European Union - for or against?

[garynysmon]

Definately Pro-EU. I just look across Europe and see other countries the size of Wales who are doing so well.

[Dynamite Duane]

Wow! So far we have more Euro-fanatics than sceptics.

 

So what has the EU done for Wales?

 

Personally I'm against the UK being broken up into regions of the EU and for keeping the Britain as a United Kingdom. The national assemblies are a step towards that. It also reminds me of the Thatcher/Regan Individualism that did them so well.

[JNLister]

Scottish Parliament and Northern Ireland/Wales Assemblies have nothing to do with the EU.

[David]

Wow! So far we have more Euro-fanatics than sceptics.

And that surprises you?

 

I would have been pretty confident that would be the case here.

[FireBrand]

Hard to see the U.K thriving by remaining utterly independant as our influence and power-projection diminishes with each passing year, not only that with the rise of China,India and Brazil we can't rely on the Anglo-sphere for that much longer.

[Dynamite Duane]

Wow! So far we have more Euro-fanatics than sceptics.

And that surprises you?

 

I would have been pretty confident that would be the case here.

It does, I thought the off topic posters were a cynical bunch generally.

 

I thought you were anti EU yourself, judging by your comments around election time?

 

Is it the case most people don't know enough about the EU? It's a discussion that gets swept under the carpet often in the media, despite stories coming out of the money wasted etc.

[Dynamite Duane]

Scottish Parliament and Northern Ireland/Wales Assemblies have nothing to do with the EU.

No, but it is a step towards the breakdown of the United Kingdom into regions of Europe.

 

I guess I'm an old fashioned traditionalist, I want to hold onto what we have which is good. The Royal Mail is being broken up because of EU directives. If something which was fine how it was, it doesn't make sense to come along and change it.

 

Switzerland seem to be doing fine as non-European Union members and it's a smaller country than Britain.

 

Post Office Closures:

The Destruction of the Royal Mail

 

How do you destroy a profit-making, universally-liked and fair-priced business network that is not only the best in the world but also an integral part of British life? Simple. You bankrupt it. How do you do that? Easy. Just hand over control to unelected foreign bureaucrats and allow foreign companies to seize the profitable areas of business, forcing the remainder into debt. Crazy? Not at all. That is precisely what has happened to the Royal Mail and its network of Post Offices over the past eleven years.

How it used to be.

 

Up until the late 1990

[Loki]

Wasn't the Royal Mail hugely inefficient and expensive though? I'm not defending what Labour did to it, they fucked it up good and proper, but it did need reform.

[Glen Quagmire]

Scottish Parliament and Northern Ireland/Wales Assemblies have nothing to do with the EU.

No, but it is a step towards the breakdown of the United Kingdom into regions of Europe.

Anyone who thinks that the establishment of the Northern Irish Assembly is part of a conspiracy leading towards the UK into a EU superstate with the UK being "broken up" as such is, as Americans would put it, been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid. You would also have to ignore the past existence of the Parliament of Northern Ireland (which had even stronger powers than the current Assembly) that was around for approx. five decades in the 20th Century while part of the UK, and it was suspended before the UK joined the Common Market.

 

Also, the two largest parties in the NI Assembly, DUP and Sinn Fein, are generally Eurosceptic parties though don't advocate full EU withdrawal but both are fully supportive of the Assembly.

 

Switzerland seem to be doing fine as non-European Union members and it's a smaller country than Britain.

The example of Switzerland is often a claim made about a successful non-EU country used in Anti-EU arguments both in the UK and Ireland. The problem is that neither Ireland or (especially) the UK = Switzerland, the Swiss have customs and traditions very different to that of both countries. Switzerland itself, as well as Norway, has numerous bilateral agreements with the EU on many matters. In fact Switzerland & Norway have implemented the Schengen agreement whereas the UK and Ireland has not except for certain areas like police database records.

 

As for examples of differences between Switzerland and the UK, the Swiss political system is a heavily decentralised republic with many areas of power based in the Cantonal system and strong elements of direct democracy, whereas the UK has its traditions based in a Monarchical Westminster system with heavy amounts of power centralised into the Houses of Parliament (though the devolution of powers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland has in recent times been a step away from this) and referenda is rare (only one UK-wide referendum has taken place since 1701, with the second to take place next year) with the system been strongly representative.

 

Another is that Switzerland never built an expansive empire for itself, the cantons historically made self-defence alliances which led to the the Swiss Confederation today. It even blocked expansion of itself at one point. The Swiss Army is the largest militia in the world.

 

Also, today Switzerland has a large proportion of foreign born residents (over 20%, Geneva is over 40%) that if the same level were to exist in the UK, some people would shit their brains.

 

Finally for now, Switzerland was historically a poor country who relied on its geography to take care of itself through trading paths between north-south and east-west in Europe, as well as providing stable conditions and laws to hold assets of wealthy foreigners. The UK was a major European power for much of the last few centuries that used the seas for its trading and imports/exports.

[FireBrand]

Wasn't the Royal Mail hugely inefficient and expensive though? I'm not defending what Labour did to it, they fucked it up good and proper, but it did need reform.

 

 

Yes and it still needs shaking up, funny thing is Consignia was even worse.

[garynysmon]

Wow! So far we have more Euro-fanatics than sceptics.

 

So what has the EU done for Wales?

 

Personally I'm against the UK being broken up into regions of the EU and for keeping the Britain as a United Kingdom. The national assemblies are a step towards that. It also reminds me of the Thatcher/Regan Individualism that did them so well.

 

It probably won't surprise you that i'm a fully paid up member of Plaid Cymru, who's main remit eventually is to have Wales as a fully fledged member of the EU in it's own right. I don't think there's much you and I will agree on to be honest.

[Dynamite Duane]

Fair enough.

 

Out of interest I take it the EU hasn't done a lot for Wales as of yet then? It's more about what Plaid Cymru hopes to gain from the EU for Wales?

[Dynamite Duane]

Wasn't the Royal Mail hugely inefficient and expensive though? I'm not defending what Labour did to it, they fucked it up good and proper, but it did need reform.

If I've got it correct, actions Labour have taken are EU directives against monopolies. That's the reason to break it up.

Perhaps some reforms were/are needed but what I don't like is selling off part to German and Dutch companies. To me that seems disloyal to your own country.

 

Aside from the break of the Royal Mail deliver service, the Post Offices are under attack. Many have been closed down, making things hard for the elderly who rely on Post Offices to draw their pensions, and you can no longer pay the TV License at a Post Office.

 

Another similar example of our country being ripped of it's assets is the buses. My local bus company Yellow Buses has been sold off to French company Transdev. I recall seeing the Transdev name on buses in London also.

 

What do the smokers think of the smoking ban?

 

I'm a non smoker it doesn't affect me, but it's not common sense to have a complete ban. Give people a choice of certain pubs allowing and others not or separate rooms. Its seems to be one size fits all with the EU, rather than applying common sense.

 

The EU debate covers so many things that affect the nation.

[JNLister]

What the fuck does the closure of post offices, a French company buying a British bus company, or the British government introducing a smoking ban, have to do with the EU?

[Dynamite Duane]

What the fuck does the closure of post offices, a French company buying a British bus company, or the British government introducing a smoking ban, have to do with the EU?

A fucking lot! I thought you were the know it all? Do the research, it's directives from the EU.

 

It's important we have independence from the EU so we have control over our countries destiny.

 

This page has audio evidence declaring plans to break up the Royal Mail - the last monopoly.