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Bluetonic

John Cena injured

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The problem is that they CAN get that audience back, they've just gotta stop producing years after years of shite. Interesting real characters not cartoonish jokes. Wrestling is in its worst state ever in the WWE, the wrestlers are not up to scratch with years gone by, the storylines suck, the matches for the most part are much weaker. Its a big chain of mediocrity that people are willing to let happen.

 

The direction to focus the product on kids was basically them giving up and saying "we don't know how to make TV for the 18-35 demographic anymore" Anyone could get kids to love them, because they'll buy into anything usually.

They can't get that audience back, most of it will have just outgrown wrestling. In fact, most of the audience disappeared when WWE were still doing exactly what they from 1998-2000. It was short termist stuff. Once you've pushed the envelope, what do you do next? WWE tried to rehash it over and over through the last decade to little success. They've had to work on a formula where they can make money from other means to be profitable.

 

Regardless of what they promote, that massive audience isn't coming back. They could definitely attract more viewers and more PPV buyers but not that much more. The audience isn't there. If there was a massive audience wanting to see "name" wrestlers aimed at the 18035 demographic, TNA would get much bigger ratings.

 

And blaming Cena is just silly. I thought the same when I read PowerSlam's laughable article last month. The problem is that WWE hasn't made enough stars. Blaming the one star they have made in the last 5 years is silly. They've never been so short on star power, that needs addressing.

 

The problem is anyone over 16 doesn't see Cena as a star. He will never compare to Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle, Bret and countless others. He's not the top of his profession and never will be. Until they start pushing guys consistantly and not canning them after they fall out of favour they never will get another massive star. If you ask the majority of people who've fallen out of love with WWE or wrestling and you mention John Cena they will agree that he's a poor poor replacement for a main eventer. He is not the whole problem, but he's a focal point of the problem.

 

Its not 2007 anymore either, I'm not anti Cena because "its cool". I just don't like him, don't like his work in the ring, don't like his mic skills (or lack thereof) and I don't like his character in general. Some people find that hard to accept because they have a raging hardon for him and his immature shit antics. I'm tired bored and sick of the same old garbage, shit Cena comedy and him overcoming the odds every fucking time, there was zero point in the Nexus if Cena alone got rid of them.

 

Theres a massive lack of variety in WWE even with a brand split. Nobody seems fresh, its very stale and the matches are exceptionally poor. Its like wrestling has been dumbed down and the importance of it forgotten. I couldn't remember the last 4 Wrestlemania main events where I can remember everyone from 1-8 before. Same with the rumble winners. Does anyone really believe WWE is a better wrestling product in 2010 then it was in the late 80's/early 90's late 90's/early 00's?

 

I'm sure there will be some hilarious clown in here with a 1 word reply or a funny gif though, trust those Cena fans. :rolleyes:

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The problem is anyone over 16 doesn't see Cena as a star. He will never compare to Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle,

I did a poll on here for superstar of the decade including all those names and Cena won, not many people on the UKFF are under 16. Your statement is wrong, that is not an opinion either, that is a fact.

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Not with that attitude. Of course they can attract big audiences again and be able to appeal to a wide spectrum of age groups. There will always be that opportunity. They can achieve that again, whether John Cena is on top or not.

 

People having too many options because there is genuine 'real' competition means nothing. Yes, there's similarities but really the sport of MMA and the TV show of WWE are two completely different animals. UFC only really began to find success when they took ideas from what has made Pro-Wrestling work so well in the past. I enjoy both MMA and pro-wrestling but for mainly different reasons personally. For me, i've always viewed wrestling/WWE and enjoyed it the most as comic-book come to life, larger than life characters, personalities and presence. I've never viewed it as real sporting competition or looked to get that out of it. I don't think many people do in general either and haven't for a long time.

 

People don't care that it's pre-determined, i hate to use the film comparison but it's true to an extent that you can enjoy a film or a soap knowing that the events you're seeing aren't real. Pro-wrestling is the same, so long as it's good enough to capture your imagination, lose yourself in the moment and suspend your disbelief. Pro-wrestling hasn't been viewed as a sport since before the 80's, it's it's own animal entirely and doesn't fit into any grouping. The physical talent is more than there in heaps to produce impressive feats of athleticism more than it ever had before and to produce exciting matches.

I'm not talking about wrestling been fake. We all knew it was fake when we were kids. We didn't know how it worked though, we didn't know who everyone really was and what was going to happen before it did. There's no magic to wrestling now. You can't simply compare it to comic books or TV shows because they don't have the stiugma that wrestling has. Wrestling will always be considered phoney, as if it's trying to be real when it isn't.

 

What's missing is the personality, the character. Hogan, Piper, Andre, Warrior, Savage, Flair, Heenan, Perfect, etc... Austin, Foley, Rock, Hart, Undertaker, Michaels, McMahon, Hall, Nash, etc were all overflowing with character and/or personality. Everyone was identifiable and watching one show you'd know within moments exactly what they was all about. WWE feels so controlled now (although i understand why it is) that those elements struggle to shine through. I believe it's those elements not being apparent is where WWE fails to capture an audience. It's something UFC now do exceptionally well focusing on and making the audience aware of. Someone flicking through channels, flashy offence or the bright lights or impressive physiques may catch someones eye but it's then being captivated by a character or story that will keep them there.

I agree with everything you say here and when they do get it right, I'm sure they'll draw bigger audiences than what they currently do. They won't ever have that sort of boom again though, I'm certain of that. The last boom period was successful because of circumstance. All those childhood wrestling fans at the right age to get back into it once WCW and the WWF offered them something worth following. Wrestling fever sweeping through schools and colleges. I don't think they'll ever have the basic audience to capture that imagination in the same way. Certainly not to that extent. In years gone by, you had millions of wrestling fans all over the US, all watching wrestling every week in their region. That's long gone. The WWE are suffering from monopolising pro-wrestling.

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The problem is anyone over 16 doesn't see Cena as a star. He will never compare to Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle,

I did a poll on here for superstar of the decade including all those names and Cena won, not many people on the UKFF are under 16. Your statement is wrong, that is not an opinion either, that is a fact.

 

Sure, Cena was better then Shawn Michaels in the past decade. Sure. :laugh:

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The problem is anyone over 16 doesn't see Cena as a star. He will never compare to Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle,

I did a poll on here for superstar of the decade including all those names and Cena won, not many people on the UKFF are under 16. Your statement is wrong, that is not an opinion either, that is a fact.

 

Sure, Cena was better then Shawn Michaels in the past decade. Sure. :laugh:

That's not the point, you said nobody over 16 views Cena as a star, evidently that poll proved you wrong.

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The problem is anyone over 16 doesn't see Cena as a star. He will never compare to Rock, Hogan, Austin, Taker, HHH, HBK, Angle,

I did a poll on here for superstar of the decade including all those names and Cena won, not many people on the UKFF are under 16. Your statement is wrong, that is not an opinion either, that is a fact.

 

Sure, Cena was better then Shawn Michaels in the past decade. Sure. :laugh:

That's not the point, you said nobody over 16 views Cena as a star, evidently that poll proved you wrong.

 

Yup the UKFF makes up the majority of wrestling fans in the world. I'll call the government to get you to run the Census next year since your so proud of your poll.

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Just admit you were wrong, it's embarassing you now.

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Just admit you were wrong, it's embarassing you now.

 

It was an exaggeration, but it has some truth. Even your beloved Cena plays to it.

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UFC only really began to find success when they took ideas from what has made Pro-Wrestling work so well in the past.

But that's the thing. UFC now does what pro wrestling does as far as building conflict between characters you want to see fight on pay-per-view, except the fights are real which makes them infinitely more intriguing. Wrestling is always going to struggle with that. Just as UFC wouldn't expect to get away with beating Vince on Monday night TV, I think Vince is going to have trouble beating UFC on pay-per-view again. In light of how UFC promotes itself now, wrestling seems much more suited to TV than PPV. People are still watching Raw, people are still buying merchandise and tickets to a night out at the live shows, but less and less people are convinced wrestling is worth paying to watch live in your armchair. And I don't think it's a coincidence that that's happened at the same time UFC has taken off.

 

I think you're right that wrestling is lacking a lot of personality these days, and it's been that way for ages. I think it's probably not as bad now as it has been. I remember when Kennedy debuted, he was touted as the next Rock because he was the first rookie to come along in about three years who had a personality. But I'm not sure it would turn the PPV end of business around -- WrestleMania and Survivor Series this year both had matches with superb build-up based on personalities, but the former was a disappointment in terms of buys and the latter was a wet fart of disappointment for any buyers.

 

I don't know to what extent PPV buys suffer from Youtube/torrents etc, but I'd imagine it hits wrestling harder than it hits boxing or UFC. The real fights are big communal events where people gather with mates to watch them on Saturday nights over a few beers and whatnot. Wrestling is a dirty little Sunday secret that we watch on our own, so it's a lot more "wait til tomorrow and download it"-able.

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I did a poll on here for superstar of the decade including all those names and Cena won, not many people on the UKFF are under 16. Your statement is wrong, that is not an opinion either, that is a fact.

You're poll was stupid, and easily slanted into getting the result you wanted, ie Cena winning. If I ran a poll to ask who was the most successful football team of the decade in the 90's, even Liverpool fans would vote for United. Likewise, only a mong would suggest that Cena wasnt the biggest superstar of the last decade. Austin competed for what, a year to 18 months of the last decade? Rock competed for about 2 years to 30 months? Hogan was a part time player. There was only ever going to be one result of that poll, so dont be so ridiculous and act like Cena winning it was some sort of surprise. Cena being the biggest superstar of the last decade doesnt mean anything in the context of what Lawz is talking about.

 

He was superstar of the decade, in an extremely poor decade. Ratings and buyrates are as low as they ever have been. Its a bit of a back handed award really, it could be renamed "best of a bad bunch" or something. Being the biggest superstar doesnt, in an industry like wrestling, doesnt mean your the best. Cena might have been the big star, but HBK was easily better than Cena over the course of the decade. So was Edge. No, they didnt sell as many toys, t-shirts all the rest, but they were better entertainers. How about you do a poll for superstar of the last quarter century or so, when people like Austin, Hogan, Rock, Flair, etc have a bigger/better body of work to be voted on, and see how well Cena will still hold up then?

 

This is a tired old argument anyway, I just wanted to chirp in and point out that your little poll means fuck all.

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How about you do a poll for superstar of the last quarter century or so, when people like Austin, Hogan, Rock, Flair, etc have a bigger/better body of work to be voted on, and see how well Cena will still hold up then?

Why not just have a "Are you over 16 and like Cena?" poll since that was the actual argument. No fucker will ever argue (sober) that Cena is better than Rock or Austin. I'm not sure what point you are making?

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I did a poll on here for superstar of the decade including all those names and Cena won, not many people on the UKFF are under 16. Your statement is wrong, that is not an opinion either, that is a fact.

You're poll was stupid, and easily slanted into getting the result you wanted, ie Cena winning. If I ran a poll to ask who was the most successful football team of the decade in the 90's, even Liverpool fans would vote for United. Likewise, only a mong would suggest that Cena wasnt the biggest superstar of the last decade. Austin competed for what, a year to 18 months of the last decade? Rock competed for about 2 years to 30 months? Hogan was a part time player. There was only ever going to be one result of that poll, so dont be so ridiculous and act like Cena winning it was some sort of surprise. Cena being the biggest superstar of the last decade doesnt mean anything in the context of what Lawz is talking about.

 

He was superstar of the decade, in an extremely poor decade. Ratings and buyrates are as low as they ever have been. Its a bit of a back handed award really, it could be renamed "best of a bad bunch" or something. Being the biggest superstar doesnt, in an industry like wrestling, doesnt mean your the best. Cena might have been the big star, but HBK was easily better than Cena over the course of the decade. So was Edge. No, they didnt sell as many toys, t-shirts all the rest, but they were better entertainers. How about you do a poll for superstar of the last quarter century or so, when people like Austin, Hogan, Rock, Flair, etc have a bigger/better body of work to be voted on, and see how well Cena will still hold up then?

 

This is a tired old argument anyway, I just wanted to chirp in and point out that your little poll means fuck all.

How was it slanted? You make it seem like I rigged the poll or bribed for votes? It was a legitimate question and seeing as Cena beat Brock/Bastita/HHH/Orton/Angle/Edge (who did all have a huge body of work to be judged on) then claiming nobody over 16 views Cena as a star is wrong.

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Cena is the target for WWE hate because he is the main focal point of everything they do, everything else plays 2nd fiddle, especially when theirs no TripleH or Taker around and those guys wont be around forever, so then what? more Cena I guess.

 

Was anybody even till this day talking about Orton vs Wade, or about what Cena was going to do, leading him to get fired (lol), Wrestling is declining world wide, I hear Japan aint so hot for wrestling anymore either, WWE have been losing veiwers since 2002, and things were alot better back then than they are now, so I dunno how or why people would come back, wrestling is just a played out form of entertainment, it can still be fun if done right, but its never going to be what it was.

 

Heenan said it best that once you show everyone the tricks of the trade, they wont be comming back, and thats what has been happening.

 

The way I look at wrestling is like Saved By The Bell, the OG show was great, cast had great charisma and is what people remember the most, then you have Saved By The Bell The New Class, its the got the same Principal but a different cast that they seemed to change every season, and nobody can remember them like the OG's, along with recycled stories, sound familiar?

 

Thinking about it, another show like that would be Power Rangers, I hear they still make those, which is crazy, but again I bet most people remember the OG with the Green Ranger and what not, but anything else is a miss, and I doubt anyone would go back to watching the new ones they still make.

 

The one thing I will give Cena credit for is carrying WWE on his back, because without him and most of the old legends missing, theirs nothing holding that ship together, unless Miz vs Lawler is doing good numbers.

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No, they didnt sell as many toys, t-shirts all the rest, but they were better entertainers.

How the fuck are you measuring that? Personal preference? I'd agree that Shawn Michaels and Edge entertained me better most of the time, but I've no idea how you're extrapolating that to make the claim that they were objectively better entertainers. Selling "toys, t-shirts all the rest" is often a pretty good indicator as to who the fanbase are most entertained by, like.

Edited by Pityinthecityofsin

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