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MMA: Past Fight Discussion


Egg Shen

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Yeah there's a bunch of Japanese fighters like that. Kanehara (currently 27-26-3), Shungo Oyama (now 11-13), Daijiro Matsui (now 11-23-4) to name a few. All guys who seemed like they could have been decent but they kept feeding them to killers.

 

Especially Matsui. He was thrown to the sharks right away, in his first 10 fights alone he was in with Wanderlei, Igor Vovchanchyn, Belfort, Carlos Newton, Sanae Kikuta and Akira Shoji.

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Last night I watched my first Pride event which was the 2003 middleweight grand prix. I thought the shows were brilliant, Wanderlei vs Rampage was brutal! I'm just wondering what shows I should pick up next? Any suggestions would be most welcome.

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Last night I watched my first Pride event which was the 2003 middleweight grand prix. I thought the shows were brilliant, Wanderlei vs Rampage was brutal! I'm just wondering what shows I should pick up next? Any suggestions would be most welcome.

 

If you're not bothered about watching the fights in any order then I'd suggest getting some of the Pride : Bushido boxsets, some cracking fights on them. Bushido The tournament has a welterweight tournament and only has one dodgy fight in it Also check out the Critical Countdown 2004 which is part of the Heavyweight tournament.

 

 

As for the Wandy / Chuck fight. Chuck made a career out of that overhand right as people were backing away, I always though Wandy at that time would have kept close, clinched him and destroyed him.

Edited by chokeout
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Last night I watched my first Pride event which was the 2003 middleweight grand prix. I thought the shows were brilliant, Wanderlei vs Rampage was brutal! I'm just wondering what shows I should pick up next? Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Without a doubt Pride Bushido 9 which is a tremendous card. Four fights of the year on the one show (including Pulver/Sakurai and Gomi/Kawajiri from the Lightweight Tournament first round (I wont say the others as it would spoil things)), a highly enjoyable Mishima/Bennett fight, a couple of quick KOs, Dan Henderson, Murilo Bustamante in fact there isn't a bad fight on the show. The Lightweight Tournament on it is especially superb.

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Get the 2005 middleweight GP. It has plenty of quality fights, the best MMA fight of all time (in my opinion) Shogun/Nogueira, and Fedor/Cro Cop.

The Shockwaves are also worth a view. There are some dire matches on them but some golden ones also: Wandy/Hunt, Fedor/Nog 3 from 2004 are awesome.

Pride 25 has Anderson Silva/Carlos Newton, Rampage/Randleman and Fedor/Nog 1.

 

Need to dig out a few Fedor fights from before 2010 after posting that. :love:

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Deffo get these

 

Bushido 9

(for the reasons Magnum said, I think this was the best show Pride ever did for fight quality)

 

Pride 33

(Probably the best of the numbered Pride's. Gomi vs Diaz is an absolute war, one of the best fights in Pride history. Also Wand vs Hendo 2, Shogun vs Overeem 2, Sakurai vs Danzig are all really good fights)

 

2005 GP

(for the reasons Curry Angel gave. Stacked tournament with all Pride's big names at 205 at the time. Shogun vs Little Nog is a classic, my favourite Pride fight. Plus you get the Fedor vs Cro Cop fight which was one of the biggest heavyweight fights in MMA history. There's some shit like Arona vs Lister but stick with it the tournament gets better and better as it goes on)

 

The Shockwave events are great. There's something awesome on all of them but also freakshow stuff too, which is sometimes awful/sometimes fun. Shockwave 2004 is probably the best of them, absolutely stacked card. And some great fights like Wand vs Mark Hunt, Gomi vs Pulver and the infamous Chonan vs Anderson Silva fight.

 

And seeing as you've just watched the 2003 GP I'd get Pride 28 aswell which has the Wandy vs Rampage rematch. The best fight of their trilogy. And the rest of the card is fun aswell with no fight going the distance.

 

Them are the must see events of Pride I think.

 

My favourite Pride event is The Open Weight Finale in 2006

 

It has, Barnett vs Big Nog in a ground masterclass and Wand vs Cro Cop 2 before a electric atmosphere, other fights on there are exciting as well.

 

Yeah this was a great card aswell. The 2006 GP is a bit underrated imo. Barnett vs Nog 1 is fucking brilliant, I love that fight. The 2nd fight ain't bad either but a totally different style of fight. Cro Cop against Wand was the scariest in his career I think. He schooled Wand that night. I've always felt Wand made a big mistake bulking up so much for that GP, he actually outweighed Mirko in that fight. He was never the same when he came back down to 205.

Edited by wandshogun09
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Pride 33

(Probably the best of the numbered Pride's. Gomi vs Diaz is an absolute war, one of the best fights in Pride history. Also Wand vs Hendo 2, Shogun vs Overeem 2, Sakurai vs Danzig are all really good fights)

I actually watched this show last night! Gomi vs Diaz blew me away, amazing fight.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions, when I have the funds I shall be picking a few of the shows up.

 

Cheers guys :thumbsup:

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After the recommendation of the book No Holds Barred it has got me right in the mood to watch the early UFC's again, I'm only up to chapter 8 or 9 where UFC 6 is next so I am downloading UFC 1-6 tonight to watch through.

 

I know there's nothing fancy and a lot of the fights are sub par but some of the characters and fights are amazing, really looking forward to checking them out again actually.

 

That book has been all kinds of awesome so far as well, highly recommended.

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Glad you liked the recommendation for that book Hulk. I'm loving it aswell, I'm up to the IFC chapter now, so about halfway through the book.

 

It's made me throw in a couple of old UFC's too. Watched UFC 3, 6 and Ultimate Ultimate 96 during the week. It's kinda fucked up my Wanderlei Silva career thing which is why I've been slow with that. I'm hoping to get back to it sometime over the weekend.

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Tea%20Silva%20Fighters%20Only%20World%20Mixed%20Martial%20kv6WPZ_fNpVl.jpg

 

Wanderlei and his wife

 

Wanderlei Silva vs Yuki Kondo

15.08.04 - Pride: 'Final Conflict 2004'

Pride Middleweight champ vs Pancrase Light Heavyweight champ. Rampage joins Mauro and Bas on commentary and it's already been announced that him and Silva will rematch for the title in October.

 

They start off throwing bombs and Kondo is constantly coming forward showing no fear. About 2 minutes in Wand counters a leg kick with a big right hook that really wobbles Kondo and has him on the retreat. He eats a couple more shots and a left puts him on his back. Wand then stomps his face in.

 

susumu13.jpg

 

One of the scariest, most violent knockouts ever. Kondo is still on rubber legs for a while after the fight. There's a shot of him leaving the ring and as he's climbing through the ropes he nearly falls headfirst out of the ring.

 

Some cool Wand/Kondo backstage footage I found on Youtube

 

The fight

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTk3NzM3NjQ=.html

 

After the fight, Rampage enters the ring for a brief face off with Wanderlei now their title match is the focus. It's a pretty tame face off compared to their Pride 25 altercation. They keep them at a distance this time.

 

Shortly after the Kondo fight Wanderlei attended UFC 49. This was one of the times where Pride were supposed to be sending some of their stars over for the odd fight in the UFC in return for the UFC allowing Chuck Liddell and Ricco Rodriguez to compete in Pride events the year before.

 

After Randy Couture beat Vitor Belfort in the main event, he mentioned Wanderlei as a possible opponent and they even had a brief, respectful face off in the Octagon.

 

_tdana%20white15.jpg

 

Unfortunately it led to nothing. And was one of a few times where Pride basically used the UFC to adverise their brand in the US because they had plans to bring shows over there.

 

Anyway, the rematch is on...

 

pride28.JPG

 

As expected, there was plenty of trash talk in the run up to this fight. Some pre-fight quotes.

 

Wanderlei

 

"Personally, I don't think anything about him. I just don't like him. I'll just face him like any other opponent. So I think I'm going to knock him out again and this will be a very aggressive fight. Usually when I fight a fighter that I don't like, it makes me very motivated. It makes me fight even better."

 

Rampage

 

"I'm glad he don't like me. He's been on a winning streak too long. Everybody has their day, well it's time for him to lose. You can't be on top forever, right now it's my turn. He whooped my ass last time. It's time for me to return the favour".

 

Wanderlei Silva vs Quinton 'Rampage' Jackson 2

31.10.04 - Pride 28: 'High Octane' - Pride Middleweight Title

The mind games start right away with this one, even during the pre-fight national anthems. While the Brazil one is playing Rampage is casually on his mobile. Wanderlei doesn't look amused.

 

Pretty even to start but Wanderlei kept getting the Muay Thai clinch. Rampage took some hard knees to the head and body suffering a cut in the process. Rampage changed it up and got a takedown and did a good job of controlling him and posturing up at certain points to drop some good punches. Wand landed a nasty upkick that seemed to hurt Rampage pretty bad and from then on he just lay on Wanderlei until the ref ordered a standup.

 

With one minute left of the first round, Rampage cracked Silva with a hard right hand that dropped him and Silva looked badly rocked.

 

susumu18.jpg

 

He seemed to recover, even going for submissions off his back as Rampage got in a bit of ground and pound to close out the round.

 

More of a sense of urgency from Wanderlei in round 2 and he starts to let loose a bit more. The big significant moment in the fight comes about halfway through round 2 as Wand lands a huge right hook that Rampage makes worse by leaning into it.

 

SilvaRampage.gif

 

Rampage is badly, badly hurt and Wandy grabs the clinch again and throws knee after knee until one lands flush and knocks Rampage out cold sending him through the ropes.

 

silva-rampage2.gif

Wanderlei_Silva_vs_QuintonJackson_1000401.jpg

 

Sweet Christ. Wand was very happy to say the least...

 

Wandy.png

 

That initial right hook was devestating. That was the beginning of the end and must have been especially sweet for Wand considering Rampage was slagging off his punching power before the fight.

 

And talk of Rampage's pre-fight mobile phone antics during the Brazilian national anthem appeared to have pissed off Wanderlei even more. Rampage claimed to have been talking to his girlfriend but Wanderlei believed otherwise...

 

"He wasn't talking to his girlfriend, he was booking a room at the hospital"

 

:laugh:

 

Wand vs Rampage 2 (can only find a clipped version sorry)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ns7w_si...jackson-2_sport

 

Wanderlei Silva vs Mark Hunt

31.12.04 - Pride: 'Shockwave 2004'

The original plan for this event was meant to be a 4th Wanderlei vs Sakuraba fight. Obviously that would have been a big fight for the fans but it made very little sense to do that again after Silva had already KO'd him twice.

 

Sakuraba withdrew from the fight and we got this instead. Wanderlei taking on the heavyweight K-1 veteran from New Zealand, Mark Hunt. A legit heavyweight with serious power in his strikes and obviously being a Samoan, a hard head and an iron chin.

 

He'd only had 2 MMA fights at this point and was 1-1 with a win over Dan Bobish and a loss to Hidehiko Yoshida. In K-1 though he held KO wins over Jerome Le Banner, Peter Graham and Stefan Leko. He'd also fought Ernesto Hoost, Ray Sefo and Mirko Cro Cop in K-1 so he'd been in with the best of the best in striking at the time.

 

His fights with Le Banner and Sefo in particular were wars and some of the most entertaining fights in K-1 history.

 

toughness-o.gif

 

Needless to say, this would be a very tough task for Wanderlei who was giving up over 70lbs in weight to Hunt. Randy Couture joined the commentary team for this one which was interesting given the post fight face off a few months earlier in the UFC.

 

Silva did well early on, moving around and exploiting Hunt's grappling weakness by taking the big man down. This is where Wand had problems though, because although Hunt was a novice in grappling, his massive weight advantage meant that he could power out of a lot of the positions.

 

Hunt clips Wand with a left hook and knocks him down in an early exchange but he doesn't look too hurt by it. Wand fires back with a nice trip takedown and some stomps and soccer kicks. Wanderlei gets another nice takedown straight into side control and goes for an Americana but again Hunt's size allows him to roll out of danger.

 

And then it happened....

 

atomic-butt-drop.gif

 

"ATOMIC BUTT DROP" - as it's aptly named by Randy Couture. I don't believe this has happened since in MMA. Might be one for Roy Nelson to try in his next outing.

 

Silva was very aggressive late in the round but Hunt knocked him down again. This time a right hand and Wandy looked rattled by it. Hunt followed him to the ground for some ground and pound which in hindsight probably allowed Silva time to recover.

 

At this point another personal highlight for me happened that I've never seen anyone else mention. Randy Couture said 'cunt' on commentary :omg: . Don't believe me have a listen to the announcing towards the end of the 1st round. He didn't mean to say it and that makes it funnier to me. He got 'Hunt' and 'cut' mixed up and it came out as...

 

"There's a small cunt....errr...cut over the left eye of Hunt". Followed by an awkward pause and then Bas clearly trying to stifle a chuckle as he starts talking.

 

:laugh:

 

Very early in round 2 Hunt stuns Wanderlei with a punch and follows up with a big uppercut and a right hook which decked Silva again. This looked worse than the last knockdown and Wand looked in deep shit. Hunt again followed him to the ground and he recovered yet again. Gotta be a bit of inexperience there because if he'd called Silva back up I really think he was ripe for the KO.

 

susumu19.jpg

 

Wanderlei makes a miraculous comeback and it's pretty much all him in the 3rd. Fairly even round on the feet but Wand takes over with his takedowns and gets full mount a few times and lands some decent shots from there and ends the fight in mount position.

 

It goes to the judges and Hunt wins a split decision in a great back and forth fight. I loved this one, a total war from start to finish.

 

This marked the end of Wanderlei's 4 year unbeaten run in Pride. He gave a good account of himself though, especially against a much bigger opponent and surviving the big shots to finish strong.

 

Both Randy and Bas on commentary didn't agree with the decision and Randy even said he was "dumbfounded" at the result. To be honest it was close and especially taking into account the weight difference and Wand finishing strong. But I thought Hunt won myself. 3 knockdowns, he was never really hurt himself plus the Atomic Butt Drop sealed it for me. Tremendous fight though either way.

 

Backstage Wand/Hunt footage

 

And the fight (can only find the Jap version though so you won't hear Randy's 'cunt' on this sadly. It's on the DVD though trust me)

http://vimeo.com/11516947

 

As usual, a Wand-ism. This time Wanderlei fondly remembers his KO of Rampage in their second fight

 

"In the second round, I come back.. I wanted to kiieeellll him, and punch, kicks, punch, kicks.. and I give the clinch and give him 1, 2, and the last knee, I put the knee, I, I.. I don't feeling my knee.. I keep the knee, and I look and he's down! I said.. 'Maaaaann!!'"
Edited by wandshogun09
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chute_boxe.jpg

 

Chute Boxe in their heyday were the most feared team in MMA for their aggressive style. Rumours of their well known 'gym wars' were legendary.

 

Wanderlei was the most successful member of the team at this time but coming off his first loss in Pride to Mark Hunt he was looking to prove himself again as the most dominant 205lb fighter in Pride. So he entered the 2005 Pride Middleweight Grand Prix looking to repeat his 2003 achievement by winning the tournament again.

 

This time though, the pool of talent was even deeper than in 2003. So deep that unlike the 8 man tournament 2 years earlier, this time the field would double to 16 men. Probably the most stacked tournament for big names and pure talent in MMA history, even to this day. New additions to this field included Vitor Belfort, Alistair Overeem, Igor Vovchanchyn, Ricardo Arona and Antonio Rogerio Nogueira. Wanderlei would have his work cut out.

 

11646985710.g.jpg

 

There were lots of interesting possibilities going into this Grand Prix. A 3rd meeting with either Rampage and Sakuraba. A rematch with Belfort who had knocked him out early in both their careers. Another possible opponent was Ricardo Arona of Brazilian Top Team, the biggest rivals of the Chute Boxe group.

 

Maybe the most interesting possible scenario involved Wanderlei's Chute Boxe teammate, Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua.

 

mauricio-shogun-rua.jpg

 

As well as being teammates, Wanderlei and Shogun were good friends. The way the brackets were set up it was possible the 2 could meet in the GP finals. But Shogun was thought to be too young and inexperienced to get that far. He looked promising but had only had 9 fights at this point. Plus he was paired with Rampage in the opening round of the tournament and was considered a big underdog in that fight.

 

Wanderlei Silva vs Hidehiko Yoshida 2

23.04.05 - Pride: 'Total Elimination 2005' - Middleweight Grand Prix Tournament Opening Round

After their classic semi final in the 2003 GP, they decided to pair these two up again as the main event for the first of 3 PPV's covering the tournament.

 

This time Wanderlei surprised everyone by taking the Olympic gold medal winning Judoka down early in round 1. Strange tactics considering his biggest advantage lay in the stand up. The first round is close with both trading takedowns and the action on the ground is pretty much a stalemate. Round 2 is much the same with not a whole lot going on and both seeming very cautious. Wanderlei probably slightly edged these rounds for doing slightly more damage with strikes and also submission attempts off his back but they were close rounds.

 

Round 3 is a complete turnaround. A lot more action, both seemed to realize it was close so they wanted to close the fight with something big. Wand landed a lot of effective leg kicks which really took their toll in this round and Yoshida was hobbling on his left leg.

 

wand_display_image.jpg

 

Wand started to pick him apart and in the final minute of the fight he knocked Yoshida down with a punch and followed up with a stomp, but Yoshida caught his leg and almost got a toe hold. Wand escaped but then Yoshida almost got a guillotine choke just as the bell rang to end the fight.

 

Wanderlei Silva takes a split decision and advances to the quarter finals.

 

susumu05.jpg

 

Good fight, not a patch on the 2003 one but decent and the 3rd round was great stuff from both. Couldn't find a link for this one.

 

Earlier the same night, teammate Shogun pulled off the upset win destroying Rampage inside a round knocking out one of the tournament favourites.

 

Wanderlei Silva vs Kazuhiro Nakamura

24.06.05 - Pride: 'Critical Countdown 2005' - Middleweight Grand Prix Tournament Quarter Final

The pre fight interview with Nakamura is hilarious. They showed clips of it before the fight but the full thing is in the DVD extras and it's tremendous stuff.

 

Interviewer: "Wanderlei says you have no chance"

Nakamura: "Tell Wanderlei, shut the fuck up...shut the FUCK UP"

 

and they edited this gem in the PPV version aswell

 

"I am...velly confident...that I...can...bean Wanderlei. BEAT...BEAT Wanderlei"

 

They keep trying to get him to say stuff in English and Nakamura rolls with it, pissing himself laughing throughout. I liked Nakamura, seemed to have a bit of a personality to him unlike some of the super serious stoic answers a lot of Japanese fighters give.

 

Nakamura chooses to begin the fight in a half Gi with just the top and his usual shorts, probably on the advice of his mentor Hidehiko Yoshida who had a lot of success using his Gi in his 2 fights with the Axe Murderer.

 

The fight is pretty much all stand up while it lasts and early in the fight Nakamura is doing pretty well for himself. After a few minutes though Wanderlei starts to find his range and drops him with a left and follows up with some ground and pound.

 

They wind up on the feet again and for some reason, Nakamura decides to stop and casually take off his Gi top. Big mistake as Wand takes the distraction as an opportunity to deck Nakamura, mount him and unleash a series of punches forcing the ref to stop it. Enjoyable little fight there.

 

susumu22.jpg

 

Wanderlei Silva by TKO, round 1 and advances to the semi finals.

 

Full fight including Nakamura's pre-fight "shut the fuck up" here

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/u4XtpVDwkZE/

 

The next fight was a long time coming. Like I mentioned earlier, the Chute Boxe vs Brazilian Top Team rivalry was pretty intense.

 

btt.jpg

 

BTT was home to the likes of Mario Sperry, Murilo Bustamante and the Nogueira brothers and although they were all well rounded MMA fighters their roots were in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Chute Boxe fighters like Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva, Jose 'Pele' and the Rua brothers were more known for their striking skills, especially Muay Thai although they all had good BJJ aswell.

 

The rivalry led to some classics and one of the first was Mario Sperry vs Murilo 'Ninja' Rua at Pride 20 which was a tremendous fight. The beef between the camps seemed to be mostly just a competition thing, about who the best Brazilian camp was more than anything personal.

 

In this 2005 GP, the camp rivalry continued when Chute Boxe's Mauricio 'Shogun' Rua faced BTT's Antonio Rogerio Nogueira in the quarter finals in one of the greatest Pride fights ever.

 

ruanog.jpg

Mauricio-Rua-Vs.-Antonio-Rogerio-Nogueira.jpg

 

Fights like Sperry/Ninja and Shogun/Nogueira were wars but there was very little to no trash talk pre-fight and the fights ended in handshakes. There wasn't any real problems there. But there was clearly some real bad blood between Wanderlei Silva and Ricardo Arona.

 

22720.jpg

 

The shit talking between the two went back a while. Arona was very vocal in an interview with Tatame before the 2nd Wand/Rampage fight at Pride 28.

 

I love this Wanderlei quote when asked about Arona

 

"He's a good athlete. Everybody wants to be the champion, but you've got to fight for it. He's still very young and has a lot to learn. Arona needs to put down the violin and get a hold of his little sack. What he should be worried about is when he's in front of me and I spank him like a child."

 

Before the fight Arona was critical of Wanderlei's Jiu Jitsu skills

 

"I think he's good stand up but on the ground he need to learn a lot. You can train on the ground but to be really good you need more. More time, more experience. He can defend this way but not attack on the ground. Just defense. He's not a danger to me, I don't worry with his ground.

 

I'm not afraid of anyone. Just God. Men like me?...have bones and blood like me? I'm not afraid of him."

For all the talk between the two, Arona also had a style that could give Wanderlei problems. Arona was the bigger man having competed at heavyweight in the past even going to a very close decision with Fedor Emelianenko in a fight in the RINGS promotion a few years earlier.

 

He had good takedowns and most of all serious high level Brazilian Jiu Jitsu credentials going undefeated in the ADCC tournaments and outgrappling recognizable MMA names like Mark Kerr and Vitor Belfort, as well as BJJ greats like Jean Jacques Machado and Saulo Ribeiro.

 

Wanderlei Silva vs Ricardo Arona 1

28.08.05 - Pride: 'Final Conflict 2005' - Middleweight Grand Prix Tournament Semi Final

 

wanderleistare.jpg

 

It's clear what the gameplans are for this one. Wand seems weary of the takedown threat and a bit hesitant to commit to his strikes right from the off. After a few minutes of very little action on the feet, Arona manages to get Wand on his back after kicking his legs out from under him. As you'd expect from a grappler of his calibre, Arona had excellent control on top and although Wand did a good job defensively he couldn't shift him.

 

Because of Wanderlei's defensive skills and Arona being happy to just maintain top position and land the odd punch, the action on the ground wasn't the most exciting. In fact there were long spells where pretty much fuck all happened. At times Arona postured up and landed some good shots but nothing too damaging.

 

Wanderlei-Silva-vs-Ricardo-Aron.jpg

 

Most importantly though, Arona was winning. It was the first time Wanderlei had looked in danger of losing at 205 in since he first appeared in Pride almost 5 years earlier. They stand them up a few times and in the brief exchanges Arona didn't do too bad but as soon as Silva would start to connect he'd wind up on his back again and he stayed there until the fight ended.

 

Ricardo Arona wins a unanimous decision and becomes the first 205 fighter in Pride to beat Wanderlei. Ending Wanderlei's 5 year run as an unbeaten Middleweight. The belt wasn't on the line but this win earned Arona a shot later in the year.

 

Full fight

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ysa6oXLanno/

 

So that win not only knocked Wanderlei out of the Grand Prix, it also killed the only chance we'd ever have of seeing Wanderlei Silva vs Shogun Rua. Teammate vs teammate in the finals of the biggest tournament in MMA would have been huge. And being my 2 favourite MMA fighters, it's a dream fight for me.

 

Closest we can get to seeing that fight is this video of them squaring off in training...

 

Wanderlei vs Shogun - Chute Boxe style

 

Shogun blitzing through Arona in the finals the same night seemed to please Wanderlei more than anyone in the arena. He looked even happier than Shogun did to be honest.

 

20060219152116.jpg

 

Although the Wand vs Shogun fight didn't happen, the possibility of it meant we got a story we might not otherwise have heard.

 

Wanderlei and Shogun having a fight to the finish over a dog....

 

When Shogun
Edited by wandshogun09
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