuinely don't recall any skits with them at all other than the ones that were on TV. Surely this would have been big news at the time the aborted videos were released/leaked. Â there was actual footage of the aborted incest gimmick I've never seen this. Is it on youtube? I'm assuming it doesn't show dick going in though. Â Once me and my mate shadily ordered Television X on his Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members theironshake Posted March 2, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 I think Stephs baby should have been a Macho Baby....ohhhhhhhhh yeah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 WOW it actually took TWO pages before someone dropped a Randy Savage is rumuored to have fucked Stephanie joke. Â Only incest story in a soap I can remember is the Brookside one which was all kinds of fucked up. Â Â Thats how the fallout of a McMahon incest angle should be booked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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