Snake's WWE Invasion 'Royal Mafia Rumble'

[Burchill's Buddy]

Ugh, so Mike's calling me the killer now? I have a theory like I told you last post. I'm on a phone right now, so can't copy/paste but I was on the mafia wiki, and there's a role called a 'paranoid veteran' (I think) - if someone could copy and paste the entry that'd be handy. But yeah, this is a pro-town role where a player kills anyone who makes an action against them. We lost 2 power roles. They probably targeted the same person - a person with this role. That's my theory, though I'm accessing the site with a phone so please paste the wiki entry so people can poke holes in what I say.

Had a look in the wiki but couldn't find any reference to this role. It sounds like you're referring to the paranoid gun owner, also known as Army veteran though right? Which we've had before, I think with JLM in a previous game?

 

The Paranoid Gun Owner, similar to the Army Veteran, involuntarily kills anyone who targets him during the night, regardless of alignment. He can be a liability to the Town for this reason, as he indiscriminately kills Cops, Doctors, etc. He can not choose to kill.

[CoreyVandal]

Ok, I've read the whole part where Brownie's defending the lynch against me and I'm not quite sure how I feel. In my eyes it wasn't 'extremely defensive' as Mike Castle put it. It was a move that made sense. Why lynch a nearly active town player and lose them when they could be replaced? Something about how you jumped on Brownie for what I feel was a perfectly logical play felt incredibly scummy, ESPECIALLY how you're still bringing it up this long after the fact as ammo against him (and me).

Add to that the extremely solid case Chris B brought against you (being caught out by bristep, leaving out relevant information, and just general manipulation when being accused) then I'm very sorry to say (especially after your last post )that you are currently my main suspect. Normally at this point I'd just throw out a FOS, but I think there's enough evidence there for me to confidently make a vote.

 

Vote: Mike Castle

[CoreyVandal]

oh, stupid autospell changed barely to nearly.

[Mike Castle]

Ron, you're saying that two pro-town power roles targetted a paranoid gun owner (who typically is only one use only, so whichever was arranged to act first would have been hit of the two), and that scum killed TripleA?

 

That means I now know Ron's actual role, sooo... here we go.

 

Sorry, but you brought up the possibility of a serial killer, then began dropping "vigilante" lines like the plague, after I told you to stop it (and that you'd know what I meant) you suddenly stopped saying it, which proves you weren't doing it automatically, and knew exactly what I was on about (you didn't need to question me about it), and you haven't said who your "vig" kill went to last night.

 

That means we do have a serial killer, that means it's Ron.

 

Oh, and Corey, you're going to suggest the guy who pushed for the Nexus lynch BEFORE it became "the" lynch... is co-scum with him? Great move there. Especially when you're suggesting that I was acting anti-town in saying to lynch you. Because you COULDN'T be replaced at the point I was pushing it. Meaning brownie's "get Corey replaced" crap is exactly that, complete crap.

 

So let's see...

 

Scum Team:

brownie

Corey

 

Possibly on the scum team:

Lion/swift

 

SK:

Ron

 

vote: Ron

We could leave scum to remove the SK for us, however if they decide not to, on the basis of hoping he nails town tonight, then we are in deep shit tomorrow, at least removing him from the town now means we only have to deal with the scum from tomorrow on.

[Retro Red]

I think the only thing you should do with low posters is keep pressuring them, without voting for them. Let the mod deal with it.

 

I think Mike is causing too much trouble with his argument over flavour. It's really distracting. Distraction is a great scum tactic it makes it look like you're contributing, when you're really not. Ditto TripleA, but he's basically been confirmed as town, so he's clearly not scum. Family Guy voting himself is ridiculous.

 

I'd like to hear more from bristep, bugsey and inh. Please.

 

Dan is by far and away the scummiest poster, though, closely followed by Ron. I'd rather vote for Dan atm, but would vote for Ron too.

 

vote: dan williams

 

Found this tucked away in the middle of the last day phase.

 

Interesting given that Nexus turned out to be scum, he pushed for Dan and Ron to by lynched (both having been fairly strong suspects for people at one stage or another).

 

Also he tried to shift point onto myself (and I know I'm town!), buggsy and Insert_Name_here (Who turned up town doctor after the night phase).

 

If Ron is a serial killer as Mike says, then Nexus wouldn't know that and only think of him as town.

[Burchill's Buddy]

If Ron is indeed the Serial Killer, that was a seriously bad play from him to suggest we may have one (I do actually remember him posting that come to think of it). Well, Ron was (alongside Nexus) my main suspicion day 1, but as I said at the time, was more of a gut feeling, and Mike you were right about the Nexus lynch, I think I'm happy to FOS on this one for now. I don't want to see a repeat of the Cowboy game where we were focused on Daltons and Cult members and the poisoner managed to get right through the game. However, I'm also suspicious of Vandal still, and I'd like to see what else he comes up with before I vote. His vote on Mike is a bit of a strange one IMO (he brought up the situation between Brownie and yourself because I asked him about it for example)

 

FOS - Ron Simmons

FOS - Corey Vandal

[Jaffa]

In short, it boils down to how he got extremely defensive of there being a lynch on Corey, so much so that he was demanding Corey should be replaced even when Corey wasn't required to be, and saying that we shouldn't lynch him because it's the mod's job to get people posting (it's not, the mods job is just to replace people who are inactive, not to replace people who aren't as active as we'd like them to be). So it stunk strongly of "Don't lynch him!" Despite the fact he shouldn't know what role Corey has.

I don't know what role Corey has.

 

I'm astonished that you don't get why I don't want to lynch Corey yet. He hasn't given us anything to work with yet and at the stage of the game we were in, it was ridiculous to lynch him, especially when there were other people to look at.

 

Why would you want him dead when there is no hint of his being Nexus or WWE? It reeks of scum attempting an easy kill.

 

Mod - i'm flying to New Zealand tomorrow. The flight takes 23 hours, plus 11 hours time difference, so i'm V/LA until Sunday/Mondayish. I'll be back online when i'm at my parents house in Kati Kati.

[Snake Plissken]

V/LA Noted Brownie, have a nice flight

[Mike Castle]

I'm astonished that you don't get why I don't want to lynch Corey yet. He hasn't given us anything to work with yet and at the stage of the game we were in, it was ridiculous to lynch him, especially when there were other people to look at.

 

Why would you want him dead when there is no hint of his being Nexus or WWE? It reeks of scum attempting an easy kill.

So, middle of day two, and he couldn't give us anything to work with, and you're saying that as he hasn't given us anything to work with... we shouldn't lynch him?

 

That's precisely WHY he is scummy. Do you not get that? The fact that he was posting enough to avoid modkilling/replacement, and yet never said a thing at any point (I note that now his only choice has been to vote for me... the guy attacking him... despite the fact I was strong on the Nexus lynch and pushed it rather heavily most of day one, and was still 100% behind it day two.. all before it became a strong lynch).

 

You, brownie, suggested we should get him replaced, but as I repeatedly pointed out, that WAS NOT going to happen. The mod wasn't going to replace someone who was posting enough as per the rules, and we can't force a replacement. Which means what you were saying is we just shouldn't lynch Corey at all. That's a terrible view to have, because you are out and out giving him a bye to the end of the game. "Just barely post, say nothing, and we wont lynch you" is what you were essentially saying to him, and sorry, I don't buy it.

 

brownie, you and Corey ARE scum. Ron I'm certain is the serial killer (why would he hide the fact he made a kill last night if he isn't? He made more than enough hints towards being the vig in day 1 to make it obvious that's what he was using as a claim, so why would the "vig" try and claim some other reason as to why two power roles died? I'll also pull up the evidence of him saying vigilante if anyone wishes, as it was only during a short span of time, but it stood out like a sore thumb to me).

 

I say we take out Ron today, and we can move onto brownie, Corey and co. tomorrow.

[Retro Red]

Oh, and Corey, you're going to suggest the guy who pushed for the Nexus lynch BEFORE it became "the" lynch... is co-scum with him? Great move there. Especially when you're suggesting that I was acting anti-town in saying to lynch you. Because you COULDN'T be replaced at the point I was pushing it. Meaning brownie's "get Corey replaced" crap is exactly that, complete crap.

 

I was looking through the last phase to confirm exactly that, Mike was one of the first to throw out a vote for Nexus and indeed left his vote there when he went V/LA (which should have been up to the end of the day phase if it weren't for the delays).

 

It also adds credence to the issues surrounding the 3 votes he gained after he went V/LA, and couldn't defend the accusations. Again, not saying all of the three were scummy but TripleA's point (and now we know he was town, we know he wasn't scum trying to misdirect so genuinely believed his points) starts to ring true when you figure that brownie kept trying to discredit it by twisting the point (he said twice that TripleA was saying that Mike shouldn't have been voted for since he was V/LA, which he wasn't). His last act of the day phase was to switch his vote to try and help a lynch. That's his last act in the game so far actually, despite posting in another thread last night and about 20 minutes ago.

 

Right now I think that Dan is town. Nexus flipping scum rolecop has really saved him because a town flip would have seen him lynched in this phase, and a vanilla scum flip wouldn't have cleared him quite the way the rolecop flip did. I also think Mike is town, because our tete-a-tete aside I have agreed with a lot of his thoughts so far, and as above he was one of the first to vote for Nexus (and left a vote in while he would be V/LA and have no control on the way the wagon went from there on in).

 

IMO, brownie is now a main consideration for scum, with my eye on Corey, FamilyGuy and Swiftstrike (the vote is odd, but could be explained away once he's up and running. Despite that, he's a very experienced and skilled player, so it could be a measured tactic).

 

Burchill Buddy is another who has piqued my interest, he hasn't been super active this game, mainly agreeing with players or bringing up small theories or points but what stood out for me is his voting. He voted for Dan last day phase, then in the final (extended) afternoon of the phase he unvoted, despite Nexus already being lynched (pending the resubmission of the votes that 'didn't count'). Was he hopping off Dan's wagon to make sure he wasn't looked at as hard the next day? He could well be scum playing a very guarded game. Posting on game but not anything of substance, not sticking his neck out with any big claims.

 

Of course, brownie is going V/LA so we won't get any more information from him until he gets back. Burchill, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my points.

[Burchill's Buddy]

Burchill Buddy is another who has piqued my interest, he hasn't been super active this game, mainly agreeing with players or bringing up small theories or points but what stood out for me is his voting. He voted for Dan last day phase, then in the final (extended) afternoon of the phase he unvoted, despite Nexus already being lynched (pending the resubmission of the votes that 'didn't count'). Was he hopping off Dan's wagon to make sure he wasn't looked at as hard the next day? He could well be scum playing a very guarded game. Posting on game but not anything of substance, not sticking his neck out with any big claims.

I was away from the game, as I pointed out two or three times, because I was off work that week, and my home pc is down. I'm back now and therefore will be posting a lot more frequently, as you will have seen yesterday and today. My short posts before then were mainly due to me only being able to access the site from my phone, which is, to be frank, a cunt to type long posts with.

 

As for the Dan vote, as you'll see if you read back through my posts, I unvoted because he satisfied what I'd asked him to do which was defend his case properly. He did so in my opinion very well and therefore I unvoted him as I said I would. As for not sticking my neck out, again on day 1 that was mainly because I couldn't post long or copy and paste stuff which makes getting into the game difficult. You will have seen yesterday and today that I am doing a lot more, and will continue to do so throughout the game.

 

Mike: I was actually going to ask you to pull up those 'vig' references for Ron that you mentioned, I think they'd go a long way in helping me decide whether to turn my FOS on Ron into a vote.

[Mike Castle]

Some of these I wasn't going to bring up as they simply referred to the previous game, then they began being way too much to do that with. I've also had to remove quotes from others so that they would all fit in one post, feel free to click the arrow to the right of the names in the quote boxes to find the full post if you so wish, not that it matters for this proof.

 

I always over explain, I'm afraid Look at my previous games. For example, look at the last game when I was actually a vigilante.

The first I wasn't going to bring up, but is worth noting for later ones.

 

I'm going to throw out a possibility given the game type - I think it's almost certain we'll have some kind of serial killer out there who wins if he's "the last man standing." Given that it's a Royal Rumble and all. Obviously there's not a great deal we can do to detect said person should they exist right now...but it's certainly something we should be vigiliant about.

Note here that he brings up the SK line, and says about being "vigilant".

 

I suggested that people be vigilant (particularly anyone who has a power role - to ensure they use it correctly) because given the game type (a Royal Rumble) it seems pretty likely that someone is going to have a win condition of winning the damn thing by being the last person standing. You then accused me of being a serial killer for suggesting there might be one. On that logic anyone who mentions any role, or makes an opinion should be accused of being that.

WIFOM in addition to the vigilant line.

 

As I said in my intial post there's no way we can work out who is a serial killer at this early stage. But that doesn't mean we can't be vigilant. Power roles should use their powers wisely, and everyone should keep their eyes peeled for clues even at this early stage. One reason we didn't catch Swiftstrike at an earlier point in Snake's previous game is because we didn't know he existed till very late on. If we all remain vigilant from the get-go catching any serial killer will be easier to do.

Twice in one post there, along with (after bringing up the idea of the SK) pretty much suggesting we shouldn't be looking for them as we can't work out who it is.

 

No, I said I think there's likely to be a serial killer - and that there's NO WAY we could know who it is right now so we should all be looking out for cluse from the get go, and power roles should be vigilant about how they use their powers. It is absolutely worthless debating whether or not someone is a serial killer at this stage, particularly using the logic you're using. Absolutely we should be looking out for one from the start so that a swiftstrike situation can't happen again, but there's no point talking about who it is just yet. Especially when the logic is ridiculous.

Still trying to deflect SK suspicion from himself.

 

That's the way I play, I had the same accusation made against me last game (of being defensive) and I was a vigilante. I try and respond to pretty much each point against me as a courtesy. And the suggestion of a serial killer is absolutely NOT random. Think about it, the theme is "Royal Rumble". The objective of a RR match is to be the last man standing. Does it seem likely to me that someone would run a Royal Rumble themed game WITHOUT someone who has this as their win goal? Absolutely not. Heck, there mightnot be one, but I think people should be vigilant and look for clues from the start, so a "swiftstrike" situation is less likely to occur.

Another post I wasn't going to bring up, except the later one makes it stand out again. (It's sort of like saying "I was town before, and a vigilante, and this is how I play with that role". (Worth noting a Serial Killer is unlikely to play much different from town anyway as they need to hunt scum all the same, like swift in the Cowboy game).

 

Oh, and Ron... if you are town... which I don't think you are... but IF you are... shut the up. You know what I mean too, so don't ask me what I'm getting at.

My post where I called him on it. He never once specifically says the words "Vigilant" again in the game.

 

And I did in the last game too, when I was a vigilante.

And the third I wasn't necessarily going to bring up until this point. It just feels like it was shoehorned in to say "hey, I play the same from both the last games, one of which I was a vigilante" for no real reason. This is also the absolute last time he mentions vigilante for the game as well. Which makes it more like a final statement which he could then refer back to.

 

With all that there, and the fact he refused outright to state who he shot (going so-far as to claim the pro-town roles were hit by a PGO, which I don't believe in the slightest) it's as much as confirmed him as the SK for me.

 

So, that's suddenly saying Vigilant, for absolutely no reason, between 1:45 and 9:15pm in a single day... and 3 counts of shoehorning in Vigilante between 1:45 and 10pm, and never raising the word again after I call him on it, which, as I say, proves it was done deliberately. Proving he was trying to fake claim vigilante thanks to his refusal to say who he shot last night.

 

Ron has to be today's lynch so that we can slow down the night kills that are happening.

[Burchill's Buddy]

Excuse my ignorance, I must have missed a step in your logic. It's pretty clear from that that he is attempting to claim the vig role, but I don't understand why this must make him the serial killer?

[Burchill's Buddy]

Actually, will have to continue this discussion tomorrow morning, I'm off for the evening now.

[Mike Castle]

Simple.

 

Today I asked him who he killed last night, and why, at this stage possibly outing the vig was the least of my worries because if it forced scum to take him out tonight it still works out as a bonus for us as it lessens the amount of accidental kills the vig might make at this stage.

 

He not only didn't give us a name (which, if he was the vig he would have killed someone last night, nobodies going to tell me we had three kills and NONE of them were the vig), but came up with some reason as to why the two power roles died (targetting a PGO), which means "TripleA was hit by scum, Cop and Doc both hit the PGO"... so where was his vig kill last night?

 

Night 1 I would guess the Doc made a successful protect which is why we only had one death. Night 2 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we either have an actual vig (which cannot be Ron now based on his really poor attempt to explain two kills), or the doc was secretly a weak doc and targetted scum last night.

 

Either way, there's absolutely no chance Ron can be pro-town, not after so blatantly breadcrumbing a vig role, then pretending two deaths came from some other means.