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MMA: Past Fight Discussion


Egg Shen

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eh?

 

Ken claims he trained them, then 20 seconds later says he doens't know them. Did i hear that right?

No, he was on about his brother at that point I think.

 

He does say they are "good people" though and then says he does not know them, so he does contradict himself. I just like his one word answers.

Edited by jimufctna24
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"It means a lot, it's really important to me. It's my career, it's what I do. I'm not gonna make any money doing anything else. You know, my family, they work in restaurants. My mom and dad, they work in restaurants...I don't wanna work in a restaurant one day."

 

nick-diaz-1-300x375.jpg

 

With Nick Diaz coming off a big upset and the biggest win of his career in a great fight with Robbie Lawler you'd expect his next fight to be on at least an equally big stage. A fight on the main card of a PPV against another top fighter seemed like the logical thing to do.

 

Not for the UFC.

 

cillablack220x300.jpg

 

That's not a cock up, coming off a huge win the UFC higher ups wanted to send Nick Diaz on Blind Date. Nick fucking Diaz on Blind Date! Cilla wouldn't have been there obviously it was the Yank version but needless to say he refused the offer.

 

Who did the UFC send in place of Diaz you ask?

 

This heartthrob

200px-TimSylvia.png

 

video of Timmy's Blind Date here

 

Imagine Diaz in that situation. Would have been the best thing on TV ever.

 

But for Diaz turning that fantastic opportunity down, there was a price to pay. Here's Urijah Faber to explain;

 

"I remember Diaz telling me years ago how they punished him for not going on that dating show they were having a couple of fighters go on. They would go on this dating show, [the UFC] wanted him on there for publicity. Nick had a girlfriend at the time and he wouldn't do it. They put him and I think Karo on the undercard, somebody vs. Nick Diaz was on the undercard. He's got a chip on his shoulder when it comes to those guys sometimes. They're trying to help him and he's trying to help himself, so I wish the best for Nick, I think they'll make it work out."

 

That's right, Nick Diaz vs Karo Parisyan, 2 of the sport's most promising rising stars at the time, would be a fucking dark match. And not just a prelim, the first prelim on the whole card.

 

Karo-Parsnippyan1.jpg

 

Anyway, Karo Parisyan would be a very tough test for Diaz regardless of placement on the card. Karo at this time was thought to be a possible future Welterweight champion. He had been training Judo under the legendary 'Judo' Gene LeBell since he was 10 years old and had also trained extensively in Greco Roman and Catch wrestling. At the time the Diaz fight was made Parisyan had a respectable 11-3 MMA record against some tough opposition and was highly regarded by the UFC for his potential.

 

Diaz didn't really have a lot to say before the fight;

 

"I think it's kind of a bad match-up for me in a way. But you've just gotta work through it, do what you've gotta do. I've been working on a lot of things for this fight so...I'll do my best."

 

Nick Diaz vs Karo Parisyan

21.08.2004 - UFC 49: 'Unfinished Business'

They get off to a flying start with Parisyan getting a nice throw in early on and from that point on it's pretty much a grappling clinic. Both trading positions and scrambling all over the cage. Really great stuff to watch. Karo seems to be winning the early ground exchanges by ending up in top position more often, landing some good strikes on the ground and getting a couple of nice eye catching slams in.

 

diazparisyan.jpg

 

After a bit of grappling early in the second round Parisyan looked to be tiring a bit and with Diaz being able to stuff the takedowns a bit better they wound up standing more. Diaz lands some decent punches but was hesitant to let loose because of the takedown threat.

 

4632.jpg

 

I'd say they were a round a piece going into the third and the last round is pretty close. The grappling is pretty even really with Diaz constantly trying for submissions from bottom but the difference maker was probably Karo's takedowns and often being on top. Diaz actually went for a gogoplata late in the fight but Parisyan was too crafty for that.

 

Winner - Karo Parisyan by split decision

 

Great fight. It was close but I think Karo deserved the win. His takedowns and ground and pound in rounds 1 and 3 were enough to swing it for him I think.

 

There was also a dodgy Mike Goldberg quote in this fight which were pretty regular at the time

 

Rogan - "Karo is wide open here".

Goldberg -"And Diaz smells the opening."

 

Dirty bastard.

 

Diaz vs Parisyan full fight vid

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/fights/UFC_...risyan/10018218

 

Recent quote from Parisyan on Diaz

 

"Diaz was the best Diaz at the time that I fought him. He was shredded, he was chiseled, he had just knocked out Robbie Lawler - he was the man when I fought him. I beat a good fighter at a good time. And I broke him, he was broken before the fight. Nick Diaz never breaks. And Nick Diaz will say - and if he denies it, it's bullshit - he can go back and look at the fight himself, he can go back and look what he said before the fight. 'It's a bad match up for me.' His entire camp was telling everybody that Diaz was shitting his pants - everybody knows that, I don't care. Diaz would shake my hand. He took a picture with me after I beat him, you hear of Nick Diaz doing shit like that? If Nick Diaz loses to you he's gonna flip you off and say, 'fuck you, don't be scared, homie.'"

 

And of course, no post about Parisyan/Diaz can go without this clip of Karo being a massive bellend on TUF 5 and almost getting into a fight with Nick's brother Nate.

http://www.myspace.com/video/j-o-c-e-l-y-n...hter-5/19903958

 

Diaz's next opponent would be Drew 'The Master' Fickett.

 

Drew-Fickett.jpg

 

A man with a very impressive record of 24-2 at the time of this fight with wins over the likes of Dennis Hallman and Kenny Florian. Fickett was a very experienced fighter with a pretty well rounded game although his BJJ was his bread and butter.

 

"I'd like to win...you know. I'd rather it not go to a decision and I'd rather win in a fashionable style or something like that would be nice. But regardless, I'd like to win the fight."

 

Nick Diaz vs Drew Fickett

05.02.2005 - UFC 51: 'Super Saturday'

Both come out looking to set a fast pace, both landing some strikes and then Fickett takes Diaz down. Diaz does a good job defending himself and landing some good elbows from the bottom and comes very close to locking up an armbar. Fickett keeps trying guillotines and late in round 1 he tries another one but Diaz gets free, ends up on top and goes to town with some ground and pound. Relentless punches to the head and body and Big John waves it off.

 

susumu02.jpg

 

Nick Diaz wins by first round TKO. Very impressive, especially with Fickett being so experienced.

 

Diaz vs Fickett

http://mmavideolinks.to/fighter-videos/273...-nick-diaz.html

 

Fickett's probably best known these days for his win over Josh Koscheck which was one of the most shocking comeback wins in UFC history and his appearance on Judge Judy a few years ago.

 

Next up for Diaz, Koji Oishi.

 

KojOishi.jpg

 

Oishi made his MMA debut at UFC 25 in a losing effort but had gone on to do pretty well on the Japanese circuit notching up wins over good fighters like Chris Lytle and Satoru Kitaoka.

 

Nick Diaz vs Koji Oishi

04.06.2005 - UFC 53: 'Heavy Hitters'

Big size advantage for Diaz in this one. Diaz is 6'0'', Oishi's 5'8'' and also a big reach difference.

 

Weird approach by Oishi for this fight. Has a bit of a strange stance, holding his hands in an odd position and pretty much not protecting his chin at all. Not to mention his fruity yellow shiny shorts. Anyway despite all that he's game and he takes the fight to Diaz right away. Both throwing a lot of strikes but Diaz connecting with much more accuracy. He's got more sting on his shots and pretty soon he rocks Oishi with a left to the jaw. He gets Oishi backed up against the cage and starts to tee off with combinations for another first round stoppage.

 

1205-ufc53-3.jpg

 

Big mismatch. And to make matters worse, Oishi didn't really seem to have a game plan.

 

Diaz post fight

"I heard rumours, people talking about how he wanted to stand up. I saw his fights...looked like his later fights he's punching a lot so I knew you know, he was probably gonna try to work some stand up. And he's a little small to be on the ground, I figured if he'd taken me down I'd be able to get up probably but you never know.

 

I knew if I waited for him to punch I was gonna land my punches. You know, it's gonna be hard for him, he's got shorter reach than me it's kind of a real bad match up for him."

 

Diaz vs Oishi

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/0yjVB-mkOxM/

 

Diaz now appeared to be out of the 'Blind Date doghouse' and was no longer relegated to the prelims. In his next fight he would be facing Ultimate Fighter Season 1 winner, Diego Sanchez in the main event of the TUF Season 2 finale in Las Vegas.

 

Tuf2Finale_display_image.jpg

 

Sanchez had one of the most impressive runs through the TUF field winning 4 fights (3 by first round stoppage) to win Season 1's Middleweight tournament and earn a six figure UFC contract. He'd fought once since the show, a second round stoppage over journeyman Brian Gassaway and was undefeated going into the fight with Diaz.

 

Diaz didn't hide his irritation that a guy like Sanchez was getting all the money and opportunities for winning a reality show while he worked his way up through the small shows and prelims facing some tough opponents.

 

And of course this led to a load of trash talk in the build up to this fight;

 

Diaz

"He gets on a TV show, and then he wins one fight and then they put him on the main event on Spike TV. I'm like why do you get that? First of all, how come you get the six figure contract, how come you get paid more than me? If you're getting paid more than me then, you know...I'm definitely gonna be a little more excited about this ass whoopin' I'm gonna put down on you.

 

My plan is to just take it to him, fight him you know. Just basically beat his ass. He hasn't fought nobody good yet, and he's gonna have to fight me? He fought who, Gassaway? I never even heard...I didn't even know Gassaway fought. If I were him I'd keep my mouth shut. I don't think he should be where he's at right now, I don't. I think he should be a few steps back."

 

Sanchez

"I'm 100% positive, there's no doubt in my mind that I'm gonna win. He can't stop the takedown, he can't stop my ground and pound. I will pass his guard, and I will be on top, and those elbows will be dropping and bones will be breaking.

 

He threw a lucky punch and hit Robbie Lawler. As far as I'm concerned he's not as good as me in submission grappling, he's not as good as me in stand up. He fights like some street fighter out on the street. Until someone can beat me, I'm here so get used to it."

 

As well as all the usual pre-fight talk this one got even a bit more personal when Diego accused Diaz of sending him emails threatening his family.

 

Diaz denied having anything to do with any emails

"He says I sent him email, you know, talking about his family. That's totally bullshit. I don't know anything about that. I don't talk any shit about people's family or people you know...especially people that do this sport like I do 'cos I give it up to whoever steps in there."

 

Even on the night of the fight they nearly got into it backstage before they stepped through the curtain. There's footage of the little altercation on the DVD, not a lot to it really but Diaz throws something at Diego's camp and 'fuck yous' are exchanged.

 

Nick Diaz vs Diego Sanchez

05.11.2005 - UFC: The Ultimate Fighter Season 2 Finale

Intense staredown

 

3499237_sshot-37.png

 

Sanchez smartly avoids the striking and immediately initiates a grappling match. It's non stop from there with countless transitions and reversals from both. Sanchez was able to fire off some good ground and pound and Diaz with some nice sweeps from the bottom. Sanchez starts to gain momentum and do some damage on top in the second round though, and Diaz was constantly working on bottom which kept the pace of the fight going strong.

 

sanchez_vs_diaz_005_large.jpg

 

Sanchez gets cut early in the third. The action is frantic still even in the third round and it's up and down all the time. Diaz gets the better of the striking exchanges but Diego is able to score takedowns when he needs them. Diaz actually slams Diego late in the fight but finds himself fighting off armbars. Diaz ends the fight stronger rolling for kimuras and then working an armbar right at the end of the fight but he ran out of time and the buzzer went.

 

Winner - Diego Sanchez by unanimous decision.

 

Fucking fantastic fight, even better than Diaz vs Parisyan. This was the first MMA fight I saw which really made me appreciate grappling. Up to this point I was very much a fan of the strikers and didn't really get the ground game. But this was a crazy sprint, it was like a Pacquiao fight but on the ground. So much going on it's impossible not to get drawn in.

 

The Diaz post fight interview with Rogan

 

Rogan - "You came into this fight thinking that Diego didn't deserve to be where he is. Do you think he deserves to be there now?"

Diaz - "No I don't. I think he got a little extra help (crowd booing) , no he fought a good fight that's not what I'm saying. You know he held me down, I should've kept my guard closed, should've tried to get up more. I could've done better."

Rogan - "Do you have more respect for him now after that fight?"

Diaz - "You know, I always had respect for him it wasn't that. It was just...uhh...a bunch of bullshit, whatever. You know, hey he's a tough guy I just wanna go home and improve on my wrestling."

 

Another Diaz post fight quote

"I fought the way I thought I should fight but if he was more the striker and I was the grappler then I think I'd have won the fight. Whoever's trying to throw the punches gets taken down. Me being the striker it just worked to his advantage. I just fucked up and got taken down, I shoulda went on top when I had the chance. He was good at jiu-jitsu, good at going on top and doing what he's supposed to do."

 

I can't find a video for this surprisingly. If you've got it though and for some reason haven't watched it yet give it a look, it's worth 15 minutes of your time. Excellent fight.

 

I'll end this one with one of my all time favourite Diaz quotes

 

"I would never do anything against the Gracie team because I

Edited by wandshogun09
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Nick Diaz or Tim Slyvia? No contest for me Diaz all day :love:

 

Skimming down this page before I read this post, I was quite disturbed seeing Cilla Black, Tim Slyvia and Nick Diaz. I was half dreading some sort of deranged love triangle.

 

I remember showing a friend the Sanchez vs Diaz fight just after it happened, he had never watched MMA before and he was amazed how quick and skillful they were on the ground. Much like Wand said, it was easy to appreciate ground work being exciting after watching that.

 

I was always under the impression he lobbed a shoe at Sanchez, even back then I could see the humour in the misery of Nick Diaz which I still see 7 years on.

Edited by jimufctna24
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Ha, I thought Cilla might throw people off. She disturbs me anyway. I shuddered typing her name into Google images, had to clear my search history after cos I felt dirty. She's the devil hiding behind them teeth you know.

 

But yeah, Diaz vs Sanchez is a belter. I always recommend that fight and Maia vs MacDonald to people who wanna see what the grappling side of MMA can be like.

 

I'd add John Maguire vs Damarques Johnson from UFC Sweden to that lelite group now aswell actually.

Edited by wandshogun09
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Agreed, Cilla makes me cringe as well.

 

I would also add Barnett vs Big Nog 2, for a exciting ground war on top of those mentioned.

 

For some reason I was on the edge of my seat for Herman vs Grove on the TUF 3 Finale which was a ground war,that may have not held the test of time as I have not seen it since.

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Oh yeah Nog vs Barnett 1 is a classic. Defo in that group. Add in G-Sot vs Joe Daddy and Saku vs Newton and of course the 3 I mentioned above and that's probably all my favourite grappling based MMA fights.

 

And although short, Belcher vs Palhares on the last FOX show was brilliant also.

 

Good shout on Grove vs Herman. I last saw it about a year ago and it was really good. I still thought Grove tapped though. Herman got mugged imo.

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Oh yeah Nog vs Barnett 1 is a classic.

You rate that more than the second one Wand?

 

I remember both being excellent but rating the second one to be a bit better. These fights made me a Big Nog fan, I was already a big Barnett fan. Think most to rate the first one a bit more, but I remember being on the edge of my seat when Barnett had the guillotine.

 

As for Grove vs Herman, I think I scored it for Grove, but I do remember the tap and being shocked it didnt get called, I may have to track that fight down again.

 

I will have to track down some of Saku's like the one mentioned with Newton, as a MMA fan I am ashamed to admit I have never watched Royce vs Saku all the way through, but have read it is boring and long in some places, and a classic in others.

Edited by jimufctna24
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Now you mention it, I'm not sure which Nog/Barnett fight I preferred. I didn't even notice you put Nog vs Barnett 2. I loved both fights but if I recall correctly the first had a bit more grappling whereas the second they mixed it up more. I remember Nog was really on point with his boxing in the rematch. Havent seen them fights for a bit though so might have mixed them up.

 

Saku vs Royce is boring in places but it has its moments and it's worth watching once at least for its historical significance if nowt else. The Gracie's throwing the towel in and Royce sitting on his stool while Saku and the crowd celebrate is one of the most iconic moments in MMA history.

 

If you're gonna watch any Saku fights I'd also recommend, if you haven't seen them, his fights with Vernon White, Royler Gracie, Renzo Gracie, Rampage and the Kestutis Smirnovas fight from HERO's. But I rate the Newton fight as his best. I fucking love that one.

 

All incredible fights. Saku was way ahead of his time.

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Yeah and the sub on Royler was equally gruesome aswell. Another one to track down which I forgot is his miraculous comeback submission on Zelg Galesic in DREAM.

 

Actually all this Saku talk reminds me, he was set to fight Aoki next month in DREAM, obviously that's off now but it was rumoured that would be his farewell fight. Wonder if he's still planning to have one more fight somewhere.

 

They won't but I'd love to see the UFC promote his last fight. As long as they don't feed him to a killer KO artist I'd love to see it. Something like Saku vs Hughes on the next Japan card would be a fitting farewell I reckon. Two legends and Saku gets to bow out on his home turf on the biggest stage possible. Could be good for the UFC too having Saku's last fight.

 

Like I said though, won't happen. More likely he'll fight on some flop of a card they can't even get televised and they'll either give him some scrub to beat and no-one will give a shit or they'll feed him to a monster and he'll get his other ear knocked off.

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Well they kinda did it with Renzo, even if they only did that allegedgly because Renzo is a big draw in Abu Dhabi. I would also like to see it happen, but I doubt Dana will touch Saku due to his health problems.

 

I first watched Saku in a fight with Nino Scrembi, its a good job I did not judge him on that perfromance. I will still have to track down the fights mentioned above, as I am not that familiar with most of his best work. Makes me feel old (I am 25 in a few weeks) when I think he was on the slide almost a decade ago.

 

He also had one of the best entrances themes in MMA.

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Saw this on a Boxing forum recently, the name of the game is to list controversial opinions you have from the past in MMA. I will start.

 

- If Cro Cop would have fought Fedor in late 2006, he would have beaten him

 

- Fedor's prime was 2002-2005, his last great performance was against Cro Cop. Him vs Couture if it would have happened in 2007/2008 could have got either way. Lesnar would have beaten him in 2009.

 

- If Lesnar had not become ill and took Bas Rutten training tip early in his career he would still be Champion

 

- Lesnar has a better resume than Frank Mir

 

- BJ Penn is the best lightweight of all time and could beat the current crop if he had stuck with the NFL coach

 

- If GSP did not exist Hughes would have passed the touch to Jon Fitch who would become the greatest Welterweight of all time.

 

- Machida is the second best Light Heavyweight alive today, he would have got his belt back if Jon Jones did not exist

 

- Jon Jones is the best ever at Light Heavyweight

 

- Frank Shamrock should be remembered as a all time great for his run in the 90's, his comeback whilst a commercial triumph was a flop inside the cage.

Edited by jimufctna24
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Good idea. Could spark some interesting discussion.

 

I agree with these

 

- Fedor's prime was 2002-2005, his last great performance was against Cro Cop. Him vs Couture if it would have happened in 2007/2008 could have got either way. Lesnar would have beaten him in 2009.

 

- BJ Penn is the best lightweight of all time and could beat the current crop if he had stuck with the NFL coach

 

- Jon Jones is the best ever at Light Heavyweight

 

Especially the BJ Penn one. I've said a few times how big of a mistake I think it was to part ways with Marinovic.

 

On this one;

 

- Machida is the second best Light Heavyweight alive today, he would have got his belt back if Jon Jones did not exist

 

I'm kinda split there cos although I've always said Machida has the best chance to beat Jones, I'm not sure Machida would be champ if he wasn't around. I firmly believe Shogun has his number, his injuries could mean Machida is just in better form right now but I would find it hard to pick Machida to beat Shogun based off how their previous fights went.

 

Also, there's guys like Hendo and Gustafsson who could give Machida problems. Even Rashad in a rematch I think would do a lot better. So it's hard to say he'd be champ if Jones wasn't about but I get your point.

 

Here's mine;

 

-Despite being stopped by him twice, Big Nog was a better fighter than Frank Mir. I don't give a shit what anyone says or even what their records say. That's the way it is.

 

-GSP is on the slide. Condit will pull the upset and beat him late this year and GSP will end up fighting Nick Diaz in a non title 5 rounder when Diaz returns from suspension.

 

-Brandon Vera & Gabriel Gonzaga have the physical skills to be champions but lack the mental toughness.

 

-Miguel Torres was one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history and had a padded record until his WEC title run.

 

-Pre-diverticultitis and surgery Brock Lesnar beats Overeem.

 

-Meathead is alright but nothing special and I've never got the love for him.

 

-Little Nog's win over Jason Brilz wasn't anywhere near as bad a decision as people make out.

 

-Semmy Schilt would have been UFC champ and dominated the UFC HW scene in the Sylvia/Arlovski era had he stuck with MMA.

 

-Wanderlei isn't as washed up as people think and would beat almost anyone at 185 who isn't a massive puncher.

 

-Overeem is very good but overrated and was largely untested at HW before the Werdum fight last year.

 

-Daniel Cormier might be the biggest threat to JDS. Even moreso than Cain.

 

-Stephan Bonnar beat Forrest Griffin in the TUF finale.

 

-I didn't think Rampage's win over Machida was a robbery.

 

-If Andrei Arlovski had Mark Hunt's chin he'd still be a top 5 heavyweight today.

 

-A women's season of TUF coached by Cris Cyborg and Ronda Rousey would be great for the TUF brand and do better ratings than the last few seasons by quite a bit.

 

-Gina Carano isn't that fit.

 

-Shonie Carter is God disguised as a pimp.

 

There. Come at me fuckers.

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Most of them I can agree with.

 

The Schilt one I think is a given, Big Nog I believe is a better fighter than Mir and has a better legacy and I scored the TUF 1 finale for Bonnar. Torres did get exposed, a lot of fans (me included) did indeed think he was better than he was.

 

In regards to Gonzaga, I think he cannot take a punch and has a weak chin, so I think it is more than mental toughness. I can agree with Vera though.

 

The Rampage vs Machida fight was no robbery, it was just a bit crap. I had it at least a draw, but it was no Pham vs Garcia.

 

Shogun is the only fighter other than Jones I may pick against Machida as it is a bad style matchup, Hendo is made for him in my opinion, more technical striking and Hendo would find Machida very hard to hit.

 

You may have a point about GSP

 

Have to disagree with Gina, cracking arse and body. Nice face as well, I only prefer Rousey as she is blonde.

 

A few more I have thought of just now.

 

- Ken Shamrock was fucking cool with sideburns

 

- Ken Shamrock was one of the biggest cunts of all time from 2006 onwards.

 

- Big Nog would beat Fedor if they fought now

 

- Tito Ortiz was/is really afraid of Chuck Liddel.

 

- Chuck is a bit of a cunt with Tito sometimes, as is Dana

 

- Tito Ortiz kept the UFC afloat in before the boom, Couture and Hughes also helped.

 

- Liddel only became a big star in 2004, the win over Ortiz made him.

Edited by jimufctna24
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-Pre-diverticultitis and surgery Brock Lesnar beats Overeem.

-Overeem is very good but overrated and was largely untested at HW before the Werdum fight last year.

I lumped these two together because they both mentioned Reem and I have to agree with both of them. Overeem when he was at LHW wasn't all that, any time he came near a top five fighter at the time he would lose and Werdum was his first big name fighter he had fought at Heavyweight. It was pretty much obvious that Brock went out there for one last big pay day and was going to call it quits and the surgery took too much out of him both physsically and mentally.

-Daniel Cormier might be the biggest threat to JDS. Even moreso than Cain.

 

-If Andrei Arlovski had Mark Hunt's chin he'd still be a top 5 heavyweight today.

Guys like Mark hunt and Roy Nelson will always be in with a chance because they have granite chins, anyone at a similar skill level as Arlosvski would be a top 5 guy with a chin like those two.

-A women's season of TUF coached by Cris Cyborg and Ronda Rousey would be great for the TUF brand and do better ratings than the last few seasons by quite a bit.

I think a wmen's only one could be good, but not with Cyborg. After being caught out using PEDs, Cyborg is now back near the bottom rung, OK with women's MMA there isn't the depth of comepetition so she isn't that low down, but that would also be the problem with a women only TUF.

-Gina Carano isn't that fit.

Seriously?

gina.jpg

I will admit she doesn't do it for me as much Ronda Rousey does, but I wouldn't mind being in the north south position with her.

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