Paid Members JNLister Posted June 28, 2008 Paid Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Why are MOJ and $tew arguing here and not in a new edition of the radio show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$tew Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Why are MOJ and $tew arguing here and not in a new edition of the radio show?Laziness. In other news, I'm going to see All Star tonight in Stevenage. Hope it's better than MOJ's experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted June 28, 2008 Paid Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 That would imply there's an experience worse than going to Stevenage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 28, 2008 Paid Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 from the only point of view that matters to me in terms of British wrestling and its advancement, contributes absolutely fuck-all.I'd have to disagree with this. People who want to learn how to work will go to Brian (or Phil Powers, or the holiday camp circuit) for a job. There are exceptions - I don't believe guys like Dave Moralez, El Ligero and Martin Kirby have done All Star, and they're great. But guys like Marty Scrull, Robbie Dynamite, Dave Jackson and many others have improved greatly, or are currently getting better in Jackson's case, thanks to steady work with All Star. Ditto for Sloan's trainees who have started working for Brian. And when someone comes along who might have a chance of putting British Wrestling back in prominance, it'll be these guys who should give the product some credibility, at least from an in ring perspective.That's a matter of opinion. I personally believe that it's the likes of Moralez, Ligero, Kirby et al who haven't worked All Star who are more likely to give the product credibility, because they're not stuck in a carny "make-money-at-the-expense-of-creativity" mindset. He's not a great creative talent, and, from the only point of view that matters to me in terms of British wrestling and its advancement, contributes absolutely fuck-all.See thats where I beg to differ. I would argue its because he is a creative talent that hes in the position he is today, its just a different definition of creative.In the past Dixon pretty much saw off Dale Martin, who were arguably the number one promotion in the uk at the time, by agressively taking over their venues and putting on some fanastic shows. Shows that still appealed to all ages featuring feuds that he could easily keep interesting and make last a year or more without the use of laughable skits and lengthy promos.As the wrestling landscape has changed so has he and now he actively promotes stand alone shows still featuring pretty much all the best workers in the UK at some point of another.All that says to me is that he's a hard-working promoter, not that he's creatively adept. I don't see how you can call taking over venues "creative", it's just aggressive business. And if he's been putting on the same type of show for God knows how many years, he's basically got himself a winning formula - but that doesn't make him creative, just smart for sticking with a proven plan.Hes probably now getting close to retirement so why should he be concerned with advancing British wrestling?What did I just say? I don't care about the perspective that "he's making money" or "it's not in his interest to advance British wrestling". I told you, that's the only way that matters to me, and that is the perspective I was speaking from and am discussing at present. His abilities as a promoter are not in dispute, his creative abilities and contribution to British wrestling as a whole are.Even talent-wise his current roster is head and shoulders above every other company in the uk and there are very few decent workers in the uk who dont work for him at least semi-regularly.As far as I'm concerned, that's utter tosh of the highest order. I've seen the All Star mainstays, and I think they're very average. They're by no means awful, they're actually quite decent, but there's no way they're "head and shoulders above" the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CartmanLand Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 is bryan danielson supposed to be appearing in stevenage?. i might go considering its a 5 min train ride from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Big Benny HG Posted June 28, 2008 Paid Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 There are exceptions - I don't believe guys like Dave Moralez, El Ligero and Martin Kirby have done All Star, and they're great.Ligero and Kirby have both worked AllStar on a handful of occasions, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 is bryan danielson supposed to be appearing in stevenage?. i might go considering its a 5 min train ride from me.No, he is in America wrestling for ROH tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 is bryan danielson supposed to be appearing in stevenage?. i might go considering its a 5 min train ride from me.Why not go anyway if it's only 5 mins??Using Mojic (I don't take credit) tonight's show only had about 25 paying fans, but about 275 were in attendance.Results:Mikey Whiplash beat Frankie SloaneEddie Edwards beat The Zulu PrinceJames Mason beat Karl KrammerBroady Steele beat The "Smackdown" WarriorJonny Storm & Kid Cool beat Marty Scurll & Bad NewsNot the best ASW show I've seen this year, far from it, but also not the worst I've ever seen. No brilliant matches, but nothing terrible. Tag main event was probably the best match.275 isn't massive for ASW, but the capacity was probably only about 500, so not too bad, and still besides WWE, TNA and Noah I've only been to about 3 non ASW shows this year that had a bigger crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$tew Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Results from Stevenage...1. Mikey Whiplash pinned Frankie Sloan.2. Eddie Edwards pinned Zulu Prince via rope assisted rollup.3. James Mason pinned Karl Krammer.4. Broady Steele pinned Smackdown Warrior5. Jonny Storm & Kid Cool beat Marty Scurll & 'Bad News Brown' with simultaneous pins.Referee: Chris RobertsDecent enough show, though not at the level of some of All Star's earlier stuff this year. Main event was really good, thanks in no small part to Marty Scurll being in fantastic form with his heelish antics. Opener was also really good. It occurred to me that Whiplash, if he got rid of the black half of his hair, would have a pretty awesome Ric Flair 'do, which would go well with his 'Chippendale' gimmick. Edwards/Zulu was simultaneously Zulu's best match ever and Edwards' worst match ever. Mason vs Krammer was fine for the most part, but there was one bit that was just ungodly bad. Krammer had Mason in a double trapezius hold, and rather than actually, y'know, SELL the hold - Mason just sat there on his arse, clapping his hands and saying "Come on, Stevenage" like a gurning fool. For about two minutes, Mason just sat there, trying to encourage fans to cheer - conveniently forgetting that they're not going to feel any inclination to get behind him if he never actually looks like he's in trouble. THINK IT THROUGH, MASON! Krammer was good - I just wish James hadn't ruined the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Big Benny HG Posted June 29, 2008 Paid Members Share Posted June 29, 2008 Is the "Zulu Prince" the same guy that wrestled as the "Zulu Warrior" in about 93-95?Sorry if he isn't. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rob Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 No, he used to wrestle as Osmond from LDN. He hasn't been wrestling for very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rob Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Results from Skegness Butlins show this afternoon...Dark Angel Ashe beat Jonny StormMarty Scrull beat Mikey WhiplashRick Masters and Kid Cool beat Frankie Sloan and Bad NewsEdit: Was of course Frankie Sloane, not Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 How was Scrull/Whiplash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 I'll answer on behalf of Big Rob without his permission!"I don't know I wasn't there, but I'd imagine it was a cracker"DA Ashe vs. Jonny Storm was no doubt very good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizzKid Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Jesus Christ.I'm not burying them for possibly giving away free tickets. I explicitly said 'that's fair enough, because he makes money on the tat'. It's smart.I'm advancing a theory based on the information available - it certainly explains how he gets large crowds when everyone else struggles. Especially as people have been saying that he doesn't usually bother to poster. He used to bother to poster in Bristol back in the Colston days. He didn't draw well there, either, from what I recall.My point is the whole 'Dixon can draw fans because he's great and nobody else can because they're shit' seems to be incorrect - without the freebies, he draws the same as everyone else. The best at getting people through the door is almost certainly Bagga. I'll eat my own head if it ever comes out that Bagga's crowds are full of comps.That's one way of putting it. As you did in the Colston Hall days, you just criticise All Star shows because they're not your cup of tea and downsize Mr Dixon's acheivements with bad guess work rather than information. I like the fact that you try to suggest Dixon gives hundreds of tickets away yet only drew 175 at Cardiff, then added that you spoke to a guy who thought it was cancelled as to stop people questioning that. I've helped with posters in Bristol and never gave any tickets away - not saying it doesn't happen like it does with circuses and alike but think you'll find he'll limit the give aways what with business genuinely being good at the moment in most areas. How can Bagga be the best at getting punters through the door when he only runs a few shows a month and Dixon draws crowds that generally vary from 400 plus to 1000 plus? That's based on this fictional idea that Dixon gives away hundreds of tickets which isn't correct. For whatever reason you hate the idea that Dixon is doing well and drawing big paying crowds to big venues around the country and running lots of venues a couple of times each year. He's doing all of those things which is impressive in this climate and producing some great shows. He's putting on great shows and bringing crowds back time after time. As All Star expands ever more trying venues that haven't had wrestling for years and some of those might not draw well but the majority do. I really cannot relate to someone who would rather see a bunch of green youngsters starting out rather than crisp polished workers like of Collyer, Dynamite, Mason, Collins, Zebra, Whiplash, Allmark, Powers, Cool, Brookside, Dragon, Dupree, Oullett, etc, etc. That's up to you - it's all about choice, hence people choose to not go back to promotions that don't appeal to them or don't deliver what they want to see. I admire your loyalty to promoters who let you play 'Mr MC' for the night but it's still laughable at how you criticise these hard working tremendous wrestlers just because they appear for All Star. I recall in the Bristol days you said that Nigel McGuiness was the sh*ts. I imagine that has changed now that you have been given permission by Meltzer and alike to rate him. Re Oric - he's not ran in Cardiff for years and years - last person who ran at St David's Hall was Conway, with Horace Hogan and Dave Penzer. I don't know how that drew, but it had Horace Hogan and an emcee as the draws, so my guess is 'shittily'. The only other shows in Cardiff have been WWE (two sellouts in the CIA last tour), Celtic Wrestling (last few shows have done 250 or so in Canton Community Hall, which is about what it holds) and PPW (hundred or so in Cathays). Oh, and the old NWA-UK Wales which filled Cathays at least onceJust to add to the above, the main headliner of the tour that Scott Conway promoted was Dave Finlay (who was against Tony St Clair in the main event at Cardiff) along with Horace Hogan. It was a great tour with Brookside, Mason, Eckstein and McDonald also on it but think it only drew just over 100 in Cardiff (Phil Jones will hopefully also recall this), so maybe it's the venue that isn't that supportive of wrestling after experiences with Shane Stevens in the past. It's funny that you dismiss that tour and forget that Finlay was the headliner. It was Finlay's first tour of the UK circuit since 1995 and a chance for him to wrestle after his WCW run, yet the likes of Fin Martin (and Moj apparently) weren't even interested in it at the time. I'm guessing that Fin Martin reports on Finlay, and probably puts him in his wrestling top 50, these days when he's playing for comedy rather than at a time when he was allowed to work.Firstly - there's no way they made a profit in Cardiff. Secondly - money is not the be all and end all, despite what right wingers would have you believe. I hadn't been to an All Star show since they got kicked out of their Bristol venue (due to low crowds), people told me they'd gotten better and they seemed to have stopped with the false advertising so I took a chance - bag of shit.The Colston Hall stopped wrestling not due to low crowds. They were always 300 plus, usually 400 plus which would be considered a result by any promotion in the UK, it was more to with what new management considered wrestling. Thankfully All Star moved onto Ashton Gate and drew fine and then the Hippodrome and drew 900 and more recently 1000 plus for shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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