All Star Wrestling results

[Carbomb]

There's a few exceptions in every case - whilst guys like El Ligero and Dave Moralez could be even better with some All Star tours under their belt, they're easily on a par with alot of Dixon's roster.

I'm sorry, I've kept out of this so far but El Ligero and Dave Moralez are most definitely NOT on a par with Robbie Brookside, James Mason, Frankie Sloane, Mikey Whiplash, Dean 2 Xtreme, Robbie Dynamite, Chad Collyer (who IS a regular now), Kid Cool, Danny Collins (semi-regular, sporadic), Jonny Storm, Phil Powers (semi-regular) and others.Plus, Karl Kramer trounces Moralez in the "big man" stakes in every single way.Regardless of whether anyone personally "rates" any of the above talent, Dickos regulars are, without question, some of the best workers in the country.Don't believe me? Ask Collyer who he thinks are good workers (he's gone on record saying Mason and Dynamite are two of the best wrestlers he's ever faced). Ask Danielson. Ask McGuinness. Ask Chris Hero. Ask Colt Cabana.In fact, ask pretty much any wrestler who has had even a passing experience of All Star whom they regard to be great workers and I can pretty much guarantee that at least one, if not more, of the above names will be mentioned.

That's fanboyism at it's absolute worst, as far as I'm concerned. Stop trying to make out like it's fact. Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise.Secondly, why should asking the wrestlers you've mentioned make any fucking difference? Just because they say someone is good doesn't necessarily make it so, and it doesn't automatically make the guys they've praised better than someone elses. That's ridiculous logic.Every time I've seen Ligero and Moralez perform, they've gotten the heat they're supposed to, and they've gotten it in spades. What I've seen of All Star, quite frankly, makes me wonder what you lot are on about. They're decent, but they're not the wonderful workers you make them out to be.

I'm sorry, I've kept out of this so far but El Ligero and Dave Moralez are most definitely NOT on a par with Robbie Brookside, James Mason, Frankie Sloane, Mikey Whiplash, Dean 2 Xtreme, Robbie Dynamite, Chad Collyer (who IS a regular now), Kid Cool, Danny Collins (semi-regular, sporadic), Jonny Storm, Phil Powers (semi-regular) and others.Plus, Karl Kramer trounces Moralez in the "big man" stakes in every single way.

I agree. Moralez is another guy I would class as having potential at the moment but he is still someway behind all the guys you have listed and a number more who work regularly or semi-regularly for Dixon. In some ways his style and appearance would fit in quite nicely at All Star as the British scene isnt exactly overflowing with decent heavyweights in general let alone big heels and I think working regularly in front of larger and less smarky audiences than he has often been used to would only be of benefit to him and help him become a better worker.

See my above post. Moralez is still improving, but that's as patronising and wrong a post as I've ever seen from any All Star fanboy.

[Snitsky's back acne]

 

That's fanboyism at it's absolute worst, as far as I'm concerned. Stop trying to make out like it's fact. Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise.

 

Secondly, why should asking the wrestlers you've mentioned make any fucking difference? Just because they say someone is good doesn't necessarily make it so, and it doesn't automatically make the guys they've praised better than someone elses. That's ridiculous logic.

 

Every time I've seen Ligero and Moralez perform, they've gotten the heat they're supposed to, and they've gotten it in spades. What I've seen of All Star, quite frankly, makes me wonder what you lot are on about. They're decent, but they're not the wonderful workers you make them out to be.

 

 

.....and your blind praise of Ligero and Moralez at the expense of others ISN'T "fanboyism at it's absolute worst" then?!

 

Okay.....

 

As for Ligero and Moralez "getting the heat they're supposed to" - are you then saying the All Star crew I've mentioned don't, because seriously the last time I attended an All Star show, shock, horror, the babyfaces were getting cheered to the point of being swarmed by kids as they came to the ring, and the heels (one of which was the "utter shite" Karl Kramer) were being boo'ed out of the building.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT "heat you're SUPPOSED to get"?

 

(...and being laughed at for being fat and looking stupid when you're meant to be a nasty, "Human Hate Machine", which is what happened the last time I saw Moralez wrestle, is NOT what I call "getting the heat you're supposed to get")

[Carbomb]

That's fanboyism at it's absolute worst, as far as I'm concerned. Stop trying to make out like it's fact. Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise.Secondly, why should asking the wrestlers you've mentioned make any fucking difference? Just because they say someone is good doesn't necessarily make it so, and it doesn't automatically make the guys they've praised better than someone elses. That's ridiculous logic.Every time I've seen Ligero and Moralez perform, they've gotten the heat they're supposed to, and they've gotten it in spades. What I've seen of All Star, quite frankly, makes me wonder what you lot are on about. They're decent, but they're not the wonderful workers you make them out to be.

.....and your blind praise of Ligero and Moralez at the expense of others ISN'T "fanboyism at it's absolute worst" then?!Okay.....

Yes, because my praise of them really has been blind, hasn't it? I've never given reasons as to why they're great workers, and I've never attempted to explain why they can be considered two of the best workers in the UK, have I? Oh, wait - actually, that's what you just did.

As for Ligero and Moralez "getting the heat they're supposed to" - are you then saying the All Star crew I've mentioned don't, because seriously the last time I attended an All Star show, shock, horror, the babyfaces were getting cheered to the point of being swarmed by kids as they came to the ring, and the heels (one of which was the "utter shite" Karl Kramer) were being boo'ed out of the building.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT "heat you're SUPPOSED to get"?

There's a thing called "reading" - you should use it more often.Where did I say the All Star guys weren't doing that? I'm not attacking the All Star guys (except Krammer), I'm defending Moralez and Ligero against your absurd claims that they're not in All Star's league.To simplify: I'm not saying All Star is rubbish, I'm saying that Moralez and Ligero are as good as, if not better than, they are.

(...and being laughed at for being fat and looking stupid when you're meant to be a nasty, "Human Hate Machine", which is what happened the last time I saw Moralez wrestle, is NOT what I call "getting the heat you're supposed to get")

I would just love to know how you came up with such a conclusion from a whole crowd - you must have really been walking around, asking people. I'm of the firm belief you've just made it up. Everywhere I've seen Moralez wrestle, he's seen as a nasty bastard who beats the shit out of people - he makes kids jump up and yell at him from the barriers in large numbers, he makes some kids cry, I've seen him face down adults right back into their seats when they tried squaring up to him, and I've seen him get filthy heat for the things he does in the ring. But, of course, this wouldn't suit your argument, would it?

[Snitsky's back acne]

That's fanboyism at it's absolute worst, as far as I'm concerned. Stop trying to make out like it's fact. Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise.Secondly, why should asking the wrestlers you've mentioned make any fucking difference? Just because they say someone is good doesn't necessarily make it so, and it doesn't automatically make the guys they've praised better than someone elses. That's ridiculous logic.Every time I've seen Ligero and Moralez perform, they've gotten the heat they're supposed to, and they've gotten it in spades. What I've seen of All Star, quite frankly, makes me wonder what you lot are on about. They're decent, but they're not the wonderful workers you make them out to be.

.....and your blind praise of Ligero and Moralez at the expense of others ISN'T "fanboyism at it's absolute worst" then?!Okay.....

Yes, because my praise of them really has been blind, hasn't it? I've never given reasons as to why they're great workers, and I've never attempted to explain why they can be considered two of the best workers in the UK, have I? Oh, wait - actually, that's what you just did.

As for Ligero and Moralez "getting the heat they're supposed to" - are you then saying the All Star crew I've mentioned don't, because seriously the last time I attended an All Star show, shock, horror, the babyfaces were getting cheered to the point of being swarmed by kids as they came to the ring, and the heels (one of which was the "utter shite" Karl Kramer) were being boo'ed out of the building.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT "heat you're SUPPOSED to get"?

There's a thing called "reading" - you should use it more often.Where did I say the All Star guys weren't doing that? I'm not attacking the All Star guys (except Krammer), I'm defending Moralez and Ligero against your absurd claims that they're not in All Star's league.To simplify: I'm not saying All Star is rubbish, I'm saying that Moralez and Ligero are as good as, if not better than, they are.

(...and being laughed at for being fat and looking stupid when you're meant to be a nasty, "Human Hate Machine", which is what happened the last time I saw Moralez wrestle, is NOT what I call "getting the heat you're supposed to get")

I would just love to know how you came up with such a conclusion from a whole crowd - you must have really been walking around, asking people. I'm of the firm belief you've just made it up. Everywhere I've seen Moralez wrestle, he's seen as a nasty bastard who beats the shit out of people - he makes kids jump up and yell at him from the barriers in large numbers, he makes some kids cry, I've seen him face down adults right back into their seats when they tried squaring up to him, and I've seen him get filthy heat for the things he does in the ring. But, of course, this wouldn't suit your argument, would it?

Okay, Carbomb.It seems to be getting a little personal now so.....Firstly, can I just point out the first paragraph of your post replying to my initial comments. You said "Stop trying to make out like it's fact" in reference to me saying Ligero and Moralez are not on a par with the wrestlers I mentioned, and then went on to say "Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise."Seems someone needs to take their own advice.Also, you used the statement "There's a thing called READING, you should use it more often" and then go on in the last paragraph of your most recent post to say "I would love to know how you came up with such a conclusion from a whole crowd" when, in fact, if you take your own advice and read what I said, I never actually stated "the whole crowd" laughed at Moralez for being fat and looking stupid.I have been in attendance though when people near me have laughed at him gurning across the ring and trying to look hard. That's the truth.Thirdly, it's hard to think you're not completely objective in thinking Moralez and Ligero are as good as, if not better, than most, if not all of the All Star crew, when you appear to have four links at the bottom of your posts to SAS Wrestling, a company where, correct me if I'm wrong, Ligero and Moralez are regulars are they not?Seems I'm not the only fanboy, huh?Sorry to be so pedantic old chap but if you're gonna try and be a smart-arse with your snide comments and little digs at me, make sure there's nothing that can come back and bite you on the arse, yeah?

[Carbomb]

That's fanboyism at it's absolute worst, as far as I'm concerned. Stop trying to make out like it's fact. Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise.Secondly, why should asking the wrestlers you've mentioned make any fucking difference? Just because they say someone is good doesn't necessarily make it so, and it doesn't automatically make the guys they've praised better than someone elses. That's ridiculous logic.Every time I've seen Ligero and Moralez perform, they've gotten the heat they're supposed to, and they've gotten it in spades. What I've seen of All Star, quite frankly, makes me wonder what you lot are on about. They're decent, but they're not the wonderful workers you make them out to be.

.....and your blind praise of Ligero and Moralez at the expense of others ISN'T "fanboyism at it's absolute worst" then?!Okay.....

Yes, because my praise of them really has been blind, hasn't it? I've never given reasons as to why they're great workers, and I've never attempted to explain why they can be considered two of the best workers in the UK, have I? Oh, wait - actually, that's what you just did.

As for Ligero and Moralez "getting the heat they're supposed to" - are you then saying the All Star crew I've mentioned don't, because seriously the last time I attended an All Star show, shock, horror, the babyfaces were getting cheered to the point of being swarmed by kids as they came to the ring, and the heels (one of which was the "utter shite" Karl Kramer) were being boo'ed out of the building.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't THAT "heat you're SUPPOSED to get"?

There's a thing called "reading" - you should use it more often.Where did I say the All Star guys weren't doing that? I'm not attacking the All Star guys (except Krammer), I'm defending Moralez and Ligero against your absurd claims that they're not in All Star's league.To simplify: I'm not saying All Star is rubbish, I'm saying that Moralez and Ligero are as good as, if not better than, they are.

(...and being laughed at for being fat and looking stupid when you're meant to be a nasty, "Human Hate Machine", which is what happened the last time I saw Moralez wrestle, is NOT what I call "getting the heat you're supposed to get")

I would just love to know how you came up with such a conclusion from a whole crowd - you must have really been walking around, asking people. I'm of the firm belief you've just made it up. Everywhere I've seen Moralez wrestle, he's seen as a nasty bastard who beats the shit out of people - he makes kids jump up and yell at him from the barriers in large numbers, he makes some kids cry, I've seen him face down adults right back into their seats when they tried squaring up to him, and I've seen him get filthy heat for the things he does in the ring. But, of course, this wouldn't suit your argument, would it?

Okay, Carbomb.It seems to be getting a little personal now so.....Firstly, can I just point out the first paragraph of your post replying to my initial comments. You said "Stop trying to make out like it's fact" in reference to me saying Ligero and Moralez are not on a par with the wrestlers I mentioned, and then went on to say "Karl Krammer is NOT better than Moralez - I've seen both, and Krammer's just big. That's all. He's utter shite otherwise."Seems someone needs to take their own advice.Also, you used the statement "There's a thing called READING, you should use it more often" and then go on in the last paragraph of your most recent post to say "I would love to know how you came up with such a conclusion from a whole crowd" when, in fact, if you take your own advice and read what I said, I never actually stated "the whole crowd" laughed at Moralez for being fat and looking stupid.I have been in attendance though when people near me have laughed at him gurning across the ring and trying to look hard. That's the truth.Thirdly, it's hard to think you're not completely objective in thinking Moralez and Ligero are as good as, if not better, than most, if not all of the All Star crew, when you appear to have a large advert at the bottom of your posts promotiong SAS Wrestling a company where, correct me if I'm wrong, Ligero and Moralez are regulars are they not?Sorry to be so pedantic old chap but if you're gonna try and be a smart-arse with your snide comments and little digs at me, make sure there's nothing that can come back and bite you on the arse, yeah?

Hey - I'm not the one who started with the snide comments and digs, so don't try and take the moral high ground. As for stuff that bites you in the arse, again - really fucking rich coming from you.As for me stating that Karl Krammer being shit is fact - I've said it time and time again: I am NOT going to type IMO after every fucking sentence I type, understand? You take that as a given. And before you say "do the same for mine", I will point out that the exact way you worded your sentence left no room for that particular caveat. You basically tried to make out that Moralez and Ligero not being in All Star's league was a cast-iron, indisputable fact, which is what I object to.Of course, I'm not completely objective about Moralez and Ligero, I happen to work for SAS Wrestling (although all the sentiments I've expressed on this thread so far are my own opinions, and not the company's) - do you really expect me to just nod along with whatever you happen to say? "I agree, our guys are not as good as All Star's", or, even worse, tacitly agree by saying nothing? But the fact is I can be equally critical about people on the SAS roster as I have about those on the All Star roster; I'm not so biased as to be unable to make reasoned arguments as to why certain people are good or bad. So you can take your own little snide ad hominems about my subjectivity, give them to someone who gives a damn, and worry about your own. Furthermore, here's something to bite you in the arse: you still haven't explained, in one, solitary, factual way how Moralez, Ligero, or anyone else popular on the UK scene, are not in the same league as your All Star wrestlers. Not a single word. All you've done is pick up on small points in my argument to cover up the strong likelihood that you're wrong.

[Chris.]

Oh boy.Moralez & Ligero are definately in All Stars league. And with that I'm out.

[Flood]

So, what are the latest All Star results then?

[Snitsky's back acne]

Hey - I'm not the one who started with the snide comments and digs, so don't try and take the moral high ground. As for stuff that bites you in the arse, again - really fucking rich coming from you.As for me stating that Karl Krammer being shit is fact - I've said it time and time again: I am NOT going to type IMO after every fucking sentence I type, understand? You take that as a given. And before you say "do the same for mine", I will point out that the exact way you worded your sentence left no room for that particular caveat. You basically tried to make out that Moralez and Ligero not being in All Star's league was a cast-iron, indisputable fact, which is what I object to.Of course, I'm not completely objective about Moralez and Ligero, I happen to work for SAS Wrestling (although all the sentiments I've expressed on this thread so far are my own opinions, and not the company's) - do you really expect me to just nod along with whatever you happen to say? "I agree, our guys are not as good as All Star's", or, even worse, tacitly agree by saying nothing? But the fact is I can be equally critical about people on the SAS roster as I have about those on the All Star roster; I'm not so biased as to be unable to make reasoned arguments as to why certain people are good or bad. So you can take your own little snide ad hominems about my subjectivity, give them to someone who gives a damn, and worry about your own. Furthermore, here's something to bite you in the arse: you still haven't explained, in one, solitary, factual way how Moralez, Ligero, or anyone else popular on the UK scene, are not in the same league as your All Star wrestlers. Not a single word. All you've done is pick up on small points in my argument to cover up the strong likelihood that you're wrong.

You seem to be a very angry young man Carbomb and clearly have issues that need to addressed outside of the confines of a discussion forum. I say that in the nicest possible way. Seriously."My" All Star wrestlers!? I mean, really, what's that all about!?You also apparently seem to have a strong need to hear that you're right so.....okay, you win, you're right.It was naive and stupid of me to say that El Ligero and Dave Moralezs are not on a level with the All Star roster and I was only nit-picking and being pedantic because I was "wrong" all along and didn't want to admit it.Infact, if you can send me their e-mail addresses I'll apologise to them both personally for not thinking they are as good as you think they are.I can do no more. Any chance we can drag it back to show reviews and results now?

[Carbomb]

Hey - I'm not the one who started with the snide comments and digs, so don't try and take the moral high ground. As for stuff that bites you in the arse, again - really fucking rich coming from you.As for me stating that Karl Krammer being shit is fact - I've said it time and time again: I am NOT going to type IMO after every fucking sentence I type, understand? You take that as a given. And before you say "do the same for mine", I will point out that the exact way you worded your sentence left no room for that particular caveat. You basically tried to make out that Moralez and Ligero not being in All Star's league was a cast-iron, indisputable fact, which is what I object to.Of course, I'm not completely objective about Moralez and Ligero, I happen to work for SAS Wrestling (although all the sentiments I've expressed on this thread so far are my own opinions, and not the company's) - do you really expect me to just nod along with whatever you happen to say? "I agree, our guys are not as good as All Star's", or, even worse, tacitly agree by saying nothing? But the fact is I can be equally critical about people on the SAS roster as I have about those on the All Star roster; I'm not so biased as to be unable to make reasoned arguments as to why certain people are good or bad. So you can take your own little snide ad hominems about my subjectivity, give them to someone who gives a damn, and worry about your own. Furthermore, here's something to bite you in the arse: you still haven't explained, in one, solitary, factual way how Moralez, Ligero, or anyone else popular on the UK scene, are not in the same league as your All Star wrestlers. Not a single word. All you've done is pick up on small points in my argument to cover up the strong likelihood that you're wrong.

You seem to be a very angry young man Carbomb and clearly have issues that need to addressed outside of the confines of a discussion forum. I say that in the nicest possible way. Seriously."My" All Star wrestlers!? I mean, really, what's that all about!?You also apparently seem to have a strong need to hear that you're right so.....okay, you win, you're right.It was naive and stupid of me to say that El Ligero and Dave Moralezs are not on a level with the All Star roster and I was only nit-picking and being pedantic because I was "wrong" all along and didn't want to admit it.Infact, if you can send me their e-mail addresses I'll apologise to them both personally for not thinking they are as good as you think they are.I can do no more. Any chance we can drag it back to show reviews and results now?

Dear God, man - what is it with people calling others "angry" just because they happen to be passionate in a belief they hold? Or that they "have a strong need to hear that they're right"? This is a discussion forum, which means that you discuss things, and don't retreat into such cheap epithets if a debate isn't going your way. It's demeaning and undignified, and - and I say this with no intention of sycophancy in the slightest - from what I've seen of your previous contributions to the forum as a whole, unworthy of you.And if you had simply said that you didn't believe Moralez and Ligero to be on the level of the All Star roster, instead of attempting to portray your opinion as a fact and a consensus that everyone should hold, you wouldn't have had this much of an argument out of me. Did you not see the rather low-key and civil discussion between myself and ASSA?I am not asking you to admit that the two gentlemen about whom we have been arguing are better than or equal to the All Star roster - I am asking you to admit that your belief in their inferiority is only an opinion, and to state clearly why. To be perfectly honest, the reason I was so aggressive before was because the way you made your statement came across as a bit obnoxious; calling others inferior to a product you like, and then passing it off as fact, puts out that feeling, surely you can see that?Instead of the sarcasm, I suggest we just call it a day on this discussion.

[$tew]

I think as someone who watches quite a lot of British wrestling - ranging from All Star through to SAS and many places in between - I think I may as well offer a quick opinion here, because I think Snitsky's Back Acne is overstating the ability of the All Star roster quite a lot. Again, as someone who has a fair bit of experience watching both Moralez & Krammer in the last few months, I can categorically state that I feel anyone who thinks that Krammer "trounces Moralez as a big man in every single way" is missing the boat by a long way.

 

The All Star audiences are different than the audiences you get at so many other wrestling shows. For a start, there are a lot of people who go to Dixon's shows who'd never bother going to a SAS/IPW/Whatever - a bunch of people who are there to have a good time booing and cheering in a pantomime manner with their kids. All Star audiences react to EVERYTHING. That's one of the things that blew my mind when I went to a Croydon show last year for the first time. People were popping for hiptosses like they were People's Elbows, grannies were laughing in the aisles at the "heel gets crotched" spots, and all a babyface had to do was shout "Easy!" once, and the place would erupt into "Easy" chants. And it's not like the same crotch spots and many of the same things aren't repeated on every Dixon Croydon Show... but the fans are going in with a mindset to treat it like it's a Christmas Panto and play along with the "call and response" aspects of the show as if they're seeing it for the first time. Obviously there are shows when nobody cares - such as Moj's Cardiff show, apparently - but in many venues, especially ones where he runs regularly, there is a very obvious pantomime/kayfabed aspect to the wrestling that you don't find that in too many other places in the UK.

 

So what I'm saying is... just because Karl Krammer regularly gets booed out of the buildings in All Star shows, that doesn't necessarily make him a "far better" big man than Moralez, or a more effective heel. It's simply that the audiences he works in front of most of the time are audiences that are more willing to buy his schtick. If Moralez worked in Krammer's spot on All Star shows, he'd get every bit the reaction - if not more.

 

I know Dave does do some camp shows which are All Star-esque in their execution, but for the most part, he works promotions where you can't be lazy and get away with the minimal amount for the maximum reaction. In fact, I think Krammer would struggle to get any decent reaction out of a so-called "Smarky" crowd outside the ubiquitous "Who ate all the pies?" chants. For me, Moralez has the ability to work both your workrate intensive shows and also your happy clappy shows with equal aplomb. In fact, he even turned his hand at working a fantastic comedy match with Mad Man Manson last weekend in Birmingham.

 

Don't get me wrong - I actually quite enjoy Krammer's work, and he was part of an awesome hardcore tag match with Sam Slam vs Zebra Kid & Earl Ling that was the main event of one of the best shows I've seen all year for WAW at The Talk, so I'm not dissing him in any way - but using "easy" All Star reactions as conclusive proof that he's far better than Moralez is just wrong.

[stewey]

Its obviously down to personal choice and different peoples favourite.In my opinion, Ligero and Moralez would go down rather well at any All Star show. As soon as the kids see Ligero's mask, they'd love him from the start and would no doubt enjoy his high flying, Mysterio like offense like they do Kid Cool's and Dean Allmarks and Moralez is a great heel, who like Stew said gets a reaction from most crowds and although different in style to guys like Mikey Whiplash and Robbie Dynamite, is every bit the bad guy.To be honest, i dont know why either doesnt work for All Star already.As far as the argument goes, as i said both would fit in very well, but theres guys on the All Star roster James Mason and Robbie Brookside especially that anyone in the UK would have trouble matching up with for pure skill and experience, so on that note, i dont think either are as good as these two, but they definately match up well against the rest and are better than a few members too.

[alex shane's selling ability]

I cant comment on Ligero but I'll accept my opinion on Moralez may be affected by the fact ive really only seen him against much smaller guys and these matches have pretty much been squashes with pretty much just a series of high impact moves and very little actual wrestling.I still think the abilities of the All Star roster are often underplayed due to a number of them not working regularly (if at all) for more internet-friendly promotions and vice versa and there are a number of examples over the years where Dixon, Conway & Freemantle have used workers that I have heard others rave about but that have failed to get over in the environment where you often have to work longer matches and have to connect and react to the live audience in a different way than they may be used to.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Instead of the sarcasm, I suggest we just call it a day on this discussion.

Agreed.It WAS only my opinion and maybe it was put across in the wrong way.I got my back up cos your initial response to my post seemed, to me, a tad aggressive and a little personal (despite what it may seem I am not a "fanboy" of All Star despite, on the whole, liking their product) so my initial reaction was to go on the attack.Childish, perhaps, but hey.....Just to make it clear, I don't in any way think Ligero and Moralez are untalented.I don't really "get" Moralez the way others do, I'll say that much, but I can appreciate that people like him and think he is very talented.I reckon both would benefit from a run with All Star and would probably fit in very well, but I just don't, at the moment, think they are quite where some of the All Star guys are.That's not to say they couldn't be, as I'm sure they both will be one day.So, we'll call a treuce on this discussion.Things were getting a little out of hand, and I accept my part in that.Oh, just one more thing though.....in future, just accept what I'm saying IS fact and that everyone who has a different opinion to mine is wrong and irrelevant and we'll get along just fine!

[Carbomb]

Absolutely fine. We disagree on the abilities of said wrestlers, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[dangerously420]

Can anyone confirm to me when the Dunoon show starts and finishes? Reason am asking is that the last ferry back to gurock is at 8.45