Snake's WWE Invasion 'Royal Mafia Rumble'

[Snake Plissken]

The Before you ask Votecount

 

3. (Kane) Swiftstrike

4. (Dolph Ziggler) Brownie

5. (Randy Orton) Family Guy PMSL (L-6) Dan Williams, Ron Simmons

6. (CM Punk) Dan Williams

7. (Cody Rhodes) Ron Simmons (L-4) Lawz, Bristep123, Mike Castle, Burchills Buddy

9. (HHH) Chris Stone

11. (Santino Mariella) bristep123 (L-7) Swiftstrike

13. (Kofi Kingston) Carbomb

14. (Sheamus) Mike Castle (L-7) Corey Vandal

16. (Edge) Burchill's Buddy

17. (Rey Mysterio) Wolfvinson

18. (MVP) Lawz

19. (Jack Swagger) Chris B

20. (Christian) CoreyVandal

 

Not Voting - Brownie, Family Guy PMSL, Carbomb, Chris B, Wolfvinson, Chris Stone

 

With 14 in the ring it takes 8 to throw someone over the top rope. Ad Break will occur on Wednesday 22nd December 2010 at 16:00

[Chris B]

Chris, I'm not about to go searching every single game that's been run on here to show you where I said one thing about the PGO previously. I don't have a few hours free just to show you a single line.

 

Fine - my issue is that you can't back it up.

 

As for TMS, on day 1 did TMS also target others, or just Ron still like he did day 2?

 

He had a firm vote on Ron since his fifth post in the game. He hadn't wavered from that at all. He briefly considered SMS as a suspect and Nexus as a suspect, but other than that, he's been firmly after Ron.

 

Incidentally, I don't mind if people want to lynch me to prove that I'm town and that I'm bang on the money, but I'd rather leave scum to be forced to get rid of me because they know I'm hitting them hard. Failing that, I'd rather be around late game as I can be of much more use to town then. (As I'm showing as I'm able to show strong cases on people the further in we go for one thing). But right now getting rid of Ron is optimal play.

 

It's not optimal play if he's a WWE superstar that the nexus can't kill. The only way they'd be able to take him out would be via a lynch.

 

He's blatantly lied about his breadcrumbing, he even failed to state the PGO's actual name and then came up with some poor reasoning that he didn't want the scum to know what role he has (which is a complete arse about face way of doing it, as surely stating the name as it is in the wiki is the way to do that, not state "paranoid veteran" which isn't even a basic role name, meaning it sounds more like it was a possible name given to him, and thus more possible the scum would avoid him "just in case" when if he's trying to get the scum to do so, he would be just stating what's said in the Wiki.

 

In fact, just look it all over, it adds up to RonSK, it does not add up to RonPGO.

 

And you may be right. It's your certainty I'm finding off-putting. Ron may be the PGO, as I believe Ron's more likely to know the name of the role than not. Part of your argument rests on him not knowing what the role is.

 

Oh, and Chris, you're saying I'm shifty... I again ask how you land anything but pro-town from the guy who pushed Nexus right from the off, and has wanted his lynch before anyone else was pushing for his lynch. That's not carefully jumping on a wagon that's moving, that's hooking up the horses to the wagon, loading everyone onto it, and then taking the damned reigns to drive it. You're basically suggesting that on day 1 my initial thoughts were "let's push our rolecop extra hard and get him lynched"... how does that even begin to make sense?

 

Well, here's the thing. Nexus isn't exactly a solid player. We've seen him balls up majorly in two games in the past (bear in mind that I'm counting the pirate game, since, while he was focused on the right player, he was completely illogical). If his hurling himself at the noose in the last game phase wasn't part of a plan, then he was playing a lousy game.

 

If I were scum, and I had someone who was such a potential wild card in my team, I'd want to be making sure I was vocally suspicious of him. It's not like you were entirely focused on him - you were convinced that Corey, Brownie and Bristep were scum that day as well. The wagon hit fast on Nexus while you were away. If you were scum, you couldn't have known that it would move that quickly towards a lynch, at which point, it's not like you could have backed out without looking bad. I'm always wary of someone pushing the defence of 'I can't be scum, look how I voted against scum!', as any time a bus comes, part of the strategy is bound to be looking like you're not bandwagoning.

 

I'm not entirely sure whether I'm having major problems with your playing style or major problems with your arguments. Basically, I feel you cherry pick the points that will back up your case, and if the context doesn't support it, you'll ignore it. I noticed that you've started linking back to the original posts, and this is good. But you pushed people very hard to look at TMS's play on Day two, when it was almost identical to his play on Day one. That feels like an omission.

 

Your certainty does not match the case you've made, I feel. You keep saying RON = SCUM, when what you're doing is pushing arguments that he might be. And again, you're mainly shouting more and louder than anyone else, which is something you did in the last game when you got closer to being lynched. You're not taking any arguments against your points on board - you just get more aggressive.

 

Vote Mike Castle

[Ron Simmons]

but the fact that Ron seems to be so keen to stick to me like shit-to-a-blanket is going to make me look a right twat if I vote for him and he's the vigilante who played an awful game.

First of all, fuck off with your "awful game" nonsense. Not only have I refrained from personal insults (unlike you) I also managed to push towards our first scum lynch. I'm not a vigilante, I'm a Paranoid Gun Owner, and Mike's screwing the town over. That said, I think he's town. You're trying to discredit people so you can sneak by, and I'm actually stunned that nobody else seems to be noticing scummy play from you. Even if you're not scum, your play has been scummy and when you read back this game on hindsight I'm pretty sure you'll agree with me should that be the case.

 

But I'm pretty sure it isn't.

 

I can see if TMS was so focused on Ron that he decided to investigate him and hence the possibility of his death to PGO, but given I haven't got that far yet I am taking your word for it that he was heavily focused on Ron

He hardly posted, he basically came in on day one and said "I agree!" with someone when they were calling me scum and kept up with it on day two as I challenged his view given that he didn't back it up. It made me suspect he was scum, when obviously he wasn't. However, he got on my back on DAY ONE - when he couldn't have possibly investigated me. As soon as he tried I was fucked over.

 

- Breadcrumb Vigilante

- Stop breadcrumbing when told to

As I've said I WAS NOT breadcrumbing! I just happened to use the word vigilant a lot. Breadcrumbing is stupid play and doesn't prove anything - like with all of swiftstrike's bus driver plants in Snake's last game. It's utterly pointless play, and for future reference I would never do it. The fact I "stopped" is pure chance. I was telling people to be vigilant about a serial killer, and happened to repeat the phrase. Then for God knows what reason people thought that this means I MUST be the serial killer in spite of the fact this would be a ridiculous thing for me to do if I was. THAT is why it stopped, I just left the subject be.

 

- Killed the one person out and out tunnelling on him on Day 2

Actually, TMS hardly posted on day 2. Family Guy PMSL was tunnelling me heavily on day one, and though he pulled back a bit on day two he still did it. I'd have killed randomly if I were a serial killer, targetting people related to you is again really stupid play.

 

- WIFOM by saying he would have targetted FG or Dan (doesn't add up as neither were tunnelling as much, but also both were very much above the radar and much easier to mislynch).

Neither Dan or FG were tunnelling as much as TMS?! Are you being serious? I'm using a really slow connection so I annoyingly can't go back and copy a mountain of material to prove you wrong, but luckily swiftstrike is reading back - he can back me up on this, as can anyone with a decent memory - heck, Dan Williams probably will. Dan REALLY targetted me on day one, and Family Guy did too. In fact, you yourself accused him of tunneling me, Mike.

 

- Claimed a role that is normally one use only (and is saying he felt he's killed 3 players with them targetting him... despite the fact it would mean the game was unbalanced)

My role guide doesn't say that it's one use only. And even if it is, I don't know who has targetted me. I'm not sure of the mechanics of the role, I just know that's what I am. There are other ways of explaining why TheRandySavage died and IIH too, however the only way that makes sense of explaining why one person died last night, yet three died tonight is the fact there's a paranoid gun owner (me) - TMS investigated me, and that killed him. NOT me. Because that would have been stupid.

 

Ron - why did you roleclaim? Part of me is wondering if you waited for Mike to give his reasoning in order to find out whether or not he was a watcher. If you're lying, your roleclaim would have relied on whether or not Mike watched you peform actions.

I had no choice but to roleclaim. Mike called me a serial killer before he started his tunneling. What could I do? I tried to keep my role as quiet as possible, as odds are all the power roles who could do something to me from a town perspective are dead, yet from a scum perspective there are others who could target me and die as a result.

 

Agreed, but why did he tunnel on Ron so hard and ignore everyone else?

Because he thought I was scum, but was desperately wrong?

 

He's blatantly lied about his breadcrumbing

I didn't "blatantly lie" because I wasn't doing it!!! AAAAGGGHHHH!!!

 

he even failed to state the PGO's actual name and then came up with some poor reasoning that he didn't want the scum to know what role he has (which is a complete arse about face way of doing it, as surely stating the name as it is in the wiki is the way to do that, not state "paranoid veteran" which isn't even a basic role name, meaning it sounds more like it was a possible name given to him, and thus more possible the scum would avoid him "just in case" when if he's trying to get the scum to do so, he would be just stating what's said in the Wiki.

Mike, last time I stated a role I was accused of being it, so I didn't want to do the same with PGO, especially since it could take scum out!

 

That said, if I die because of Mikes ridiculously over-confident cock-up then DO NOT lynch him based on this. I'm pretty sure it'll happen anyway, but even though he's being an arrogant tube, and even though he's leading a lynch against the one the scum can't kill he's still played a pro-town game overall, albeit a misguided one. On the other hand, PLEASE examine and scrutinize every one of Family Guy's posts. I might be wrong on this, but I'm certain enough to bring it up in the face of death. I know my role, and although he obviously doesn't I think when you have it confirmed you'll see his posts in a new light. They seem very calculated and manipulative.

[Burchill's Buddy]

My role guide doesn't say that it's one use only. And even if it is, I don't know who has targetted me. I'm not sure of the mechanics of the role, I just know that's what I am.

 

This section stands out like a sore thumb for me Ron, are you claiming that you don't know how your role works, and you've gotten into the third week of the game without asking Snake about it? Or researching it in other games or the MafiaScum wiki? Also, I can't imagine Snake would leave something like that out of your role PM, it's pretty integral to the PGO role surely?

[Ron Simmons]

My role guide doesn't say that it's one use only. And even if it is, I don't know who has targetted me. I'm not sure of the mechanics of the role, I just know that's what I am.

 

This section stands out like a sore thumb for me Ron, are you claiming that you don't know how your role works, and you've gotten into the third week of the game without asking Snake about it? Or researching it in other games or the MafiaScum wiki? Also, I can't imagine Snake would leave something like that out of your role PM, it's pretty integral to the PGO role surely?

My PM doesn't say that it only works once, so I assume it doesn't, but maybe there's some standard ting Snake's playing to? I don't know. Why the heck would I roleclaim PGO when it would have been infinitely easier to claim to be a vigilante, and say 'that's why I suggested there might be a killer'?

 

You're trying to make something out of nothing here, I've said for a while now I think you're scum. I might be way off, and shocked at the end of the game, but I'm pretty certain the poor play/mis-guided attacks of others is allowing FG and yourself to work as a unit without others batting an eyelid. If I die I really hope my theory is looked at, so that we can at least attempt to kill tge right people. I'm a little worried about swiftstrike and bristep too, mainly because of Lion's plays previous to this, and bristep suddenly following Mike's experience despite playing a phenomenal game so far...I'm far from certain about either of these two, I just have worries about them.

[Burchill's Buddy]

I don't think I'm making something out of nothing at all, you literally just said "I'm not sure about the mechanics of my role" - I just can't believe that you wouldn't have tried to learn more about this role before playing it. Whether or not it was a one shot only thing is pretty much the whole crux of the role. As for why you would claim PGO, one argument would be so that people don't target you.

 

I know you suspect me of being scum, you've said it plenty of times. And yes, you are way off. As for me and Family Guy being 'a unit' - that's the first time I've heard you mention that, anything to back it up or are you just attacking anyone who's voted for you now?

[Ron Simmons]

I don't think I'm making something out of nothing at all, you literally just said "I'm not sure about the mechanics of my role" - I just can't believe that you wouldn't have tried to learn more about this role before playing it. Whether or not it was a one shot only thing is pretty much the whole crux of the role. As for why you would claim PGO, one argument would be so that people don't target you.

 

I know you suspect me of being scum, you've said it plenty of times. And yes, you are way off. As for me and Family Guy being 'a unit' - that's the first time I've heard you mention that, anything to back it up or are you just attacking anyone who's voted for you now?

You've targeted and voted for the same people each day now. The game has allowed you to do that. You haven't directly addressed eachother, but you don't need to.

 

I did research the role, I've never come across it before now and I'm a new player to the game so there may be elements I'm unaware of. And as for the veteran thing, there's a role variation called an 'army veteran' which is why I used that phrase.

 

Obviously you're not gonna admit what I'm accusing you of, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Time will tell. It's all very easy to accuse someone of targeting someone for targeting them, but that's not the case. Otherwise I'd have targeted Dan and Mike. It's based on your overall play

[Burchill's Buddy]

I don't think I'm making something out of nothing at all, you literally just said "I'm not sure about the mechanics of my role" - I just can't believe that you wouldn't have tried to learn more about this role before playing it. Whether or not it was a one shot only thing is pretty much the whole crux of the role. As for why you would claim PGO, one argument would be so that people don't target you.

 

I know you suspect me of being scum, you've said it plenty of times. And yes, you are way off. As for me and Family Guy being 'a unit' - that's the first time I've heard you mention that, anything to back it up or are you just attacking anyone who's voted for you now?

You've targeted and voted for the same people each day now. The game has allowed you to do that. You haven't directly addressed eachother, but you don't need to.

 

I did research the role, I've never come across it before now and I'm a new player to the game so there may be elements I'm unaware of. And as for the veteran thing, there's a role variation called an 'army veteran' which is why I used that phrase.

 

Obviously you're not gonna admit what I'm accusing you of, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Time will tell. It's all very easy to accuse someone of targeting someone for targeting them, but that's not the case. Otherwise I'd have targeted Dan and Mike. It's based on your overall play

You didn't use that phrase at all, you called it a Paranoid veteran. Which was wrong either way, and shows you either didn't really do your research, or were deliberately lying.

 

I'll be honest Ron, I'm not as certain about this as I was yesterday, the gut is starting to give me feelings like Castle is leading me on a merry little dance, but my methodology is basically that 3 kills overnight appears to mean to me we have a serial killer, I've learnt from the cowboy game that trying to get rid of that role should be the most important thing, Mike has put the best case forward for you being the serial killer, and a few things about your PGO role don't add up.

[The Icon]

Pfft, I'm not happy with the use of foul language, or the relentless tunnelling which hasn't ceased since Day 1. Its getting monotonous.

Vote Ron Simmons

[Retro Red]

My role guide doesn't say that it's one use only. And even if it is, I don't know who has targetted me. I'm not sure of the mechanics of the role, I just know that's what I am.

 

This section stands out like a sore thumb for me Ron, are you claiming that you don't know how your role works, and you've gotten into the third week of the game without asking Snake about it? Or researching it in other games or the MafiaScum wiki? Also, I can't imagine Snake would leave something like that out of your role PM, it's pretty integral to the PGO role surely?

My PM doesn't say that it only works once, so I assume it doesn't, but maybe there's some standard ting Snake's playing to? I don't know. Why the heck would I roleclaim PGO when it would have been infinitely easier to claim to be a vigilante, and say 'that's why I suggested there might be a killer'?

 

You're trying to make something out of nothing here, I've said for a while now I think you're scum. I might be way off, and shocked at the end of the game, but I'm pretty certain the poor play/mis-guided attacks of others is allowing FG and yourself to work as a unit without others batting an eyelid. If I die I really hope my theory is looked at, so that we can at least attempt to kill tge right people. I'm a little worried about swiftstrike and bristep too, mainly because of Lion's plays previous to this, and bristep suddenly following Mike's experience despite playing a phenomenal game so far...I'm far from certain about either of these two, I just have worries about them.

 

While I appreciate your comments about my game so far, this is still the first time I've played and sadly I don't have the experience to make the same kind of leads that Mike does. If he's wrong then I'll have trouble believing him again, since he says he's 100% sure.

 

If Mike is town it would be suicide to take such a stand out stance about your role without being certain. If you don't flip SK then he's almost sure fire lynch next day because there'll be a bandwagon and the town numbers will be too depleted to really affect a turnaround.

 

If he's scum then yes, getting you lynched is the best thing to do because as a PGO you can't be targetted for a night kill. He'll be lynched tomorrow if you flip PGO but the damage will already be done, and town are essentially screwed.

 

I'm less convinced of my vote than I was when I cast it, but that is because I am not confident in reading the game correctly as yet. Mike was correct about Nexus last day, so I am trusting him that he's correct here.

 

The decision for me right now goes down to whether I think Mike is town or scum. I believe he is town. If I'm wrong then that's a lesson to be learned for the future.

[Burchill's Buddy]

Also, something else worth mentioning....I thought I hadn't seen Wolfvision for a while so checked his most recent posts....he hasn't posted on here since the 12th December!? Went back through a few posts to check for a V/LA and didn't see anything.

 

Mod: What's going on with Wolfvision?

[Ron Simmons]

BB - I've already said - I deliberately used the wrong phrase so that people wouldn't accuse me of being the PGO. Family Guy, I've kept an opinion, I've hardly tunnelled you, you brought it upon yourself on day two by continually challenging me. I'm saying it now because I believe I'm right and if I die I don't want you to get off with this. You're blatantly behaving in a scummy way, whether this translates to you being scum

Or not I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it will.

[Snake Plissken]

There was a Night Phase in there BB. However Wolfvinson will be prodded.

[Mike Castle]

Alright... I've been thinking about things, and one reason I'm pretty sure I've not been hit is I'm pretty sure that Nexus targetted me with his Rolecop ability.

 

This leads in to why I don't believe Ron's claim in the slightest. A PGO by itself might not be too bad if it's one use only.

 

A PGO, AND a bomb in the same game means that scum could essentially be fucked over just by targetting the players that, logically, they should be targetting.

 

Yes, I'm claiming bomb. WHat this means is if I'm targetted at night for a kill, I die and so does the scum (or vig, or SK) who targetted me. By the same token, if I'm lynched, I will kill whoever was the hammer. So why include both in the game AND make the PGO multi-use? Sorry, but it throws balance completely under a bus and drives over it multiple times for that.

 

Like I say, I've claimed because I strongly believe the scum already know my role and aren't going to target me (it's also why I believe swift is trying to keep people suspecting me). It's actually leading me to think Chris could possibly be scum, as despite the obviousness that I can't be scum thanks to nailing Nexus before everyone else and pushing him stronger than most, but scum need me gone via a lynch, they can't risk taking me out at night unless they can be sure it will lead to an eventual scum win.

 

Incidentally, if we ever reach a point where we have one scum left to take out, and people are still unsure of me, the simple option is to force that player to drop the hammer on me. If they refuse to do it, they're blatantly scum and we lynch them to win. (This doesn't count in LyLo because if they're town, they would know it would fuck the town over).

 

So, there's my final evidence as to why Ron isn't a PGO. A PGO and a bomb in the same game is overpowered, even more so with an unlimited shot PGO that should have claimed day 1 in case of town targetting him. But I have no issue with being tomorrow's lynch if Ron isn't a SK, on the basis that we arrange, in advance, who will hammer me so we take out two suspects (me and someone else) in one hit, I also want that person to be brownie or Corey, as it will prove my case that they are joint scum as well.

 

Oh, and Ron, Dan and FGPMSL weren't tunnelling you as much as TMS for the simple fact that they were still looking elsewhere, just that you were their main suspect (just like you're now my main suspect to lynch today, but brownie, Corey, and swift still need considering, as does Chris with his extensive pushing on me since Day 2 despite the fact that come day 3, after the Nexus lynch, which was pushed by me stronger than anyone else, I should be thought of as likely town above anyone else. If I hadn't continued to pressure Nexus people would have dropped his case a lot sooner and he could have slid under the radar for a couple of days longer perhaps). TMS however focused all of his attention on getting you lynched. The fact he started day one doesn't change it, because if he strongly suspected you day 1, you should have also been his night 1 investigation. (If you weren't it was bloody terrible play from him), the fact he then continued to push you heavily, and didn't attempt to clear someone either means he didn't get an innocent on anyone, and can only have got a guilty on you.

[Carbomb]

Well, that's the cat among the pigeons. Mike, I'm now 50/50 torn between thinking you're either alignment, because you've basically threatened everyone into not lynching you.

 

Also, I'm afraid I think your logic in terms of "If they refuse to hammer me, it means they're scum" is a bit off - at this stage in the game, where we've lost so many, and power roles at that, why should anyone, WWE or Nexus, agree to undergo a test where they hammer you? Even if they're WWE, to submit to your "witch-test" would be badly detrimental to Town after we've sustained so many losses.

 

You've made some good points, but you've also made some pretty spurious ones, and then bullied your way into pushing them, which doesn't sit right with me. I'm going to have to go back over the past few pages to have a look at what's been posted before I decide what to do. The points on Ron are far from compelling like you make out - from what I can see, if he was breadcrumbing a vigilante role, it's a sensible thing to do if you're a PGO, because it makes for an excellent trap for the Scum. I don't see that as particularly anti-Town play.