UKFF Questions Thread V2

[KingOfMetal]

Currently watching the Best of WCW Monday Nitro Vol.2 bluray, now I'm guessing that the workers featured in the matches get paid some kind of royalty-payment, but were does the cut off come. I'm assuming that Bischoff gets paid something, but would guys like Schivone, Zabysko get paid a fee too ?

[Vamp]

Dandy vs Park?

 

DANDY VS PARK?

 

LINK! NOW! EL DANDY, ONE OF THE BEST WORKERS EVER, VS PARK? LINK ME!

 

Ask and ye shall recieve.

[air_raid]

If The Ultimate Warrior had never been fired in 1992 would Mr. Perfect have ever turned babyface?

 

Probably not :

 

What were the plans for Mr. Perfect in 1992/93 if Ultimate Warrior had teamed with Savage at Survivor Series, as originally scheduled?

There weren't any. Hennig had been talking about feeling good enough to return to the ring, but nothing imminent was planned. They literally turned him face to accept Savage's offer on Prime Time because Warrior couldn't team with Savage as originally scheduled. It was a good bit of crisis booking.

 

 

What would of happenned regarding Ric Flair's WWE career? Would they of simply had Warrior beat Flair in a loser leaves WWE on Raw?

 

Stop saying "would of." You used the tense correctly in the Perfect question. There's a joke in there for grammar geeks.

 

It's impossible to say what would have happened to Flair, especially in respect to Warrior, since he only made the decision to move on after Warrior had been dismissed - 15th December 1992 in Madison, WI to be exact. So at no point could a Flair/Warrior "loser leaves the WWF" match have been considered.

 

There were a couple of times when plans had to change in respect to Flair. I always assumed the booking of SummerSlam and the intended main event of Survivors was meant to build towards a Flair/Warrior title match at either the Rumble or 'Mania IX, and that only Flair's injury necessitated dropping the belt to Bret. Flair's book implies that Vince always intended him to merely transition the belt from Savage to Bret, but in Hart's book, aside from the fact he knew he'd been on Vince's "list of six names" (to be the next champion) and that he'd worked Flair on a couple of house shows, he was only told he was going to win the belt ON THE DAY in Saskatoon, in a meeting that he had no foreknowledge of what it was about. In fact at first he thought Vince was giving him an "I've done everything I can with you" speech with the intention of letting him go!

 

I always felt that Bret taking the title from Flair was more crisis booking, getting the belt off Flair at the earliest opportunity when he got hurt. For all we know there's a chance that the intention was for Flair to regain the title and go ahead with a scheduled title match with Warrior. We'll never know, since in the five weeks Flair was out, Warrior managed to get himself (and Davey Boy) the sack. If Flair had still been in the title picture by New Years, he might have stayed. If he'd dropped the title to Hitman, Flair/Razor v Ultimate Maniacs proceeded as planned and Slick Ric still decided to leave, maybe it would have been Warrior to give him the heave-ho. Maybe Savage, as the one with the most history with Flair. Maybe Bret, as the new champion, would have been given the honour as another way to make him look the real deal. Maybe they'd have still had the Perfect falling out if Hennig was eying a comeback, just later than it actually occurred. Maybe Razor would have finished Flair, since Vince was asking Flair to do the honours for Ramon in Madison when Flair decided to leave. Only one bloke knows for sure.

 

Personally I'd have had Hart/Flair at the Rumble with Flair publicly stating that if he couldn't take the belt back from Bret, he'd leave.

Edited July 5, 2013 by air_raid

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I think if Warrior would have stayed, they'd have asked him to lose to Bret Hart and he would have walked out. Or he'd have been asked to sell for Shawn Michaels and he'd have walked out. The Warrior was never going to stay around for long. He never stayed for more than a few months anywhere in his career post 1991. Anyway, the WWF had the Undertaker who captured the imagination of fans who wanted something completely mental and over the top. The Warrior was knackered by 93.

 

Mind you, I think they'd have tried to roll the dice on a second Hogan vs Warrior match in 93 if they were still around. It seems like such an easy buyrate in a time when business was down. And Hogan wanted his win back.

Edited July 5, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[air_raid]

I think if Warrior would have stayed, they'd have asked him to lose to Bret Hart and he would have walked out.

 

As I'm sure you know, Bret was in Vince's ear about that particular scenario for Mania IX virtually as soon as he won the title and was devastated when Warrior got sacked. I think for the sake of his own ego, missing out on beating Warrior upset Bret than seeing his own brother-in-law sent to the dole queue on the same day.

 

EDIT - only just seen the bottom of the sig, boss man. You couldn't make it up, that's amazing.

Edited July 5, 2013 by air_raid

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Shit, I really want to see a match between Bret and the Warrior now. An interesting combination to say the least. Did that ever happen? They had the tag in WCW but a singles?

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I dont think they would mesh to be honest. Bret and Warrior never seemed the right fit. Same with Bret and Hogan. The type of great matches Hogan had didn't fit well with the type of great matches Bret Hart. The way they both sold didn't mesh with the way each other gave offense if that makes any sense. Hogan and Warrior liked to sell offense, where as Bret liked to break his opponents down. I just couldn't imagine seeing Warrior sell the leg and take Russian Leg Sweeps and stuff. Maybe I'm wrong. Same with Austin really. Hogan and Austin seemed like an awful match waiting to happen. The likes of Bret and Austin aren't big bumpers and they aren't big giant types, which was Hogan's formula. I cant see Austin bumping around the Rock did, making Hogan look better than what he is. Its why the Sting vs Hogan matches were usually always shite. If Hogan sells, he prefers impact moves like Earthquake or Boss Man would do, as opposed to bulldogs and backbreakers and stuff like that.

 

And Warrior was just a mad bastard, so fuck knows what Warrior and Bret would have been like. I imagine like those early Undertaker vs Bret matches. I think that's what Michaels and Savage always had over Bret in a way. They had egos, sure, but they didn't mind showing a bit of fear and deviating from their game plan. Whereas Bret would work the same way against PCO as he would against the Undertaker. He didn't show any fear or anything. Whereas Hogan wouldn't have stood for that. Bret would have had to do what Hogan wanted, because Hogan never did anything he didnt want to do.

 

EDIT: I have no idea if any of the above made any sense.

Edited July 5, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[wandshogun09]

I always find it mental that Warrior's original run only lasted, what, less than 5 years all in? 1987-1992 wasn't it? And that's not counting him fucking off after SummerSlam '91. His original WWF stint was less than half the time TNA has been going. The entire duration of Warrior's big run is about the same amount of time that's passed since Ric Flair's 'retirement' at WrestleMania. The years as an adult seem to go a lot quicker than when you're a kid don't they. It's amazing when you think of the lasting impression he left in such a relatively short time.

[Devon Malcolm]

I dont think they would mesh to be honest. Bret and Warrior never seemed the right fit. Same with Bret and Hogan. The type of great matches Hogan had didn't fit well with the type of great matches Bret Hart. The way they both sold didn't mesh with the way each other gave offense if that makes any sense.

 

I remember WWF magazine around the time of Wrestlemania 9 running with a front page about Bret v Hogan. I don't think they were hinting that there was definitely going to be a match, I think it was a speculation / presumption thing and inside they did a comparison of the two's strengths and weaknesses.

[Vamp]

It's amazing when you think of the lasting impression he left in such a relatively short time.

 

Its probably partly because he was around a relatively short time that he made such an impression to be honest. That's not a knock on his skills either.

[air_raid]

I remember WWF magazine around the time of Wrestlemania 9 running with a front page about Bret v Hogan. I don't think they were hinting that there was definitely going to be a match, I think it was a speculation / presumption thing and inside they did a comparison of the two's strengths and weaknesses.

 

It was an inset on the cover of the July '93 edition (the June edition being Mania results) and they had shot the famous "tug of war with the belt" shoot on May 24th which Bret says he was told was promotional shots for SummerSlam. Bret was told by Vince on May 29th he was getting the belt back, but not to talk to anybody else about it until he'd ran it by the Hulk.

 

Depending on who you believe, Hogan turned around to Vince and said "I agreed to do the job for Yoko and then leave, I'm doing it for Yoko, not Bret" or Vince never even broached the subject of losing to Bret with him.

 

Shit, I really want to see a match between Bret and the Warrior now. An interesting combination to say the least. Did that ever happen? They had the tag in WCW but a singles?

 

As far as I know, no.

Edited July 5, 2013 by air_raid

[Reznor]

Cheers for the recommendations Reznor! To be honest I reckon I could watch Park do anything. I'm about to get Dandy vs. Park on the go. Got any Shocker matches I should be checking out?

 

There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot on the streaming sites from Shocker that I could use to put forward a case for his greatness. If only I had one of those VHS converters.

 

To be fair, he’s not so much one of those guys with an amazing portfolio full of high end motyc’s and whatnot (although a lot of the stuff below was highly pimped at the time). He’s more about the overall package – the character, gimmicks, promos, skits, entrance, comedy etc in addition to the solid ringwork. Not that I even understood half the stuff he was saying, but he was captivating and had a great presence about him. He’d always entertain in trios matches, no matter what role he was in.

 

Here's some decent stuff I could find, but most of these are kinda workrate heavy, Japan influenced 02-03 stuff. I wouldn’t say they particularly encapsulate his persona, maybe with the exception of the mask match which was awesome in its own right with the intertwining feuds, story and drama. I still hated that such a big match and heated feud wasn’t just built as an epic mano a mano instead of a short one fall mini-match, but it was still great. Shockers heel turn back in 1999 was particularly fun.

 

I imagine he’s probably someone who it’s more fun to have followed on a weekly basis to see what shenanigans he'd be getting up to, than going back to cherry pick individual pieces of good stuff that stand out. So just go out buy all the CMLL TV blocks from 1999 and 2000 and you’ll see!

 

Anyways;

 

Anniversary Show 1999. Parejas Increibles, with losing team facing off

 

Shocker vs Dr Wagner (March 2002) (CMLL World Light Heavyweight title defence)

 

Shocker vs Ultimo Guerrero (December 2002) (CMLL World Light Heavyweight title defence)

 

Shocker v Vampiro - hair vs hair

 

Shocker v Tarzan Boy

 

Anniversary show 2002, CMLL tag titles

 

 

And some of those Park matches I mentioned, along with some randoms;

 

Guadalajara

 

 

- this definitely was on TWC as I remember it.

 

 

LA Park, Marco Corleone vs Dr Wagner, Dos Caras Jr

 

Can't find anything other than highlights of those tag title matches I mentioned earlier, which is a shame as they were real good.

 

If you rate Dandy as one of the best ever, it can only be based on his late 80s/early 90s stuff against the likes of Casas, Angel Azteca and Pirata Morgan etc.. The 2004 match is still good fun, but it doesn't compare to any of those classics during his prime.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Reznor

[TheShowOff]

I'd love for the tug of war belt shots to surface one day... WWE should do a big hardback book (size of the encyclopedia) which is full of rare photos with notes, such as this oft spoken about photo shoot. Sketches for costumes, notes on entrance themes etc etc etc. I'd buy two in case my spunk got in one, which would be likely.

[Vamp]

That's awesome Reznor, I'm looking forward to getting cracking with some of those. Cheers mate.

[Dr.PeterVenkman]

I'd pretty much stopped watching Smackdown at the time so never really understood it but why did Paul Heyman have it in for Benoit before Royal Rumble 2004? Was it to do with Benoit (and Cena) beating Heyman's team at Survivor Series '03 or was it just Heyman being generic heel authority figure #476?