General politics discussion thread

[Happ Hazzard]

What government post was George Osbourne in "3 or 4 years ago"?

[Van Dammer]

Something ive noticed in the last few months with regards to the VAT increases, astonishing petrol prices is that I dont know anybody that has adjusted their lifestyle because of these rises. Everyone I know complains about them but I dont know anybody that now walks to work instead of driving or walk their kids to school instead of getting in the car. Even when it comes to food, its not as if people are changing their diets, getting a vegetable patch or simply buying a simple cook book to make cheaper meals.

 

The main thing is petrol, I barely drive these days but it astonishes me that people will pay these prices for petrol instead of walking. Its no wonder the price has gotten to where it is today with the modern societies bone idleness. The recent 'The Sun' campaign to get the government to cancel the latest fuel duty rise was a joke when the paper didnt even mention to its moron readers that Petrol prices are worked on a supply and demand basis and if we all drove a bit less, prices would come down.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Van Dammer

[David]

What government post was George Osbourne in "3 or 4 years ago"?

He wasn't in Government, obviously. Why do you ask?

[Happ Hazzard]

How is it relevant what George Osbourne said when he not in a position to act on it? It's irrelevent. The only thing that matters is what governments do once elected. Labour were an utter disaster on every concievable level. That is beyond question at this point. Will the Coalition be any better? Maybe, maybe not. But judging them on the basis of what someone said when he was on the other side of the house 3 years ago is utterly asinine.

[David]

How is it relevant what George Osbourne said when he not in a position to act on it? It's irrelevent. The only thing that matters is what governments do once elected. Labour were an utter disaster on every concievable level. That is beyond question at this point. Will the Coalition be any better? Maybe, maybe not. But judging them on the basis of what someone said when he was on the other side of the house 3 years ago is utterly asinine.

As always when it comes to you Happ, I disagree.

 

He believed that the methods being used by the Irish were the way to go, and he's stuck to his guns since then.

[mikey]

Sorry on the immigration issue, I'm married to somebody who emigrated to Spain and she says the level of acceptance and the level to which she is allowed to integrate by social acceptance is much higher here, a country where she doesn't even share the native tongue. In Spain, Peruvians and Ecuadorians are very much considered the lowest of the low and my wife, being South American, is lumped in with them. I suppose that there are a lot less, say, Asians in Spain and so it's fairly incomparable.

Edited March 1, 2011 by mikey

[Chris B]

Sorry, Happ, but since you've posted multiple times in this thread since then, you may have missed that I directed a few points directly to you. Especially since you were complaining about points being dismissed and all that.

[Bashar]

What government post was George Osbourne in "3 or 4 years ago"? ..........How is it relevant what George Osbourne said when he not in a position to act on it? It's irrelevent.

 

What's the forum's opinion on Ed Miliband renouncing New Labour's open door immigration policy?

 

Er.........

 

There is no left wing hegemony, yet opinions can just be dismissed by saying they are "PC gone mad" or "Daily Mail shit", with no further argument necessary?

 

If people want to read leftie pie-in-the-sky bullshit.....

 

I see.

 

I think people are sick of being told lies such as "we have always been a nation of immigrants", "there is no such thing as indigenous Britons" (3) or "British culture is worthless" or "the British Empire was shameful" etc etc etc.

 

There's a big advert at my local train station (Ealing Broadway, pretty liberal middle class, lots of BBC workers etc) for Lurpak butter - "Empires were never built on Muesli Bars". This is clearly an attempt to bask in the past glories of British imperialism. To be honest, I was a bit 'Really? Empires were never built on Muesli Bars? Really?' - but I think it's a pretty clear sign that there is no liberal hegemony dominating the channels of communication and that you're like the guy from A Beautiful Mind without the.....beautiful mind. Or any kind of mind at all really.

 

Labour were an utter disaster on every concievable level.

 

Apart from saving the NHS from 'rationing' and twenty year waits for operations, hugely reducing crime, preventing employers paying

[Happ Hazzard]

Apart from saving the NHS from 'rationing' and twenty year waits for operations

At a cost that simply cannot be afforded long term, so therefore pointless...

hugely reducing crime

hugely reducing reported crime, if you think actual crime was lower in May of last year than it was in May of '97 than you must be completely deluded.

preventing employers paying

[Happ Hazzard]

Who says British culture is worthless?

Plenty of people. Mostly Guardian-types or other liberals. It's usually disguised by use of weasel-words but there has been a clear agenda for the past 30 years or more of downgrading traditional British culture and promoting foreign cultures as equal to or better than our home-grown culture that has been exported so succesfully around the world that it has largely been internalized and is often not even recognised as being British.

 

What do you class as 'indigenous Britons'? How far back do you have to go?

People who have no known ancestry from anywhere other than Britain?

 

Would you go up to Native Americans or Palestinians and ask them how far back they go and question whether they are in fact indigenous?

 

Don't you think there were shameful elements of the British Empire? I think there were some advantages to the countries that took part, but (again, looking at things from the Irish point of view, because it's an example I know very well), I can see a lot of disadvantages for anyone that was on the 'colonised' rather than 'colonising' side of the fence.

I don't think the British empire is any more shameful than people in general were at the time. The world was open for the taking and we did as good a job of taking than any other nation. Then we were among the first countries to try and stop the worst excesses of colonialism, we did more than any other country to stop slavery. The likes of China and India today owe a hell of a lot to the British in putting them in the situation where they are becoming the dominant countries in the world. The US do as well.

[Bashar]

There were far more people working for low wages at the end of Labour's government than there ever was under the Tories of 79-97, and almost certainly than there was at any point post WW2.

 

Tits (i.e. evidence) or GTFO

 

And referring to be as a silly right-wing nutjob displays exactly how worthless your arguments are.

 

No, the brilliant quality of my arguments - utilising logic and evidence - show exactly how worthy my arguments are. The right wing nutjob stuff is just sweet sugar. I've displayed how worthless and hypocritical your arguments are above. Besides, moaning about benefits being used to get children out of poverty and deriding hypothetically unsustainable NHS reforms that have saved actual lives, reduced actual human suffering and enhanced quaity of life as pointless are perfect illustrations of (i.e. evidence for) your sociopathy.

[mikey]

Apart from saving the NHS from 'rationing' and twenty year waits for operations, hugely reducing crime, preventing employers paying

Edited March 1, 2011 by mikey

[Bashar]

Apart from saving the NHS from 'rationing' and twenty year waits for operations, hugely reducing crime, preventing employers paying

Edited March 1, 2011 by Bashar

[patiirc]

[

Labour were an utter disaster on every concievable level.

 

Apart from saving the NHS from 'rationing' and twenty year waits for operations, hugely reducing crime, preventing employers paying

[Bashar]

many jobs can circumvent the minimum wage requirements and are hence forth not included so can pay lower wages afaik

 

Which jobs? We talking about waiters and such? I don't agree with tips being used to make pay up to minimum wage levels, and it became illegal to do so in October 2009. What other jobs circumvent the requirements?

 

And yes, the increase in unpaid internships is a very bad thing (although a separate issue really) - they are technically illegal and this is a law that should be enforced. Labour did not do enough to enforce employment law, I'm glad you agree. The Conseratives want to see less enforcement.

 

5. Northern Ireland Peace Process has been on going in one form of another for years.

 

And actually started getting somewhere once Mo Mowlam became Northern Ireland Secretary. It wasn't difficult to spot the difference.

 

6 Quantify Child Poverty . People say they have taken x to y, but what does that actually mean in real terms... Milk Vouchers and Child Allowance had been arround for ages and ages and ages? So what else had been done to lift these supposed things. Do the children know they were in poverty and what set of standards was this poverty measured?

 

Bla bla blah ba ba. You would argue with any stats I gave you no matter how awesome they were. Do you have a degree in Pol Sci? Philosphy? Well I do, so I know better than to think that 'real terms' is actually a meaningful phrase or to get bogged down in meta-argument with somebody who has no intellectual acuity to speak of.