Paid Members Fatty Facesitter Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 Think this deserves its own thread because there's a lot to debate here. Personally I think Bret's off the mark, but see what you reckon.  - Bret was recently interviewed and shared his candid feelings on Triple H. Here is what he had to say... "I have a certain amount of respect for Triple H. I remember when he first came in, I remember commenting on stuff that he did. Because I'd usually give wrestlers my thoughts and try to help them on stuff... Triple H has always been a good wrestler. But great? What is he now, a 1,000 time world champion? How great really is he?  "I look at [CM] Punk... I can look at certain wrestlers and I go, this guy is an innovator. Like a Rey Mysterio, who's done stuff that no one has ever thought of before. Punk has done stuff -- really unique moves and you go, 'gee I've never seen anything like that before.' They innovate all the time, and they create new sequences and moves and things.  "Then you look at someone like Triple H. When I look at him -- he's always had a good look as far as his body went -- he always had a pretty muscular physique. But you look at someone like Hunter and you wonder, what has he really done. One move that he ever created that nobody ever saw before or some highspots or an idea for a match... He's mostly a guy that just showed up and they made him. He's always been a decent wrestler -- I would consider him a good wrestler and pretty talented. But great? I don't know, I don't think so.  "What has he ever done that's great? He's never had a great match, I don't think ever. Whenever I look at Triple H's matches, including the last one he had with Undertaker -- and I don't really mean it as a knock -- but I told myself before I watched it because I'm trying to like Paul now these days, that I want to see him do something to make me think he's got greatness in him.  "Before Triple H wrestled Undertaker last year, I remember watching it and going, 'I can picture the whole match in my head, I can tell you exactly what this match is going to be like and how it's going to go. And I remember watching it and it went exactly how I predicted it... I thought it was mediocre at best, maybe a 4 out of 10, or 3 out of 10.  "I think Paul is a little overrated... overrated for being great. I can sit here and tell you that there was one match that he ever had with anybody that I thought was great. It's kind of a shame, he should have a great match somewhere"  Vid--  Bit harsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members martyngnr Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think to call CM Punk an innovator is a massive stretch for a kick off. Â To say HHH has never had a great match is outrageous too. I love Bret but what a horrible, bitter man he has become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Bret Hart is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Up Chuck Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 Punk does stuff nobody's done before? Bret doesn't watch a lot of wrestling, does he? Â Anyway, he's got his blinkers on about the Undertaker matches. A seasoned veteran can predict a match between two part-time guys, one of whom was having a lot of injuries covered for. Great. I'd expect nothing less from anyone who's wrestled for a few years, especially if they'd been anywhere near the top of a major promotion. I'd also expect him to recognise that him being able to predict a match doesn't make it bad, precisely for the reasons he should be able to predict it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffingtonClyro Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Has Bret never seen Hunter vs Cactus at the Rumble 2000? Come on Bret, it's been sixteen years, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukfan11 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I thought the 2nd Triple H v Undertaker was great as I'm sure many also do, and I did enjoy him vs Lesnar. I do think it's just Bret being bitter and jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum1993 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 In what way was Bret an innovator anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffingtonClyro Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 In what way was Bret an innovator anyway? Â Running into the turnbuckle front first was pretty innovative. Or maybe I'm talking shite considering nobody but him does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 To call CM Punk an "innovator" is just wrong, considering every one of his moves is taken from someone else and his gimmick isn't very original. Â I get where Bret Hart is coming from in his opinion of Triple H as a worker (there's a common belief that Triple H can have great matches with great workers but can't have great matches with not so great workers), but to say he hasn't had great matches isn't right at all. He comes across as needlessly insecure as fuck there. Every criticism of what he said could be said for the Undertaker as well. Its not like Undertaker was a stellar worker for 20 years. Â In what way was Bret an innovator anyway? Obviously didn't see Bret Hart in his prime then. The WrestleMania 17 match between Rock and Austin was 20 minutes of stuff Bret Hart had done with Austin years before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 Even Bret's staunchest supporters or Triple H's greatest detractors would struggle to get on board with those comments. Not sure there's much debate to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 As usual with a Bret Hart comment, I find myself agreeing to a point but he jsut goes too far with it. He must just get over excited when invited to talk by an arse licking host and just goes way further than he intended to, or maybe he did intend to? Â It also depends what you consider great, Bret may consider only 3 or 4 matches to be great and others to be very good, in which case id agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 I kind of agree with him...sort of. In terms of straight in-ring gimmick-free matches I don't think Triple H can be classed as one of the greatest ever. He's often had good matches but I don't think he's had any spectacular matches that match the level of Bret Hart and HBK's work. Â However no one can deny he's a great promo, knows how to develop and sustain a fully fleshed out character and to get angles and storylines over in a way that makes people keep watching and buy PPVs which is all that really matters anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 "Before Triple H wrestled Undertaker last year, I remember watching it and going, 'I can picture the whole match in my head, I can tell you exactly what this match is going to be like and how it's going to go..." Â This is coming from mr 5 moves of doom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Up Chuck Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 I can see how someone might be fooled into thinking Punk was innovative, because he does have a bit of a talent for putting matches together in an interesting way, but Bret Hart shouldn't be falling for that as being innovative. Then again, he has had a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted February 1, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted February 1, 2013 This is coming from mr 5 moves of doom? Fuck me, you were actually in the ring for wrestling matches. You were in the business. How can you make a post like that? You can have the same moves every match, but that isn't what makes a match different. Predictability doesn't mean doing the same moves. Having a routine is essential to the storytelling process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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