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Ian Tomlinson death


Ross

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Just watched the Tomlinson video again for the first time in a long time and contrary to what most people have said, he did break his fall as he landed, his hands came out of his pockets as soon as he was touched and both arms went forward and broke his fall. Its only a minor detail but most people on here and other places have been saying that he fell with his hands still in his pockets and landed head first on the floor, i'd even presumed that had happened.

The fact still remains that a man walking away from you with his hands in his pockets poses next to zero by way of threat.

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PC Harwood is getting slaughtered by Tomlinsons family barrister...

 

12.55pm: Harwood is now struggling to explain the lawful power he believed he had been exercising

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He is digging himself even deeper but I believe that's because hes been told exactly what he can and cant say and for whatever reason is prepared to dig his own grave (presumably because he knows he cant be charged with anything). All he has to say is that in his opinion Tomlinson was creating a nuisance and making the difficult job of policing mass riots even more difficult but for some reason he just isn't saying it and is purposely picking the worst possible answer to each question to make himself looked worse, hes been briefed well.

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Is it true that he can't be charged for anything? I thought, depending on the outcome of the inquest, charges could retroactively be brought?

 

 

Difficult to tell based on second hand accounts but I thought the police counsel gave Harwood a really hard time. His testimony - i.e. his public defence - has been based on how he only did what he was trained to do. Obviously this is no good for the Met. He deserves to be punished but being made the fall guy for the systemic failings of the police would not be right.

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His defense of "only following orders/doing as he was trained" is being ripped apart the representatives of the police. His account of his training and orders contradicts everyone elses.

By the end of yesterday he was doing an almighty amount of backtracking, but he doing a lot of Baldrick defense up until then.

 

Are you Private Baldrick?

No

Come on Baldrick, it's me, George

No it isn't

Did you push Ian Tomlinson when he had back toward you?

No

We can see on the video that he did have his back toward you when you pushed him

No we can't

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Judge Peter Thornton QC has said that PC Simon Harwood, the officer who struck Tomlinson before he died is not on trial. But he said that the Crown Prosecution Service decision not to prosecute him could be reviewed.

"Could be" reviewed? It fucking better be reviewed after the information coming to light.

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I'm not holding my breath. After the DeMenezes fiasco I've resigned myself to the fact that our police are beyond reproach.

Plenty of police officers have been disciplined and/or fired since the DeMenezes shooting.

 

If you're suggesting the officer that shot DeMenezes was at fault, that is absolutely ridiculous. He did the correct thing based on the information he was provided.

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Judge Peter Thornton QC has said that PC Simon Harwood, the officer who struck Tomlinson before he died is not on trial. But he said that the Crown Prosecution Service decision not to prosecute him could be reviewed.

"Could be" reviewed? It fucking better be reviewed after the information coming to light.

That was from the first day. Since then Harwood has proven himself (beyond all reasonable doubt) to be a massive twat.

 

Did the officers in the Menendez case actually face the CPS, or just IPCC?

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I'm not holding my breath. After the DeMenezes fiasco I've resigned myself to the fact that our police are beyond reproach.

Plenty of police officers have been disciplined and/or fired since the DeMenezes shooting.

 

If you're suggesting the officer that shot DeMenezes was at fault, that is absolutely ridiculous. He did the correct thing based on the information he was provided.

 

I was suggesting that the police can seemingly blatantly lie to the public surrounding the circumstances 'He was wearing a bulky coat & rucksack', 'He jumped the turnstile', 'He was warned by officers then fled' etc. & when the truth comes to light that none of this occurred, the police were deliberately trying to cover up & excuse his execution nothing happens.

 

Why am I not surprised that you'll think this is perfectly justifiable behaviour?

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I'm not holding my breath. After the DeMenezes fiasco I've resigned myself to the fact that our police are beyond reproach.

Plenty of police officers have been disciplined and/or fired since the DeMenezes shooting.

 

If you're suggesting the officer that shot DeMenezes was at fault, that is absolutely ridiculous. He did the correct thing based on the information he was provided.

 

I was suggesting that the police can seemingly blatantly lie to the public surrounding the circumstances 'He was wearing a bulky coat & rucksack', 'He jumped the turnstile', 'He was warned by officers then fled' etc. & when the truth comes to light that none of this occurred, the police were deliberately trying to cover up & excuse his execution nothing happens.

 

Why am I not surprised that you'll think this is perfectly justifiable behaviour?

Why do you think we have got to the point where the police feel the need to lie to try and save their jobs? Put ridiculous restrictions on anyone in a high pressure job and they'll cover their backs, particularly in a climate where so many people openly despise the police for whatever reason and will do all they can to cost them their jobs.

 

If you lock up police marksmen for shooting the wrong people in the kind of circumstances that led to DeMenezes death, you wouldn't be able to find anyone who is prepared to do the job. It's as simple as that. Hundreds of people would die as terrorists would know they are untouchable unless they are completely inept. Menezes death was a tragic accident. If anyone is to blame, it is the 7/7 bombers two weeks earlier and the failed bombers the day before.

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Why do you think we have got to the point where the police feel the need to lie to try and save their jobs?

 

Feeling the need to, and actually doing it are quite different things. There is never any justifiable excuse, ever, to falsify evidence.

 

Menezes death was a tragic accident. If anyone is to blame, it is the 7/7 bombers two weeks earlier and the failed bombers the day before.

Erm...no. The half arsed intelligence fed to the armed, plain clothes officers is largely to blame. I do also hold the opinion that a policeman who doesn't follow procedure in such situations - be it through panic or disobedience - shouldn't be given a gun.

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Why do you think we have got to the point where the police feel the need to lie to try and save their jobs?

 

Feeling the need to, and actually doing it are quite different things. There is never any justifiable excuse, ever, to falsify evidence.

 

Menezes death was a tragic accident. If anyone is to blame, it is the 7/7 bombers two weeks earlier and the failed bombers the day before.

Erm...no. The half arsed intelligence fed to the armed, plain clothes officers is largely to blame. I do also hold the opinion that a policeman who doesn't follow procedure in such situations - be it through panic or disobedience - shouldn't be given a gun.

How would the marksman know that the information they were being fed was "half arsed"?

 

Can you imagine the furore that they would have faced had they had the shot, not taken it, and a bomb had been detonated on the tube, killing hundreds?

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