MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[Egg Shen]

Looks like Fight Pass has added the Superbrawl/Icon library to its archive...some outstanding stuff to watch there, great crowds in front of some rabid fans.

 

Gladiator's Challenge is up too.

[Egg Shen]

*double post*

Edited January 4, 2017 by Egg Shen

[jimufctna24]

Gladiator's Challenge is up too.

That brings back memories of Gonzaga's fight with Kevin Jordan at UFC 55, which died on its arse. 

 

Joe Rogan - "This isn't Gladiator's Challenge"

[Egg Shen]

One of the worst fights in history...good finish though.

 

Ironically it was that fight that probably led to the UFC putting Gonzaga up against Crocop in London. They thought Gonzaga was easy picking for Mirko.

[the_mole]

No it wasn't, Gonzaga fought again and looked quite good, Gonzaga had explained the reason for his performance is because his partner had given birth really premature and he was at the hospital rather than training his cardio.

[jimufctna24]

After checking Wiki, it is true that Gonzaga had another outing before the Cro Cop fight. It was at UFC 66. My only memory of the fight is that Rogan was full of praise for Gonzaga's performance before the fight aired. It was a prelim fight, and in those days our broadcaster (Bravo) didn't air prelim fights unless they had spare time at the end of the PPV portion of the show. 

[Egg Shen]

Ahhh my timeline is off then, regardless of that Gonzaga was brought in as fodder.

[jimufctna24]

I think he was served to Cro Cop as fodder. He was initially signed as he was one of the few reasonable Heavyweight prospects available at the time. The UFC needed fresh Heavyweights, as their division was looking grim to say the least. Pride had a near-monopoly on the top heavies until Cro Cop defected in late 2006. 

[ColinBollocks]

Was the first UFC run the beginning of the end of his prime, or was he looking a bit past it before that? I only really started watching when Lesnar started fighting, where Cro Cop looked decent for a while before losing three in a row.

[jimufctna24]

Was the first UFC run the beginning of the end of his prime, or was he looking a bit past it before that?

He'd just won the Open Weight Grand Prix, and was regarded as the outright 2nd best Heavyweight in the world, with an eye on having another crack at Fedor. By late 2005, people thought Cro Cop might have peaked. He lost to Fedor in their long-awaited bout in the summer, and dropped a decision to Hunt on the New Year's Eve show. I recall people arguing that he fought too often, and needed to slow down a bit. There probably is some truth to this. Cro Cop fought a staggering 13 times in the space of 2 years (2004-2005)

 

However, he made 2006 his own. It was easily his finest hour. He looked like a monster in dispatching of Wanderlei - who had not been stopped in 8 years - and had never been knocked out in front of the Pride audience. He then stopped Barnett, who had beaten a surging Mark Hunt, and had outlasted Big Nog in a grapplefest to reach the final. In retrospect, Barnett probably entered the ring against Cro Cop at a significant disadvantage. Cro Cop had stopped Wanderlei fairly quickly earlier in the night, whereas Barnett had gone the distance with Big Nog. But due to Cro Cop having Barnett in his pocket - with two previous wins over him - no one really questioned that. The fight was seen as going to script by most in the west. Pride thought otherwise, and had initially tried to book a 4th fight between the two, before Cro Cop defected to the UFC. Regardless of the circumstances though, given that Barnett's stock was at a 4 year high, the 3rd win over him made Cro Cop look even more deadly.

 

By the time he stepped into the cage to fight Kongo in late 2007, he was certainly washed up. He was a far cry from the fighter he had been less than a year earlier. Whether that was due to him getting old over night, or smoke and mirrors from his stint in Japan (he had a lot of easy fights, even in the 2006 GP), is open to debate. Personally, I think it was more the former, with more than a dash of self-infliction. Time was always going to catch up to him, but his motivation was clearly on the wane. He never gelled with UFC management, or with fighting inside the cage. His team was arguing with UFC staffers on the night of the Gonzaga fight. He also told Big John during the Kongo fight that he was "too old for this shit" or something to that effect. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by jimufctna24

[jimufctna24]

Sherdog have done a top 10 fighters of the 90's list - http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/11/Sherdogs-Top-10-Fighters-of-the-1990s-116821

 

It's pretty subjective stuff. With the sport being in its early days, it was a time of innovation. Therefore, it's more than just being about who was the best fighter, but also the impact they had on the game. Given this, I can't really argue with who they have ranked number 1- even though I would have been a total fanboy and given it to number 2.

 

The list in case you want to skip the descriptions.

 

 

 

1. Royce

 

2. Frank Shamrock

 

3. Ken Shamrock

 

4. Miletich (I raised my eyebrows at first, but upon reading the description, I get their argument)

 

5. Coleman

 

6. Bas

 

7. Vovchanchyn

 

8. Severn

 

9. Sakuraba

 

10. Frye

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by jimufctna24

[Chunk]

The first UFC show I watched was UFC 156 Aldo Vs Edgar. I'm currently (on and off) watching from UFC 1 onward using Fight Pass. It's really interesting to see the way the sport has developed and to see the debut of fighters that go on to become big names. I've largely no knowledge about the UFC pre 156 so it's kind of equivalent to watching it like it hasn't already happened.

 

Not sure how interesting this will be for other people, but it might be fun to be reminded of some of the old stuff. I've just finished UFC 13, which felt like a bit of a turning point in the way the successful fighters were approaching the sport. Royce Gracie dominated in the early days because he had a ground game and nobody else did. Then came the guys that could dominate the wrestling contest and hold a guy down (Severn, Frye) - even when they had no striking they usually came out on top because their opponent couldn't do anything from the bottom. By UFC 13 though we're starting to see fighters that have a mixture of wrestling, stand up and ground skills. MMA fighters!

 

Like 19 year old Vitor (or Victor as half the presenters pronounce it):

 

 

Or debuting Randy Couture and Tito Ortiz:

 

 

 

And what the fuck happened to Joe Rogan:

 

[jimufctna24]

Not sure how interesting this will be for other people, but it might be fun to be reminded of some of the old stuff. 

Keep it coming. I enjoy discussing the old stuff. 

 

Couture is like Sid from Only Fools and Horses. He's always looked like an old git.

[Chunk]

Was the UFC genuinely the first organisation to start staging MMA fights? There's reference to the Gracie invitational events on the early UFC shows and at UFC 14 they show footage from an event where "Battlecage" is written on the mat. Obviously the Gracie stuff pre-dates the UFC but did everything else start popping up after the UFC started?

 

It's interesting to note too that they used the term "reality combat" pretty consistently on shows from around UFC 13 onward. I guess they were trying to uniquely define the sport in some way. At that time, reality TV must've just about begun showing signs of becoming a thing. I guess 'reality combat' fit the demographic and the image they were trying to get across.

[Egg Shen]

There were MMA style events pre-UFC, obviously Pancrase existed in Japan but that had a varying rule-set and Brazil had long since been hosting Vale Tudo events. Im not sure if there fights set in a cage before the UFC though.