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Undertaker/Sting discussion thread, inc 14/02 *Raw Spoilers*

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Fuck it, seems like fun.



WWF/WCW WrestleMania 15



WWF title. Austin vs Goldberg


WCW title. Nash vs The Rock


Sting vs Undertaker


DX vs NWO Wargames HIAC. New Age Outlaws, Xpac, and HHH vs Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Bret Hart, and Scott Steiner


No Holds Barred. DDP vs Mankind


The Corporation vs The Horsemen. Bossman, Shamrock, and Big Show vs Benoit, Malenko, and Flair


Tag Titles. Jeff Jarrett and Owen Hart vs Rey Mysterio and Kidman


The Acolytes vs The Barbarian and MENG


Cruiserweight title. Taka Michinoku vs Juvi



Dark match. The Brood vs The Boogie Knights and Ernest Miller

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Must admit, Mable getting fired never fails to amuse, no matter how many times he doesnt get over. At least he got his tits out for the lads this time. WWE Production is so awesome. Wish they were that good in 1995, because he main event push might not have died on its arse.

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Re. the video package itself...


Looked like Taker coming back to me. Could be wrong though.


That's what I thought when I saw it last week - "Ah, so Taker will be back for Mania after all". Now I did also think it looked like Sting's 97 promos but I just thought "WWE ripped off Sting's Starrcade Promo on that one".


I hope I'm wrong and it does turn out to be Sting (or the idea suggested here by purplemonkeydishwasher and Dazz where it turns out to be both of them) but for now I'm not setting myself up to be disappointed. I expect we'll get a better idea after tonight since I expect there will be a follow up video that might have some more clues in it.


I heard Taker was surposed to do some western cowboy type movie for WWE films, this vid has a hint of western in it to me, perhaps taker is comming back with deadman cowboy gimmick like Jonah Hex lol, I dunno, its more likely than Sting showing up, although that would be the first WM since 19 that I would outright pay for just to see Sting.


Taker has always had a Western-type theme to a greater or lesser extent - be it immortal who seemed to have been around since the Wild West in Death Valley, California or Bad Ass Biker from Texas.


If it isn't Sting I'll suck my own dick. Or at least give it a damn good try. 22 1 11 is the date mentioned in the promo


Yeah, good luck with that.


There are some corners of Internet land suggesting it's Slither a.k.a. The artist formerly known as The Boogeyman.


That would go over like Savio Vega.


Or the alleged child-molesting Se7en character that WCW bottled on, and Dustin Runnels was primed to portray.


I'm still not sure about that one. The way I read it at the time was that WCW dropped it because they thought it could be misinterpreted as a paedo gimmick rather than actually being one.


I've got but haven't yet read Dustin's book: what does he say about it there?


sorry was on the mobile when i posted it, yeah thats the pic i seen, as for the promo that aired i'm still gonna say sting will be involved, why would taker return at raw when he's on smackdown and his brother is on smackdown, his brother being the one that set aboot him and killed him off at the ppv once again.

Ric Flair was on Smackdown when he made his return on RAW for his last hoorah. On the road to Wrestlemania brand allegiances mean very little. Plus WWE are advertising the show as "the return of The Undertaker."


They then quietly had Naitch switch brands (move his profile from the SmackDown! page to the Raw one) after he came back that night (following his falling out/setting up his own financial advice company/absence). That seemed almost like they were mocking SmackDown given who the SD crew had gotten in that draft and then first Flair disappears from the show after a few weeks, then when he comes back it is on Raw (fair enough) but they decide to stick him on Raw every week. They did the same with Batista last year (switching brands, even though they could have still done him vs Cena as inter-promotional). So yeah, if they want someone on the A-Show in the build up to WM, they'll stick them on the A-Show.


I just don't see why WWE would go to so much effort for 'Taker. He's only been away since October - usually it's a little longer when they give him a big buildup, or they have him show up after a PPV?

It does seem a little strange, as I don't really see how anyone could take it for something other than a letdown given the "mystery" element to the vignette, but I still think that's who it probably is.

It has been 2 months longer (I mean until Wrestlemania it's self when he will probably wrestle again for the first time) than the last time he was buried alive by Kane and Vince McMahon at Survivor Series 2003, and I they did all the gongs and everything creeping out Kane since the Royal Rumble match. I'm sure there was simular video packages as well.


It is also longer than his 2007 absence (May to September) where they did the desert stuff Baz Windham mentioned.


FWIW, I really would like to see Sting get the big DVD set, Hall of Fame, WrestleMania send-off package and I think he deserves it.

Edited by TheBigBoot
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While we're on the "Big Daddy V was pretty cool" lines, it's an excuse to post one of my favourite squash matches ever:




That was ace, and the crowd was loving it too! I think he'd have caught on if all of his squashes were like that.

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While we're on the "Big Daddy V was pretty cool" lines, it's an excuse to post one of my favourite squash matches ever:




That was ace, and the crowd was loving it too! I think he'd have caught on if all of his squashes were like that.

That squash was mint. I thought BDV was actually really good as a monster heel. Carbomb isn't the only one that wants to see more fat fuck monsters smashing local jobbers about. I wish they had jobber squashes like that on Raw and SmackDown every week to be honest. They could easily fit a couple of two minute squashes into the 2 hour show, instead of ramming 'Moments Ago' segments down our throats after every ad break.

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I think Sting would flop in the WWE as a wrestling character. HOF, one time deal, yeah he'll get a big time and well-deserved pop. But as someone else has already mentioned, it's too late in the day for Sting to mean anything to anyone except a bunch of hardcores, or casuals who happen to watch TNA and accept Sting as a legitimate star there. Casuals who are in their 20's/30's may accept Sting as a star too. But the WWE is aimed at a younger audience these days who accept Cena (amongst others) as their messiah(s)


I don't see why the younger audience couldn't accept both Cena and Sting as legitimate stars. If anything, Sting always appealed to a lot of "little Stingers" as well and it was the older Flair fans from the Mid-Atlantic days who were the ones who occasionally booed him (but only really when he wrestled Naitch or Vader).


and the questions that need to be seriously asked here is 'Do they actually know who Sting is?'


Maybe. Depends if they are the type who buy the DVDs, etc. or if they are just ones who watch it on TV every week. If they buy the WWE DVDs/magazines/whatever then I think they've mentioned Sting more than anyone else who hasn't worked for them.


and 'Will they care?'


I don't see why not. It depends how good a job they do at building things up.


It wasn't Taker's boots or jacket


I thought that, but if they're bringing Taker back, no reason to not freshen the old look up. Considering he was a regular evolver for the majority of his career, he's been pretty stagnant look-wise for a good few years.


Exactly. Taker has always been a guy who changed his look every few years and a lot of those changes have come after he's 'died' and risen back from the dead again. So this seems like the ideal time to give him a new look for what could realistically be his last big run (I can see him working maybe the odd novelty match once a year after that but I think this could be his last proper year as an active wrestler).


The only thing i don't understand about the video that doesn't apply to undertaker or sting is the creepy shack/house


I thought maybe that was Taker's secret hide-out out in the woods or something. Remember in the past when he's disappeared he's talked about time for solitude and rehabilitation or stuff along those lines? Maybe that's where he hangs out when he needs to go into hiding for a bit.


Anyone said Brock Lesner?


Because Brock isn't known as a guy who wanders round in the rain to scary music, whilst wearing a trench coat and hangs out in a spooky-looking shack in the middle of nowhere?


Again, one-off appearences with people who've actually appeared in the WWE before and, more importantly, within the last ten years. TNA does not even show up on the radar of most casuals, so why would the WWE universe (for lack of a better term) care about a person who's been in purgatory for the last ten years?


Another thing to consider is this: support for WWE and WCW was quite tribalistic in its day. Some old-school casuals would not give a fuck about a 'WCW legend' and vice-versa.


That is true. Back when both were around I knew people who wouldn't watch WCW because it was "rubbish" and never watched it to see if that opinion might change. Taking it outside people I met in real life, there was also a bit of that with the WCW-made guys like Goldberg where a lot of his "only knows two movez" online critics seemed to be the same people who were hardcore McMahon defenders. I don't think that was a coincidence.


Even then though I think Sting was probably the one guy a lot of people wanted to see in WWF even if they hated WCW. I mean think back to the (majority) WWF/ECW fans on the internet in 1999 and how things were treated even with guys like Booker T. and DDP who weren't hated in the way that people like Bischoff/Hogan/Nash/Turner were for being "evil" or guys like Luger and Goldberg were for 'not knowing how to work' or Hall, Hennig and (particularly) The Giant were for "getting fat"/"eating too many pies, lol" (and being an addict in Hall's case), there was still this feeling they would get "exposed" if they went to WWF. Sting on the other hand is a completely different story. I think even a lot of hardcore 'WWF 4 Life' fans would have liked to have seen him... And even if they wouldn't have back then I think the bad feelings have probably gone away over the ten year gap you mention.

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Don't agree he was the best fat guy since Quake (I thought Yoko was really underrated) and don't remember what the crowd reactions were like in terms of him getting over really but I do remember them putting him over some top stars. Thought he was something different, but I also thought WWE did the right thing in releasing him given his health problems (like Yoko towards the end of his run he really did get to the stage I was worried about him having a heart-attack which isn't something I want to think about watching a wrestling show).


Yeah, it's a shame, but he really needed to lose weight - not much, by all accounts, but obviously it was enough to be of concern to WWE, and you can't really blame them. Think it was something about him actually refusing to lose weight, but am not sure about that.


If you watch his match with 'Taker on Youtube, it's surprisingly competitive for a 'Taker-midcarder/upper-midcarder match. V gets a lot of offence in, and UT sells quite a bit for him. Definitely made him look like a threat.

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New vignette, just aired on tonight's RAW:

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler


They showed the shack again, then the door blew open and the guy with the long coat and boots is stood outside. 2.21.11 flashed up at a 90 degree angle this time and it ended with Johnny Cash singing 'There ain't no grave can hold my body down'.


So basically, it IS Undertaker and WWE have made some bizarre decision to promote his return like we haven't seen five of them in the last three years - in turn, tricking many of us into getting our hopes up foolishly.



[close spoiler]



EDIT: Christ that was quick

Edited by Dingbat
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It's clearly Undertaker because of the 'There ain't no grave can hold my body down' you say?!?


Could still be Sting... Remember what the Crow Sting gimmick was based on? The movie The Crow! In which somebody who got murdered returned from his grave to avenge his dead!


Brilliant mindgames from WWE!



(And of course it's Taker... Just messing... But still... lol...)

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