The 'passing of the torch'

[KingOfMetal]

Every year it happens, and every year the same thing is said.

 

Assuming he's able to work Wrestlemania, Undertaker will not lose. The streak means too much to the Undertaker charcter to be ended for the sake of trying to get someone else over. The only time it could/would have worked have worked was against Randy Orton at WM 21 (I think it was) when he was 'the Legend Killer'

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

The Undertaker will never drop a victory at Wrestlemania. Ever.

 

That's his lasting legacy.

 

Personally I feel he could drop a victory on his very last Mania. Once the Undertaker is gone from regular competition, I see them touting "The Undertakers 25* WrestleMania Winning Streak" just as easily. Having the undefeated streak is great to promote a match, but no so essential once he is retired.

 

So I say its 50/50 in regards to whether he ever loses, and is just my opinion.

 

* Or whatever the number ends up being.

[Cobra1000]

but thats the thing, the streak is worth exactly nothing when Undertaker retires. Why not let someone be the man that ended the undertakers career and streak in the same night?

[The Invisible Boy]

The Undertaker will never drop a victory at Wrestlemania. Ever.

 

That's his lasting legacy.

 

Personally I feel he could drop a victory on his very last Mania. Once the Undertaker is gone from regular competition, I see them touting "The Undertakers 25* WrestleMania Winning Streak" just as easily. Having the undefeated streak is great to promote a match, but no so essential once he is retired.

 

So I say its 50/50 in regards to whether he ever loses, and is just my opinion.

 

* Or whatever the number ends up being.

 

I agree totally and thisis what I was trying to get across in my first post. How would Taker's undefeated Wrestlemania streak help WWE once he is retired? Whereas Taker's last ever match (at Wrestlemania) against the guy being built up as the next big star in wrestling, if Taker beats him it'll put a huge dent in this guy's career and fans will look at him as another main eventer who couldn't end Taker's Wrestlemania streak. I think everyone kind of expects Taker to win at Wrestlemania now too, now imagine his last Wrestlemania match against the next big star in wrestling, if he wins he'll have never been defeated at Wrestlemania (this is what the fans want to happen, they are pretty sure it will happen but if it does it won't benefit anyone, Taker won't care, his career is over now, WWE will have a wrestler who has never been defeated at Wrestlemania but he is retired and they have their next big star who is now just another guy who couldn't defeat Taker at Wrestlemania) but if he loses fans will be shocked, it'll be something they will always remember and his opponent will shoot right into the void Taker will have left in the main event. Then they could build this guy up as the one to beat at Wrestlemania and he could begin to have his own streak there.

 

As far as Miz goes, I mentioned him as he is looking like he may be one of the guys who will break through in 2011, he has already won the WWE Title and 2011 may be the year when he finally becomes a credible main eventer, he already has all of the skills on the microphone. Having watched wrestling for over a decade I do realise that the current situation WWE is in now is no where near as great as it was during the Attitude Era and I would have much preffered Taker to lose his streak to a wrestler with the same skills as the guys who were around during that period but someone who was on the cusp of becoming the next big star but unfortunately his career is coming to an end now as opposed to a period like that so we just have to make the best of what we have now.

 

As for Alberto Del Rio, I am not a big fan of his at all, I see lots of guys on here raving about him but I just can't buy into it, he seems like a Latino rip off of JBL and I just can't get into that character, it worked well with JBL but with him it just isn't working as well in my opinion, the whole Ricardo thing is quite original but the whole Alberto Del Rio character just doesn't do it for me. The last guy who was getting this sort of reception from people on here when he first debuted who I couldn't buy into was MVP, people were saying how he would be in the main event and so on but to me MVP was always just a mid carder at best and this is exactly how I see Del Rio. MVP is gone now and he never really broke into the main event and I see Del Rio possibly heading the same way in a few years.

[KingOfMetal]

The Undertaker will never drop a victory at Wrestlemania. Ever.

 

That's his lasting legacy.

 

Personally I feel he could drop a victory on his very last Mania. Once the Undertaker is gone from regular competition, I see them touting "The Undertakers 25* WrestleMania Winning Streak" just as easily. Having the undefeated streak is great to promote a match, but no so essential once he is retired.

 

So I say its 50/50 in regards to whether he ever loses, and is just my opinion.

 

* Or whatever the number ends up being.

 

I agree totally and thisis what I was trying to get across in my first post. How would Taker's undefeated Wrestlemania streak help WWE once he is retired? Whereas Taker's last ever match (at Wrestlemania) against the guy being built up as the next big star in wrestling, if Taker beats him it'll put a huge dent in this guy's career and fans will look at him as another main eventer who couldn't end Taker's Wrestlemania streak. I think everyone kind of expects Taker to win at Wrestlemania now too, now imagine his last Wrestlemania match against the next big star in wrestling, if he wins he'll have never been defeated at Wrestlemania (this is what the fans want to happen, they are pretty sure it will happen but if it does it won't benefit anyone, Taker won't care, his career is over now, WWE will have a wrestler who has never been defeated at Wrestlemania but he is retired and they have their next big star who is now just another guy who couldn't defeat Taker at Wrestlemania) but if he loses fans will be shocked, it'll be something they will always remember and his opponent will shoot right into the void Taker will have left in the main event. Then they could build this guy up as the one to beat at Wrestlemania and he could begin to have his own streak there.

 

 

because it sets the benchmark for your next big star who is going to be around for years to come. Hypothetically, lets say that this year is Taker's last WM and the streak finishes at 19-0 (the 19th win over whoever). Now, if WWE are wanting to take a young new star (The Miz and Jack Swagger are the only names that spring straight to mind who have made one appearance so far and won)and build them up over a number of years (by which time Taker will have been inducted into the Hall Of Fame), they can throw it out there that "person X is X-0 at Wrestlemania. The only person to go underfeated at Wrestlemania is WWE Hall Of Famer, The Undertaker".

[Super Cena]

There's no way that the Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak will ever be ended, plain and simple. In the past ten years he's beaten Triple H, Flair, Orton, Edge, Batista and HBK at the event. He's defeated some of the biggest names that the industry has ever seen to amass this streak and it would be murder for him to finally lose it to a guy such as The Miz. No disrespect to Miz whatsoever, but (IF) the streak was to be ended, it would have to be to a guy who is in the absolute upper echelons of the business; for example the likes of Cena, a returning Rock or Lesnar etc.

 

I remember a topic I started on here a while ago asking what people thought was the most illustrious prize in professional wrestling (headlining WM; winning the Royal Rumble; becoming World champ etc..) and a good number of the people who replied agreed (myself included) that it would be to be the person finally who ends Taker's WM streak (if it were to happen, of course).

 

If the streak were to be ended, then here's my thoughts on who should or shouldn't be the guy to do it:

 

The Miz: For reasons already pointed out in here, The Miz is just not the calibre of talent that would justify beating Taker at WM. I admit that he's an entertaining champ and is successful in the role. However, even if Miz were to excel in this main event spot for the next seven or eight years, I could never envisage him surpassing the level of success that the likes of Edge, Jeff Hardy or Jericho achieved. If 'Legend Killer' Orton couldn't drop Taker at Mania 21, then I don't think that Miz should be the man to do so now. Which brings me onto...

 

Randy Orton: Over the past half decade we've been trained by WWE to presume that no matter how over Orton may be, or however much he is pushed, 'The Viper' will inevitably lose whatever momentum he has attained at some point down the line (Whether that be down to bad booking, his own doing or by taking a pasting from '10 Men' Shane O'Mac is a debate for a different day). Thus, though it would be very plausible for Orton to go over The Deadman at Wrestlemania in the grand scheme of things, whatever momentum he would garner from the victory would no doubt have fizzled out by the time Summerslam came around.

 

Alberto Del Rio: I've not seen enough of this guy to make a 100% accurate opinion of him, but from what I have seen, the 'Mexican JBL' analogy that someone posted in here before sums it up perfectly for me. To me, he does have all the right traits to become a superstar in the next few years, but I don't for one minute think that he's the next coming of a Flair or Michaels - level star. Three or four years is a very long time in this sport and a lot of things can change, but for the time being I'll leave ADR out of my picks for 'guys that could or should be given the honour'.

 

John Cena: I think most people would agree that if one man were to finally end Taker's streak, then it would have to be John Cena. I remember a discussion on here a few months back where people were talking about Cena going into a Wrestlemania match against The Deadman either as a newly turned heel, or to turn during the match. Originally I stated that despite turning heel, Cena should still do the job; However Ian_Hitmanhart and a couple of others (PITCOS I think was one of them) made some good points about the fact that Cena would have to go over Taker for a heel turn to be successful. There would be so many possibilities and different ways that this match could be built to and played out, and I believe that a Wrestlemania with a one on one match between Cena and Taker heading the bill could draw one of the biggest buy rates ever.

 

Brock Lesnar: If the former WWE and UFC champ were to return to the Dub, then I think one of the roads that they could go down would be to build up a Lesnar versus Taker WM match, perhaps with Lesnar making a surprise return in the Rumble. However, no matter how exciting the build up to the match would be (and also the actual match), there would be no way in a million years that Taker would do the job. We (the internet fans) would know what the inevitable outcome would be, but I do think that they could build Lesnar up to being a true threat to Undertaker's streak to the masses.

 

The Rock: As exciting as the match would be, and no matter how many people would order the event to see this match alone, the 'Hollywood Actor' would have to do the job. (Pretty much the same could be said for Hogan).

 

Sting: This is any long-time wrestling fan's wet dream. Sting versus Taker at Wrestlemania. The only thing is, Sting hasn't been in the common fan's conscience for the best part of the past decade. I'm a big pro wrestling fan, and having only first started watching wrestling in 2000, I'm ashamed to admit that Sting joining TNA was the first time that I properly saw him in action. Sure I'd heard and read about him, but the point I'm getting at is that Sting isn't as well known a name as many people seem to believe he is. A feud ending at Summerslam would be fuckin' superb, but I don't think that they could build Sting up to being a true threat to Taker's streak. Case in point: Ask any fan under the age of 15 not named Dillkid or ThePhenom what Sting's finishers are and I'd put money on the fact that they wouldn't have a clue.

 

Triple H simply wouldn't need the win and a Kane victory would be ridiculous even with all their history. Edge or Batista have already been there and lost and I don't think Angle would achieve enough if he came back and ended the streak. Barrett is one guy that I wouldn't like to hazard a guess on at the moment, as I love the guy but I've seen enough potentially major stars come and go without ever making a lasting legacy.

[The Invisible Boy]

I think one way that could really make fans believe that Taker might lose at Wrestlemania is to big it up as his last ever match and then he'll retire, such as making it clear Taker is pretty banged up and only has one match left in him but have him win the Title either at Royal Rumble or just before it or maybe even at the Elimination Chamber (if I'm correct in thinking that's now the event between the Rumble and Wrestlemania as opposed to No Way Out) and casual fans who don't look at the internet will be wondering what will happen if Taker wins, they will be thinking along the lines of he'll have to drop the belt and so on. If they did go down this route and Taker won at Wrestlemania they could drag out the storyline surrounding the Title and have Taker make appearances but never wrestle then come to a decision of what to do with the Title. I don't really have the whole thing planned out in my head properly but I'd never go along the lines of the belt is vacated let's have a tournament, I'd prefer it to be something really original and something that would fit in with Taker's character. Maybe have him hold the Title hostage and have the fans turn on him as he becomes a heel and forms a new Ministry and then go down the similar route of the Higher Power storyline, mentioning this person will fill his spot and take over from him, how he is mentoring someone and grooming them into the new leader of the Ministry for when he finally leaves. Then as a total swerve it could turn out to be whoever he faced at Wrestlemania but with a darker edge to them, therefore meaning he would never have lost at Wrestlemania but is still passing the torch to someone who is considered great enough to try to fill the void in the main event left by Taker and become the next big star. Although then there's the whole thing of how would he crown them the new Champion, just giving them the Title wouldn't make a statement at all, it would have to be won by them in a big, well publicised match against someone who is a big star themselves. Maybe have Vince or whoever the GM is finally come out just as Taker announces who this mystery new leader is and then say they have the paperwork to say the Championship has to be fought for to be won, not just handed over, then they announce their opponent. There are lots of flaws in this idea already but it was only a quick thought.

[neil's bitch]

Every year it happens, and every year the same thing is said.

 

Assuming he's able to work Wrestlemania, Undertaker will not lose. The streak means too much to the Undertaker charcter to be ended for the sake of trying to get someone else over. The only time it could/would have worked have worked was against Randy Orton at WM 21 (I think it was) when he was 'the Legend Killer'

 

See i didnt think it could of.

 

My reason is that although he was still sort of in "Legend killer" part of his carrear, he hadnt actualy stuck to it, to the degree that he once did. For example, he started killing legends every week at one point. By this time he would face a legend every now and again.

 

Randy also at this time was a bit stale, (at very least in storyline terms), in which i think the best thing he was doing was hanging about during a benoiot/booker T storyline, either that or something equally as cack. Basically he gone from semi/main event guy on raw, to looking a bit cack on smackdown (all because of the triple h thing when he lost the title and looked really bad in doing so.).

 

The build up to the match was good, and this was most likely randys biggest match, but at no point did i ever think was ever going to win. And to be fair, if he had.....what would he have done from there? Say he killed the biggest legend of them all, and go after the relevent title on smackdown at that point? most likely, would of he had ever then gotten to his viper gimmick he has now? I doubt it.

 

The only person i ever thought might win it was Shawn at WM25, mainly due to the fact shawn didnt need it, although he was a company guy who they could give it to if needed. Imagine if they gave it to barrat/del rio and they fucked off at the end of the year due to bad contracts/otherwise? It'd be wasted. (That and the fact when taker did the dive, i really did think he either broke his neck or killed himself, thus i very much belived shawn could do it.). In the re-match, it was a no brainer about taker winning it, but it was a fun match.

 

the only person i could see winning it any time soon is cena, again not that he needs it, but because hes the only guy i can think of that if he won, he would carry it until the day he dies......in WWE. Plus if it did it whilst heel turning, it'd easily make him the biggest heel in WWE, most likely of all time, so in that sense he does need it, for a turn to Ultra-heat heel.

[Paul]

How about Dolph Ziggler?

[themagman]

For Undi to maintain his streak he doesn't have to have a convincing victory. How about he faces someone like Barrett but wins by DQ. Barrett could give Undi a beating like he's never had before but it causes him to be disqualified. Undi keeps his record but Barrett gets an enormous push.

[undercover elephant]

Undertaker specific in terms of passing the torch, this comes up fairly often and my feelings are always the same.

 

For Undertaker to lose at WrestleMania the man that would beat him would have to be credible enough but also still have something to gain by it, someone who is a star but for whom the win would still enhance their standing. That's part of the reason I never thought Shawn Michaels would do it. He didn't need it. In fact the only guy I've though might have done it in the last ten years was Randy Orton at WM21.

 

On the roster right now there are two men that I would be happy to see do it :

 

(2) The Miz. Like it or not, he's the champ, and in terms of character / promos / working a crowd, I think he's superb. He could make a reputation off beating

 

I'd rather see Nick Nemeth instead of Mizanin in that position.

[RepoMan]

You used their real names. You're well smart.

[CleetusVanDamme]

See i didnt think it could of.

 

My reason is that although he was still sort of in "Legend killer" part of his carrear, he hadnt actualy stuck to it, to the degree that he once did. For example, he started killing legends every week at one point. By this time he would face a legend every now and again.

 

Randy also at this time was a bit stale, (at very least in storyline terms), in which i think the best thing he was doing was hanging about during a benoiot/booker T storyline, either that or something equally as cack. Basically he gone from semi/main event guy on raw, to looking a bit cack on smackdown (all because of the triple h thing when he lost the title and looked really bad in doing so.).

 

The build up to the match was good, and this was most likely randys biggest match, but at no point did i ever think was ever going to win. And to be fair, if he had.....what would he have done from there? Say he killed the biggest legend of them all, and go after the relevent title on smackdown at that point? most likely, would of he had ever then gotten to his viper gimmick he has now? I doubt it.

 

Wrong.

 

How could he have went from being a "main event guy on raw" to being "cack on smackdown" when Orton was on Raw before and after WM21, as a main eventer

 

He was still in the "Legend Killer" part of his "carrear"

 

The Booker/Benoit stuff wasn't for another year

 

 

Are you still planning on writing a book?. I'd hate to be the poor sod proof-reading that mess.

[ricky slatter]

The Undertaker will never drop a victory at Wrestlemania. Ever.

 

That's his lasting legacy.

 

Whole-heartedly agree here.

 

If he loses at any WM to anybody I think it tarnishes the streak, he's been too loyal to WWE for them to get him to end it.

 

Will never happen.

[air_raid]

If he loses at any WM to anybody I think it tarnishes the streak, he's been too loyal to WWE for them to get him to end it.

 

But he's reputedly quite the "company man." Surely his last act of putting "the business" first would be to make somebody else a megastar? I wouldn't put it past him to volunteer to lose when he knows his time is up.