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Is HBK the best in-ring performer WWE history?


TheOne

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I'm in two minds really, the top one is either Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle for me. If it's the top ten (Modern Era, since around 1984), i'd add the following:

Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, The Undertaker, Rob Van Dam, Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H. That's not the top ten of entertaining superstars, otherwise Hulk Hogan, The Rock, John Cena etc go on the list.

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Interesting stuff there from Meltzer etc, and I do agree that once you take into account everything else, Shawn probably wouldn't be the "greatest wrestler" there has ever been.

 

However, in terms of "best in-ring performer" I'd definitely give him a very high placing, if not top.

 

It's definitely down to what you enjoy more. Does having a longer career automatically make you 'better' than others? No, obviously not. What about different styles etc? Does Hogan's style of wrestling in his prime have any less worth than Michaels' or Bret Hart's etc? I don't know.

 

For me, personally, it is down to Michaels or Hart. Someone like Chris Benoit was the new Bret Hart to me, and we all know what happened there. Even Kurt Angle has performed at a high level for many years now, and I can re-watch so many of his matches. I do have a long-term fondness for HBK and The Hitman though, and that does come into play in the same way that I still care far more for WWE than TNA.

 

If it comes down to consistency and ability, then there's no doubt that Shawn had it all. And no matter WHY he was at that level, he did do it at a higher level than many others for a lot longer, and I do think that has to come into play. You can't really think "well, so and so was awesome, but he didn't get booked very well!" or else we'll never have an end to the debate.

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a great in ring performer has charisma and gets thr croud behind him or hating him. shawns done both better than anyone I can think of. anyone rating Mr roboto above hbk probably leave their pool room door open at all times.

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Well, not only does that comment make no sense whatsoever, but it's also a little naive.

 

While I agree that, again, it comes down to personal preference, it's not the only part of being a good 'performer' - some wrestlers were fantastic performers in the art of technical wrestling, and that's not really a style that is down to charisma. Plus guys like Benoit had a more 'intense' persona, and I can't see how the crowd were not into his WWE run.

 

In fact, I'd argue he was a far better wrestler than a lot of other technical guys because it takes a lot to get a crowd into submission based matches when they're used to other arguably more exciting styles.

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I love these. Nobody can ever say yes he is the best of all time. We all have out opinions and favourites. I've never liked Shawn but always been able to see how good he was. He's top 3 in my book but was never, nor will he ever be better than Bret Hart.

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In my opinion it will have to be Shawn Michaels, whilst some others are up there too there's no doubting when someone says to me "the best in-ring performer in WWE history" I think of Michaels.

 

I remember when my cousin used to be really excited telling me about how Michaels used to do all of these incredible things in the ring, looking like he never took a break running around non stop. He was telling me about Michaels in the 90s, before his return, I remember talking to him about how amazing Shawn Michaels was and he said that to me, saying he was even better than that in the 90s. I never actually saw him in the 90s though as I started watching in 98/99 just after he'd retired for the first time but I've got all three of the DVD sets on him now and do agree whilst he was still incredible now in the ring, back then he was somehow even better again.

 

Just look at it really, Undertaker has faced so many guys at Wrestlemania, his match at Wrestlemania, especially in recent years is billed as one of the big ones with the streak on the line. All of the guys he's faced, guys like Ric Flair, Randy Orton, Edge, Triple H, yet out of all of these guys the match fans raved about was his one with Micheals, which is probably the main reason as to why WWE wanted to have a rematch between the two at the following year's Wrestlemania. Also just thinking people mentioned Kurt Angle as one of the guys who might be better than Michaels, I remember their match at Wrestlemania 21, again a lot of fans were raving about it, is it just a coincidence that Michaels seems to have brought questionably the best performances out of these two guys at Wrestlemania?

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Whilst we may have seen greater technicians, such as Angle and Benoit (Bret also perhaps) over the years, there has been no performer, past or present, from WWE or otherwise that has entered the sheer number of world class performances as Michaels has. Whereas Hogan may have had more power over the crowd, he couldn't touch HBK in terms of pure wrestling ability. Whereas Rock or Austin may have been far superior all rounders, when you take into account their microphone ability, drawing power and ability to carry the company, neither of them could claim to be greater than Michaels in the ring. Though I believe that there have been superstars who have been able to put on a greater match than Michaels could, non have been involved in so many classic bouts, and over such a large period of time.

 

I think that (barring Hogan), Michaels is in a league of his own when taking into account his ability to draw such an immense level of emotion from the live crowd. I don't think that there's another superstar out there who could have led Flair to such a gripping and enthralling match back at WM24.

 

For me, when everything's taken into account, Shawn Michaels has to be the greatest in ring performer WWE has ever had.

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He is certainly up there, no question, but whether he is number one i'm not sure.

 

In terms of performance level, ring generalship and giving 100% every time (not necessarily being the best technically), then there are very few I can think of who can match him in this.

 

In no particular order I would have as the top in-ring performing guys ever HBK, Angle, Bret, Owen, Curt Hennig, Rick Rude, Steamboat, Eddie Guerrero, Flair, Barry Windham and Randy Savage. I include Flair and Windham for their NWA/WCW runs only, so not really within the topic but they deserve a mention.

 

Edit - add Million Dollar Man to that list. Top, top worker.

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Whilst we may have seen greater technicians, such as Angle and Benoit (Bret also perhaps) over the years, there has been no performer, past or present, from WWE or otherwise that has entered the sheer number of world class performances as Michaels has. Whereas Hogan may have had more power over the crowd, he couldn't touch HBK in terms of pure wrestling ability. Whereas Rock or Austin may have been far superior all rounders, when you take into account their microphone ability, drawing power and ability to carry the company, neither of them could claim to be greater than Michaels in the ring. Though I believe that there have been superstars who have been able to put on a greater match than Michaels could, non have been involved in so many classic bouts, and over such a large period of time.

 

I think that (barring Hogan), Michaels is in a league of his own when taking into account his ability to draw such an immense level of emotion from the live crowd. I don't think that there's another superstar out there who could have led Flair to such a gripping and enthralling match back at WM24.

 

For me, when everything's taken into account, Shawn Michaels has to be the greatest in ring performer WWE has ever had.

Sums up my own feelings. Nobody else has had the range of great matches that Michaels has, and he's been having them longer than anyone else. Though he's not my favourite wrestler of all time, I'd say that in-ring he's the best. There are very few other wrestlers that I can go back and watch whole matches of out of context and knowing the result.

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His run from 2002-10 alone makes him at the very least the best wrestler of that decade. Back problems or not, some of the stuff he's pulled out of the bag during his second stint has been nothing short of first class. The Wrestlemania matches have obviously been excellent (yes, even the match with Vince was top entertainment) but there's a whole catalogue of greatness from various shows during that time period. There was nothing he couldn't do. He had good matches with virtually everybody and his promos were a thing of beauty, even if he was just goofing around with some of the DX stuff.

 

As for greatest of all time, I'd say he's definitely in with a shout, but Austin would get the nod over him for me and possibly Flair too. But then that's entirely subjective, different people and different tastes I guess. But certainly in the last ten years, he's owned the decade without a shadow of a doubt.

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Largely because of longevity, I think Shawn as the WWE's best in-ring performer ever is a no brainer. There were others who, on their day, were perhaps slightly better than him. None of them managed to have runs like he did, however, as someone who delivered in the ring to an excellent standard for eighteen years in a 22 year period. Savage, Bret, Angle and Benoit were every bit as good as Shawn on their best day, but Shawn had far, far more first class performances.

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Yeah, weighing it all up, i'd agree with that. Guess it depends what criteria you use to define 'best in-ring performer' though.

 

Maybe not solely based on his first run, but his 2nd spell seals it for me. Pretty much all the top WWF matches throughout the 00s involved Shawn Michaels, it can't just be coincidence. Bret Hart and Eddy Guerrero would be pushing him close imo, but the sheer longevity that Michaels had swings it in his favour.

 

He could do it all, and he worked such a high impact, athletic style, over such a sustained period that it was almost a marvel in itself. He 's very much in the same mould as someone like the Great Sasuke for example in that you're left scratching your head how he can still manage to walk today.

 

He worked the most spectacular style, had such strong charisma whether working heel or face, his matches were usually pretty solid from a logic point of view (the tired old 'nip-up' criticism is a bit of as cop out imo), and he just that that talent of being able to generate excitement and electrify a crowd. His retirement has also left a huge, obvious void in the WWE imo.

 

So fuck, he used to be/maybe still is a bit of a dick, but i can't see how that would be a huge issue for a fan who tunes in to watch him perform on tv.

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Bret Hart. Shawn's got the larger body of work thanks to '02-'10 but a lot of that period is severely overrated and does not hold a candle to his best 90's work and even The Rockers best matches.

 

Limiting it to 'only WWF/E', I'd take Bret over Shawn. Quality over quantity, that's not to say Shawn doesn't have a shitload of quality, I just think Brets work was better. Shawn is easily the most reliable guy to stick on the 'big-stage' for epic-ness and is undoubtedly one of the best ever, I just think Bret Hart is superior.

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I think MoChatra sums it up best. On their day, others might be better than Michaels. For me, Bret and Benoit immedietely come to mind, but Shawn has been putting it world class performances for a long period of time. This is someone who retired after wrestling in the match of the year (an accolade he also won for at least the 2 previous years)- so you have to wonder how many more great matches he could've had if he carried on. That just goes to show how good he was, the fact that he still could've gone on and put on a blinder. I think of him as wrestlings version of Ryan Giggs (which breaks me to say this s an Arsenal fan)- consistently good over such a long time. Some say Giggs has been at his best over the last couple of years than ever, some also say the same of Michels. As Andy Gray says- form is temporary but class is forever.

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