Happ Hazzard Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 But Meltzer was reporting on MMA long before UFC was as succesful as WWE. It's not like he just jumped on the bandwagon in 2005. The first mention of UFC is in the most recent archive issue on the site, from late 1993. Â There's a clear crossover in stuff like Pancrase with Ken Shamrock. Then Ken Shamrock went to UFC, then to WWE, then back to MMA, back to wrestling again for a while, then back to MMA. Aree you really saying that the Wrestling Observer should have just ignored him when he wasn't in pre-determined wrestling? Â Should Dave not have covered PRIDE because of the shoot fights involved in it? Â What about the WM 15 match between Butterbean and Bart Gunn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 27, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2011 So a group of people who voted John Cena as best wrestler and Vickie Guerrero as best non-wrestler FIT the smark stereotype? I'm going to need a new guidebook. Â Innit. Â I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 In what way is football exactly the same sport as cricket? Â I'm pretty sure Happ's point was that it doesn't happen, whereas top level UFC guys have competed at high levels in pro wrestling and vice versa. Â I know what his point was. My point was that it's not a reasonable comparison, since MMA and pro wrestling ARE the same sport. Â As for talking about the Koscheck "babyface turn", it's just using pro wrestling language because ultimately it's the same art - creating recognisable and interesting characters, building up their rivalries and then persuading people to buy into it. If Koscheck isn't really an asshole and is just playing a role to build up a match, in what way is it any different from pro wrestling? Â Also, PRIDE. Â Also, Lou Thesz. Â Also, June Byers and Mildred Burke. Â Also, Pancrase, RINGS, Shooto, UWF, UWF-I and more. Â Also, Gotch, Hackenschmidt and more. Â Also, all the Snakepit guys, Horst Hoffman and many others around Europe. Â MMA AND PRO WRESTLING ARE THE SAME THING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 27, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2011 And rollerderby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 And rollerderby. Â Nah, that's just because Dave grew up wanting to cop a feel of Ann Calvello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Now that is a stereotype. Nice one, Richie. Â It does fit the stereotype I agree, however I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cum Doctor Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 If I was gonna have anyone from the indies as my wrestler of the year it'd be Kevin Steen. Davey Richards is superb if you ask me but he's infuriating sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted January 27, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2011 In what way is football exactly the same sport as cricket? Â I'm pretty sure Happ's point was that it doesn't happen, whereas top level UFC guys have competed at high levels in pro wrestling and vice versa. Â I know what his point was. My point was that it's not a reasonable comparison, since MMA and pro wrestling ARE the same sport. Â You're going to have to explain this one. You seem to be saying exactly the same thing that Happ is saying. Â Top level stars in football/cricket don't crossover because they're not the same sport. Whereas MMA and UFC do crossover because they're so close. Â What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted January 27, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2011 You're going to have to explain this one. You seem to be saying exactly the same thing that Happ is saying. Top level stars in football/cricket don't crossover because they're not the same sport. Whereas MMA and UFC do crossover because they're so close.  What am I missing?  Who has actually crossed over and done it well, beside Lenser and Shamrock its not really been a continual success story unless I'm forgetting lot's of people.  And don't any one say Dan Severn, as much as I love him his pro wrestling matches were the pits. I'm sure more people have moved from American football to Wrestling but its doesn't mean they are the same.  Lots of things are promoted in the way wrestling is, like MMA and Boxing as have been said, but that some people in this thread are claiming they are the same is mad in my eyes. Both may be driven to a degree by the characters behind the matches but ultimately they work so very differently. I enjoy both, but for different reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted January 27, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2011 You're going to have to explain this one. You seem to be saying exactly the same thing that Happ is saying. Top level stars in football/cricket don't crossover because they're not the same sport. Whereas MMA and UFC do crossover because they're so close.  What am I missing?  Who has actually crossed over and done it well, beside Lenser and Shamrock its not really been a continual success story unless I'm forgetting lot's of people.  And don't any one say Dan Severn, as much as I love him his pro wrestling matches were the pits. I'm sure more people have moved from American football to Wrestling but its doesn't mean they are the same.  Lots of things are promoted in the way wrestling is, like MMA and Boxing as have been said, but that some people in this thread are claiming they are the same is mad in my eyes. Both may be driven to a degree by the characters behind the matches but ultimately they work so very differently. I enjoy both, but for different reasons.  I think there are similarities. I don't fully agree with the top level stars thing, because the closest one I can think of after those two is Lashley (however, we'll see how Kimbo Slice does in pro wrestling). However, the fact that UFC seems to be able to book more consistently, and make better use of its stars than a company that can, by it's very nature, fix the results of the matches in order to set things up... that's just insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 So a group of people who voted John Cena as best wrestler and Vickie Guerrero as best non-wrestler FIT the smark stereotype? I'm going to need a new guidebook. Â Innit. Â I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 This is probably true, and I wonder if it annoys the Meltzer types when Dana White talks about how WWE and UFC are not the same or about how he wouldn't dare try and go up against WWE on Monday night telly and such. Why would Dana White say that WWE and UFC are the same thing? UFC is trying to promote themselves as something worth watching, and worth advertisers paying money to sponsor. It's no different to Vince going to out of his way to differentiate the WWF from traditional "pro-rassling" from the mid 80s onwards. Why would he try and go up against WWE on Monday nights? UFC has a succesful business model. Trying to do weekly events would kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted January 27, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2011 FEUD OF THE YEARÂ 1. KEVIN STEEN VS. EL GENERICO (299)2,004 Â 2. Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen (107)1,036 Â 3. Quinton Jackson vs. Rashad Evans (125)972 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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