Ask Dixie! She Answers!

[tiger_rick]

I'm not even disagreeing with you but wanted to throw the point that between Bischoff losing direction and also having to give so many guys far too much power and then Russo coming in and being Russo the place had no chance.

Only one person had written power, and that was Hulk Hogan. And when Bischoff left, so did he. Hogan wasnt going to come to work for anyone he didnt trust. Russo had a incredible roster to use. He had all the cruiserweights that were so popular, he had the likes of Benoit, Guerrero and Mysterio. And Bret Hart and Goldberg had been off TV for months, so they were fresh and had plenty of star quality, which could have been exploited. Goldberg was still their biggest star by late 1999. My point was that, when Bischoff got fired it should have been like Christmas day for whoever took over next with the money backing and the talent roster they had and the fact they were still doing very, very good business. But ... it wasnt.

I'm not sure where I claimed any different? While business was strong (and WCW TV ratings weren't that bad even in 2001 for yank TV), Bischoff had shown himself to be a one trick pony who's only idea of how to turn things around was to throw money at people less qualified to draw fans than the people he was already paying and pissing off on a weekly basis.

 

Bill Watts actually saved the company a fucking shitload. It never turned a profit when he was there, but he was brought in to cut costs and save money, and he did. They lost far, far less money under him than they did Herd and Frye, I thought you would have known that.

Wow, WCW only lost

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I'm not sure where I claimed any different? While business was strong (and WCW TV ratings weren't that bad even in 2001 for yank TV), Bischoff had shown himself to be a one trick pony who's only idea of how to turn things around was to throw money at people less qualified to draw fans than the people he was already paying and pissing off on a weekly basis.

WCW was dead when Bischoff took over. What one trick are you talking about exactly? There was a thousand tricks he needed to take that company out of the gutter it was in and to take it to a point where it was making $50 million per year? He not only restructured its whole business plan, he also restructured the television scheduling, set up talent agreements with companies across the world thus raising awareness in those countries, brought in the biggest star in the business who doubled their buyrates, attendance and merchandise revenue. Before Bischoff took over WCW, the wrestling business never had a two hour live prime time show that featured all name matches, you never saw cruiserweight wrestlers pushed to that level and you didnt see PPV level main event matches on television. And their buyrates never suffered for this. Of course he wasnt a one trick pony. I dont even think he's harshest critics would call him that. His finger was so on the pulse of wrestling at the time, even Vince McMahon couldnt keep up with him. Do you not think WWF threw money at problems? The signings of Mike Tyson for $3.5 million was definitely throwing money at a problem, I'd say.

[tiger_rick]

What one trick are you talking about exactly?

His one trick was to use Turner's chequebook to sign whoever was available until the point came where he ran out of talent to steal. Even in late 1998 and early 1999 his only idea to freshen things up was to raid ECW and sign up Z-list celebs.

 

He not only restructured its whole business plan, he also restructured the television scheduling,

Hardly ground breaking.

 

set up talent agreements with companies across the world thus raising awareness in those countries,

Talent exchange was hardly a novel concept and I must have missed all the events he put on to take advantage of those agreements. Talent exchange was a sensible strategy. Bischoff being Bischoff, he signed them all up on good contracts which resulted in WCW having about 500 roster members by 1998.

 

the wrestling business never had a two hour live prime time show that featured all name matches, you never saw cruiserweight wrestlers pushed to that level and you didnt see PPV level main event matches on television. And their buyrates never suffered for this.

You mean until they ran out of matches? Until the audience grew sick of seeing the same thing they'd seen 5 times before and Bischoff had no answer to because there was (almost) no-one who Vince had made a star left for him to sign?

 

His finger was so on the pulse of wrestling at the time, even Vince McMahon couldnt keep up with him.

Credit where it's due, the nWo was a great idea and for a while, the mid-card and the cruisers managed to fill the gaps brilliantly. He had nothing else though. No-one progressed up the card apart from DDP. All he did was take talented wrestlers and put them in different combinations of matches. I'm not belittling that, it's a simple strategy. It was refreshingly different to the nWo soap opera and didn't require more than a few minutes thought per week, leaving him time to concentrate on his cash cow. It went on for 2 years though, without anyone progressing beyond the same level. That meant the mid-card became stale and so were the main events. His attitude to the Mexican cruisers was so blindingly obvious that he made it a storyline. There was never a second good idea beyond the nWo. He never established a proper babyface opposition for the nWo in all the time he was building Sting, then he ruined Sting's momentum in one month. He lucked into Goldberg and did fuck all with him. What was his answer to the WWF's momentum? Sign the Ultimate Warrior (See "almost" no-one left ). He had some great qualities but he had one bigger flaw which was that he was nowhere near as clever as he thought he was.

 

Do you not think WWF threw money at problems? The signings of Mike Tyson for $3.5 million was definitely throwing money at a problem, I'd say.

Mike Tyson was a bigger star than anyone on the WWF roster, which was kinda my point. Bischoff was throwing money at people who weren't close to being worth it.

[thejeffjarrettone]

@TNADixie if Vince Russo had as much faith in his product as you do in him, surely he wouldn't need to sit down and explain it to you?

 

My question to Ms Carter.

 

Thats a baffling one. What exactly was the question there?

 

The question is fairly self-explanitory. If Vince Russo was confident that he had produced a logical, well-written TV show or Pay Per View, why would he feel the need to sit down with Ms Carter and explain each part of it to her? Is she mentally impaired? Does she have the attention span of a 5 year old after a tube of blue smarties?

[IANdrewDiceClay]

His one trick was to use Turner's chequebook to sign whoever was available until the point came where he ran out of talent to steal. Even in late 1998 and early 1999 his only idea to freshen things up was to raid ECW and sign up Z-list celebs.

Like the WWF did in 1983/84 you mean? And like WWF did in 1999/2000? When a company is stale and it needs a revamp, you need new talent. Every successful era has done it. Post territory days, its essential, because you dont have promoters to call up to borrow Andre The Giant or a Ric Flair because that territory's audience is bored with them. Thats exactly what you need to do to help the growth of your company. Were the Ding Dongs and Paul Roma going to help his business thrive? No he needed talent.

 

Hardly ground breaking.

Hardly one trick though is it? It was ground breaking, because the rescheduling including going up against a rival promotion in its established slot. Who else did or would have tried it? Of course it was ground breaking. WWF was a one hour taped show in 1995. WWF may never have broke out of that formular without Nitro challenging it.

 

Talent exchange was hardly a novel concept and I must have missed all the events he put on to take advantage of those agreements. Talent exchange was a sensible strategy. Bischoff being Bischoff, he signed them all up on good contracts which resulted in WCW having about 500 roster members by 1998.

He filled Nitro and PPV's up with the best wrestling in the United States at the time to hide the fact the aging stars who everyone had paid to see couldnt deliever that kind of match in the main event. While the rehot storyline that was the nWo was going on, the matches on the show were more than worth watching. You just had to watch an episode of Saturday Night or Nitro or a WCW PPV to see that it was the hottest promotion in the world. And a talent exchange to that extent was a novel concept. Without Nitro, where else would we see wrestlings from New Japan, War, AAA and other promotions across the globe? Definitely not on the WWF and ECW didnt have the national expose to do so.

 

You mean until they ran out of matches? Until the audience grew sick of seeing the same thing they'd seen 5 times before and Bischoff had no answer to because there was (almost) no-one who Vince had made a star left for him to sign?

When did they run out of matches? Raw was just putting on a far better product. WCW while it was getting beat was still putting on a profitable product and the match quality didnt suffer. Spring Stampede 99 (when WCW was getting hammered) was by a long margine the best PPV of the year. There was plently of matches people wanted to see.

 

Credit where it's due, the nWo was a great idea and for a while, the mid-card and the cruisers managed to fill the gaps brilliantly. He had nothing else though. No-one progressed up the card apart from DDP.

And The Giant and Bill Goldberg, who were massive stars and became legit draws in 1997-99.

 

All he did was take talented wrestlers and put them in different combinations of matches. I'm not belittling that, it's a simple strategy. It was refreshingly different to the nWo soap opera and didn't require more than a few minutes thought per week, leaving him time to concentrate on his cash cow. It went on for 2 years though, without anyone progressing beyond the same level.

Sting did and he hadnt drawn a penny for WCW for years. DDP and Randy Savage did, and Savage had long since died on his arse and DDP wasnt even a wrestler before Bischoff came on board. Lex Luger became a massive star after years of being the nearly man. Hall and Nash were never big draws either, for the WWF but they developed into far bigger stars in WCW.

 

That meant the mid-card became stale and so were the main events.

When was this? WCW's midcard was never stale. Raven, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Booker T and Raven and for a brief period in the midcard role Bill Goldberg were brilliant in the midcard and usually the most over thing on the show. And the main events in WCW were never any good, but the people didnt care because they usually involved people they cared about. And as I said earlier, the main events were drawing up until the Spring of 1999.

 

There was never a second good idea beyond the nWo.

Hulk Hogan becoming World Champion in 1994 and Goldberg and the Streak was two pretty good ones. The numbers proved that. And the nWo was still selling if early 99 was anything to go by. The whole plan was for Goldberg to finish off the nWo and Hogan to eventually go back to being a face. But Goldberg, Luger, Hall and Hogan (4 key players in the angle) went down with injuries and that fucked the whole plan up.

 

He never established a proper babyface opposition for the nWo in all the time he was building Sting, then he ruined Sting's momentum in one month.

Lex Luger, DDP, Roddy Piper, Ric Flair and The Giant were about as established as you could possibly get as babyfaces going against the nWo. They were totally established. They all drew massive with the nWo as well.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

He lucked into Goldberg and did fuck all with him.

Goldberg had only been in the business about a year. How on earth did they "luck into him". They pushed him to the moon, which no promoter would have ever done, and it paid off. Goldberg created so much revenue for the WCW. He drew huge on PPV, sold out the Georgia Dome on his own and was still huge until he got injured in early 99, which ruined the whole Goldberg vs nWo angle which would dominate the show for the next year.

 

What was his answer to the WWF's momentum? Sign the Ultimate Warrior (See "almost" no-one left ). He had some great qualities but he had one bigger flaw which was that he was nowhere near as clever as he thought he was.

He signed Ultimate Warrior while he was in negotiations with the WWF, so the genius Vince is must have thought he had some millage left. Bischoff's real answer to the WWF's momentum was putting the belt on Goldberg.

 

Mike Tyson was a bigger star than anyone on the WWF roster, which was kinda my point. Bischoff was throwing money at people who weren't close to being worth it.

Hulk Hogan was the biggest name in the history of wrestling and that worked a treat because like the Tyson signing, it turned business completely around. Ted Turner was funding Bischoff. When you have that much money, you can throw money about. Just like in 2001 when McMahon bought all those WCW wrestlers that werent close to being worth it and failed miserably with those who were worth it. Or when he spent all that money on a Football League. Or a Body Building Federation. Or promoting a Sugar Ray Leondard fight. Or all those shit films he makes. Or trying to get his wife into politics (allegedly).

[Slapnut]

EDIT: Wrong topic

[tiger_rick]

His one trick was to use Turner's chequebook to sign whoever was available until the point came where he ran out of talent to steal. Even in late 1998 and early 1999 his only idea to freshen things up was to raid ECW and sign up Z-list celebs.

Like the WWF did in 1983/84 you mean? And like WWF did in 1999/2000? When a company is stale and it needs a revamp, you need new talent. Every successful era has done it. Post territory days, its essential, because you dont have promoters to call up to borrow Andre The Giant or a Ric Flair because that territory's audience is bored with them. Thats exactly what you need to do to help the growth of your company. Were the Ding Dongs and Paul Roma going to help his business thrive? No he needed talent.

Everyone needs talent. Bischoff didn't have anything beyond stealing established WWF talent. His entire philosophy was based on taking guys the WWF had made. Is it a coincidence that once Vince woke up and tied his guys down to guaranteed contracts that Eric's creative well dried up?

 

I'm not sure why you keep banging on about Vince? This isn't a discussion about Vince. Vince has made a billion mistakes but fundamentally, he's been in business for 30 years because he can regenerate his product. Bischoff failed the very first time he had to do it. I'm not discrediting everything he did, taking a company like WCW and making more money and drawing more people than the WWF was a tremendous achievement. That takes some brilliance. However, to go from that position to the one they were in September 1999 takes a level of incompetance that is unrivalled even in pro-wrestling. In mid-1998, the company was in fantastic shape and needed Bischoff to come up with a second good idea at the top of the card and to start making fresh opponents for his main eventers. He turned to the fucking Ultimate Warrior.

 

Goldberg's win streak was a cracking little mid-card gimmick but once the made him World Champion, they didn't know what do do with him did they? He was secondary to the nWo/Wolfpac feud, the Hogan/Warrior feud, even Bret vs. Sting got more attention. Bischoff could never see beyond the end of his nose.

[pgi86]

Btw, just as a sidenote explaining what Dixie said about Nash in the Q&A, Meltzer finally confirmed that Nash had indeed signed with TNA back in January but then several days before the Rumble he decided against returning to TNA, asked for a release and was granted one.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Everyone needs talent. Bischoff didn't have anything beyond stealing established WWF talent. His entire philosophy was based on taking guys the WWF had made. Is it a coincidence that once Vince woke up and tied his guys down to guaranteed contracts that Eric's creative well dried up?

What about the cruiserweight division and the host of uppercard wrestlers like Benoit, Guerrero, Raven etc.? They werent pipped from the WWF. Neither was Goldberg, DDP, Ric Flair or The Giant. And even Jim Ross admitted on that Legends of Wrestling show, like Austin and Foley were taken to the WWF and made bigger stars, Hall and Nash were far, far bigger stars in WCW. Way bigger than they were in the WWF.

 

I'm not sure why you keep banging on about Vince?

I keep bringing up Vince McMahon, because the mistakes Bischoff made which supposedly "put the company out of business" have been done a million times by the McMahon and McMahon actually lost more in 2001 for his company (because of that Football league and all the money spent on acquiring talent for the Invasion angle and getting very little back) than Bischoff did in 1999. Yes, McMahon's been able to reinvent himself, but Bischoff would have never gotten the chance to, because he was essentially an employee and had to fight for every decision when it came to anything other than hiring talent. McMahon owned the WWF and his risks were on his head. Bischoffs situation was completely different. And yes, he turned to the Warrior for a business spike, but if your going to crucify him for that, then there's a lot of promoters that need the same treatment. He never started the trend of bringing back the Warrior for a payday.

 

Goldberg's win streak was a cracking little mid-card gimmick but once the made him World Champion, they didn't know what do do with him did they? He was secondary to the nWo/Wolfpac feud, the Hogan/Warrior feud, even Bret vs. Sting got more attention. Bischoff could never see beyond the end of his nose.

Everything else might be opinion, but all that is completely wrong. He was just about neck and neck with Steve Austin! He was a massive celebrity name outside wrestling. Mark McGuire even rubbed his bat on Goldberg before he made that record breaking series of home runs. WCW drew huge business with Goldberg and nobody touched him. Hulk Hogan even took about three months off when Goldberg was the champion to "become president". Bret and Sting was a midcard feud compared with what Goldberg was doing. The Hogan and Warrior feud was hoaky shit that nobody enjoyed. DDP vs. Goldberg during the time your speaking of was the main event of Halloween Havoc and the main selling point. You should really rewatch that time period, because anything that wasnt Goldberg didnt really matter much. He was a megastar and until early 1999, WCW almost treated him perfectly. He mowed through Hogan, Sting, The Giant, Scott Hall and DDP! They couldnt have treated him more like the Man.

[tiger_rick]

Goldberg's win streak was a cracking little mid-card gimmick but once the made him World Champion, they didn't know what do do with him did they? He was secondary to the nWo/Wolfpac feud, the Hogan/Warrior feud, even Bret vs. Sting got more attention. Bischoff could never see beyond the end of his nose.

Everything else might be opinion, but all that is completely wrong. He was just about neck and neck with Steve Austin! He was a massive celebrity name outside wrestling. Mark McGuire even rubbed his bat on Goldberg before he made that record breaking series of home runs. WCW drew huge business with Goldberg and nobody touched him. Hulk Hogan even took about three months off when Goldberg was the champion to "become president". Bret and Sting was a midcard feud compared with what Goldberg was doing. The Hogan and Warrior feud was hoaky shit that nobody enjoyed. DDP vs. Goldberg during the time your speaking of was the main event of Halloween Havoc and the main selling point. You should really rewatch that time period, because anything that wasnt Goldberg didnt really matter much. He was a megastar and until early 1999, WCW almost treated him perfectly. He mowed through Hogan, Sting, The Giant, Scott Hall and DDP! They couldnt have treated him more like the Man.

I've just watched it! Sting & Bret Hart are all over the recaps, the interviews and even the odd main event. Hogan and Bischoff are in every other segment. Kevin Nash trying to stop Scott Hall being a drunk is in the other segments. DDP is feuding with Raven's remaining flock while Goldberg saves him. Goldberg and DDP might be on the posters but the match being pushed is Hogan/Warrior. In WCW, you know which match is the main event because it's the one the commentators talk about during the cruiserweight and jobber matches.

 

Goldber won the World Title on July 6th. BATB main event was DDP/Malone vs. Hogan/Rodzilla. Goldberg squashed Perfect. More as a result of the rushed title win though. Road Wild main was DDP/Leno vs. Hogan & Bisch, right? Goldberg was in that shitty battle royal. Fall Brawl had the 3 Way War games match as a main. No idea where Goldberg was? Then there was Halloween Havoc. (Wasn't there some controversy over WCW going over 3 hours on the PPV and the match not airing? Seem to recall). He did a run-in at World War 3. Then he lost the title at Starrcade.

 

So he loses the belt having defended it once in a match that mattered and that match was overshadowed completely by Hogan's fucking fiasco. Goldberg was a megastar, no doubt but he was a bigger star on July 5th 1998 than he was anytime after.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I've just watched it! Sting & Bret Hart are all over the recaps, the interviews and even the odd main event. Hogan and Bischoff are in every other segment. Kevin Nash trying to stop Scott Hall being a drunk is in the other segments. DDP is feuding with Raven's remaining flock while Goldberg saves him. Goldberg and DDP might be on the posters but the match being pushed is Hogan/Warrior. In WCW, you know which match is the main event because it's the one the commentators talk about during the cruiserweight and jobber matches.

They needed pushing ahead of Goldberg, because Goldberg all about the mystique. Goldberg's bread and butter was still squashing people, and thats what people wanted to see, because at that stage of his career he didnt have it in him to wrestle long matches. The fact he sold the most merchandise, sold out the buildings on his own and had the loudest ovations showed it was sound strategy. Goldberg was selling out buildings on his own during this period. He beat every big star imaginable. He started off slow, still squashing people like Hennig, but that was because they didnt want to piss away the post-fall period leading into Starrcade. Thats when after Fall Brawl, he beat Sting, he beat Scott Hall, he beat The Giant, he beat DDP and then the nWo reformed and he was going to finally do the big nWo vs Goldberg angle. If you beat the likes of all those men clean in explosive fashion like he did, of course he is the main man. Because he didnt talk and couldnt work very well at the time, they didnt want to shove him down your throat and ruin his magic.

 

So he loses the belt having defended it once in a match that mattered and that match was overshadowed completely by Hogan's fucking fiasco. Goldberg was a megastar, no doubt but he was a bigger star on July 5th 1998 than he was anytime after.

Of course he wasnt the facts are out there for you to see. He sold out the 40,000 seater Georgia Dome on his own, when no other wrestler was announced for it. He was on all the talk shows across America, he had the biggest sports star in the country at the time rubbing his bat on him for good luck. He was a monster success as World Champion.

[tiger_rick]

They needed pushing ahead of Goldberg, because Goldberg all about the mystique. Goldberg's bread and butter was still squashing people, and thats what people wanted to see, because at that stage of his career he didnt have it in him to wrestle long matches. The fact he sold the most merchandise, sold out the buildings on his own and had the loudest ovations showed it was sound strategy. Goldberg was selling out buildings on his own during this period. He beat every big star imaginable. He started off slow, still squashing people like Hennig, but that was because they didnt want to piss away the post-fall period leading into Starrcade. Thats when after Fall Brawl, he beat Sting, he beat Scott Hall, he beat The Giant, he beat DDP and then the nWo reformed and he was going to finally do the big nWo vs Goldberg angle. If you beat the likes of all those men clean in explosive fashion like he did, of course he is the main man. Because he didnt talk and couldnt work very well at the time, they didnt want to shove him down your throat and ruin his magic.

Alright, fair enough, so they deliberately took a slow approach to Goldberg as champion. And he became a megastar in that 5 months but not before. Why take the belt off him then? Which retard made that decision? Goldberg had fulfilled about 1% of his potential as champion and he was still a bigger draw than anyone else. He had yet to have PPV matches with Hogan, Sting, Bret, Flair & Luger, not to mention the guys in the mid-card who he hadn't really crossed yet like Steiner, Benoit and Booker. Why take the belt off him?

 

Booking him slowly as World Champion and then taking the belt off him before he could fulfill his potential and never putting the belt back on him or capitalising on the loss is exactly what I was talking about here "Goldberg's win streak was a cracking little mid-card gimmick but once the made him World Champion, they didn't know what do do with him did they? He was secondary to the nWo/Wolfpac feud, the Hogan/Warrior feud, even Bret vs. Sting got more attention. Bischoff could never see beyond the end of his nose."

 

You seem to agree.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Alright, fair enough, so they deliberately took a slow approach to Goldberg as champion. And he became a megastar in that 5 months but not before. Why take the belt off him then? Which retard made that decision? Goldberg had fulfilled about 1% of his potential as champion and he was still a bigger draw than anyone else. He had yet to have PPV matches with Hogan, Sting, Bret, Flair & Luger, not to mention the guys in the mid-card who he hadn't really crossed yet like Steiner, Benoit and Booker. Why take the belt off him? Booking him slowly as World Champion and then taking the belt off him before he could fulfill his potential and never putting the belt back on him or capitalising on the loss is exactly what I was talking about here "Goldberg's win streak was a cracking little mid-card gimmick but once the made him World Champion, they didn't know what do do with him did they? He was secondary to the nWo/Wolfpac feud, the Hogan/Warrior feud, even Bret vs. Sting got more attention. Bischoff could never see beyond the end of his nose."

I never said he did live up to his potential as champion. What I said was he was a great champion, a bigger star while he was champion and that he was the main man of that company. All of which I stand by. They took the belt off him because they panicked, because they were chanting "Goldberg Sucks" at Nitro and live events and they thought an elite version of the nWo would have given Goldberg five big drawing PPV's on the trot. He started with Scott Hall, he was going to move onto Scott Steiner, Lex Luger, Kevin Nash and then have the big PPV rematch with Hulk Hogan. Hogan, Goldberg, Hall, Luger and Steiner all got injured around the same time, though so the storyline was dead in the first month. I dont agree with them taking the belt off him, and especially not the manner in which they got the belt off him, but you can totally see the strategy in why they wanted to have him run against a heel squad. Goldberg was about as predictable as the Undertaker at WrestleMania when he was on the Streak, so having him chase the belt would have made television interesting. They were getting destroyed at the time. They needed to try something.

 

Like I said earlier, Bischoff needed to go in 1999, because he'd completely lost interest in wrestling and tried to pal up to celebrities and let the company be controlled by Dusty Rhodes and Kevin Nash while he was trying to get WCW movie deals and music deals because he thought they could crack the main stream. What never gets mentioned is the reason Bischoff had to give control to other parties in late 1998 was because he was tying up a deal with NBC so they could show Nitro on that channel, which would have been massive. Thats why Hogan left, because he thought he would make his grand return on the debut of NBC. But it all fell through, and Bischoff in 1999 was worn out and out of touch with the new audience. Nobody can defend his bad decisions he made in earlier 1999. My whole argument was the "one trick pony" comment. He contributed a lot to the business and had so many creative ideas. He shouldnt be remembered just for some fuck ups.