Official ROH Discussion Thread

[stylesclash05]

Just finished watchin Vendetta. Ace Steel/Delirious v McGuiness/Collyer was a pretty bland opener. It was kept short at about 9 minutes thankfully. *Sal Rinauro v Jimmy Jacobs was a passable match. Rinauro bores me stupid. *1/2Bj Whitmer v Castagnoli was a decent big man match. It wasn't excellent but it was bad to watch for the 8 minutes it went for. **Daniels v Joe was an excellent 25 minute match. Not quite up there with their TNA efforts but still an excellent wrestling match. ***1/2Pearce v Andrews was a squash. Not worth a place on any ROH card. 1/2 *Roderick Strong V Bryan Danielson was an awesome wrestling match. This is everything good about ROH.....the keyword is wrestling. For 50 minutes these two went at it and it must rank up there with 2005's matches of the year. ****1/2The Embassy v Gen Next 8 man war was a very entertaining match. Even the introudction of Abyss didn't drag the match down. Daizee Haze's heel turn was shocking. ****

[edgecrusher]

I'm sure they haven't had the first title match at this point. If I remember the ROH message board correctly (And sometimes I wish I couldn't) the general opinion was that the Briscoes would take the Tag belts, if not in the first meeting then definately in the second.The reason Gen Next have tended to not many singles wins of late is that they get plenty of shots at the other titles as two of the top guys in the promotion. The Briscoes beating them in singles contests Should be a big deal, but the matches were so appalling (And I entirely blame the Briscoes for this) that the fans couldn't even get behind the upsets.

I don't remember the fans being silent after the matches. They seemed really quite into them. If the matches were that bad then why are the Briscoes still over? The ROH faithful can be guaranteed to do one thing at least, and that's turn on someone they legitimately think sucks. You said yourself the Jay/Aries match was pretty good. I can't remember much of the Mark/Wodewick match but that's as much Wodders fault as Marks. I just find him very forgettable unless he's bouncing off Aries in the championship matches. He cleans house like almost no-one else, I think that's the one thing that's brilliant about him. Oh, and he does do exceedingly good backbreakers. As it is they STILL seem to think the Briscoes are going to get the belts, and that's after... what, three, four successive defeats? Four including the scramble tags.

[Guest kingofthe3way]

So this time tomorrow I am off out the door to travel to America to see some indy wrestling. First stop is ROH in Chicago (stop two is LA for PWG's BOLA). After watching the Colt v Am Drag match last night i am really excited to see their 2/3 falls match. The rest of the card looks pretty good as well. I'll post my thoughts in a few days (if I have any).

[edgecrusher]

Colt and Am Drag are having a 2/3 falls match?Ugh. Not sure I'll like that much. I'd love to see a McGuinness/Dragon 2/3 falls, though. Or a Joe/Dragon 2/3 falls match.

Edited August 24, 2006 by edgecrusher

[alexander]

Nigel/Dragon two out of three falls is tomorrow night. If Dragon retains he has Colt in another two out of three falls match the night after. Crazy booking.I think the fans have given up on the Briscoes as tag champs now that they've been sidelined into the expanding Homicide/Joe/Whitmer Vs Cornette's army feud. Most people now expect the Kings Of Wrestling to take the straps.

[gadge]

The Briscoes vs Gen Next singles matches were the night before their first title shot, like a preview, except neither singles matches were very good. I thought Mark vs Roderick started okay in the sense of feeling out each other ahead of their first title match, but then Mark suddenly busted out this ridiculous springboard that missed by miles and it fell aprt from there, with the only thing I liked after that being the cutthroat driver finish.Jay has always been the better singles wrestler, and I'm a big fan of his title shots against Samoa Joe at Tradition Continues and in a steel cage at At Our Best, two of the best ROH title matches from the pre-Reborn stage of ROH history. Add in Aries being so damned good and I hoped for much more out of him vs Jay than I did out of Roderick vs Mark. Shame I didn't remember anything about the match until I read Lantern's review, that's how much of an impression it made. I liked the main event, it kind of reminded me of a rare few WWE tag matches from recent years in that when they started hitting the recognised finishers near the end, the crowd was molten. That and the "THAT's how I roll!!" comedy made it worthwhile for me, though the show overall was a let down, which is why I havent really bothered with a proper review (i think i did thoughts on some of the opening matches before I reviewed WOC night 2). I'm in the middle of watching Ring of Homicide at the momemt, which looks the MUCH better show.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

Finished the Milestone Series with ROH: The 100th ShowChristopher Daniels v Claudio CastagnoliThis was really bland and boring, and to be honest looked more like ballet than wrestling. Yes, it has well executed offence, good psychology and all the rest of it, but everything is hit with no passion or intensity, and the spots, instead of looking like they fit into the match, look choreographed. I'm sure they're not, but both guys look like they're going through the motions what with the static facials and limited character work. Some decent offence in there, and what they actually do would be rather good, if it was done by two characters who, well, have some character. *Jimmy Jacobas v Jimmy Yang v Jimmy Rave v DeliriousAnother one of these oh-so-annoying 4-Ways. Luckily for this one, it isn't a total waste, as it features three good characters, and a at least serviceable wrestler in Yang. That isn't to say it's any good though, as despite some good character work, the in ring action is pretty bland and poor. There doesn't seem to be any reason for the match, and therefore there's no reason to care. However, it is good at times, and Jacobs once again excels in his role. Finish was smart too. *1/2Austin Aries/Roderock Strong v Homicide/Ricky ReyesTalk about disappointing. What's up with Homicide in this match? He puts no effort in at all, messes up a couple of things, and is generally a shadow of his usual self. Unfortunately for him, his backup is Reyes, who while a decent worker, isn't capable of carrying his partner and making the match something good. I enjoy Aries here, Strong is so so. They try to tell a story around the Rotts brawling, but problem is the brawling in the match is pedestrian and lacking in much cohesion or intensity. It's OK at times, and Aries does his best, but not the match I was hoping for. *1/4Bryan Danielson v Colt CabanaThis was pretty good. The interaction between Dragon and the fans made it what it was, but I was happy to see the end of serious Colt, and the ending was shocking and worked well. The action before that was pretty average, but purposely so, as they had to make the fans believe they were building to something longer. It didn't help that the fans didn't react to anything as they were so caught up in the duelling chants. More an angle than a match, but it was well executed. **Derick Dempsey v Pelle PrimeuaPointless students match. They looked really green, and Primeua is surely never going to get over with that look, because it's horrible. 1/2*Bryan Danielson v DeliriousThe setup for this match was brilliant, and the match itself wasn't half bad. Dragon was decent taking Delirious apart, and bloody good at some parts, but the real fun came when Delirious started to look like he might have a chance. Strangely, the CZW fans added to this, although sometimes it seemed the match was less important than what was going on outside. Credit to Delirious for being such a good sympathy face, and the blood certainly did the match favours. A lot of fun. **3/4Briscoe Brothers v Matt Sydal/AJ StylesMan, I should have hated with. The Briscoes annoy me so much, with their mountain of high end offence, and spot based matches. I used to love Sydal as a great sympathy face with cool offence, but he had been grating on me as a goofy face recently, probably due to lack of quality heel opponents. Styles is hit and miss. But somehow this is one of the best tags of the series. Had a really goos structure, some nice tag psychology by the Briscoes, and their offence was in fact excellent- high impact stuff but nothing over the top. The way they built to the hot tag was great, and when it came it got a great pop, leading into a great finishing sequence with, yes, some cool moves. This is no classic, but it's suprising how good it is, and it's probably the best Briscoes match ever, and Sydal's second best outing. ***1/4Super Dragon/Necro Butcher/Chris Hero v Samoa Joe/Adam Pearce/BJ WhitmerI don't love this as much as some, but this was a really good, hate filled brawl. Everyone on ythe CZW side was awesome, Necro was great at being crazy, Hero was a good chicken shit heel with awesome facials, Dragon was also a great heel, just a shame the camera didn't catch him Monkey Flipping a fan and attacking Xias. Oh well. The crowd was molten hot, and the brawling was intense as hell. Whitmer and Pearce, unfortunately, do nothing for me. Whitmer was good for a few big bumps, Pearce was good for a blade, but I don't even know why they're in this feud in the first place. Anything with Joe in was gold, with the other two, it wasn't so good. A slight complaint is that the brawling got a little repetetive. But it's actually a ton of fun, and if you've been into the feud, which I haven't that much, then you'll love it a lot more. Really good stuff. ***1/4On the whole an enjoyable show. The last two matches were really good, the Dragon stuff was fun, and it was only let down by a poor beginning, which was at least bearable.OK, my ten best matches of the milestone series...Anarchistxx's 10 Best Matches Of The Milestone Series1. Jimmy Rave, Alex Shelley, & Masato Yoshino vs. Dragon Kid, Genki Horiguchi, & Ryo Saito ***1/2 (ROH Better Than Our Best)2. Bryan Danielson vs. Alex Shelley ***1/2 (ROH Arena Warfare)3. AJ Styles & Matt Sydal vs. Jay & Mark Briscoe ***1/4 (ROH 100th Show)4. Samoa Joe, Adam Pearce, & BJ Whitmer vs. Chris Hero, Necro Butcher, & Super Dragon ***1/4 (ROH 100th Show)5. Austin Aries & Roderick Strong vs. CIMA & Naruki Doi ***1/4 (ROH Better Than Our Best)6. Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, & Jack Evans vs. CIMA & Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino ***1/4 (ROH Dragon Gate Challenge)7. Dragon Kid, Genki Horiguchi, & Ryo Saito vs. CIMA, Naruki Doi, & Masato Yoshino *** (ROH Supercard Of Honor) 8. A.J. Styles & Matt Sydal vs. Dragon Kid & Genki Horiguchi *** (ROH Dragon Gate Challenge)9. Austin Aries v Matt Sydal **3/4 (ROH Arena Warfare)10. AJ Styles & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries & Jack Evans **3/4 (ROH Supercard Of Honor)

[edgecrusher]

Nigel/Dragon two out of three falls is tomorrow night. If Dragon retains he has Colt in another two out of three falls match the night after. Crazy booking.I think the fans have given up on the Briscoes as tag champs now that they've been sidelined into the expanding Homicide/Joe/Whitmer Vs Cornette's army feud. Most people now expect the Kings Of Wrestling to take the straps.

Now that's something I don't want to see. Not that they wouldn't make good, heated champs because of the allegedly over CZW war, but I found them spectacularly uninspiring on their one match with Pearce/Whitmer. Some of their moves are a million times more contrived than the Briscoes' double teams/offence, and I don't really get much joy out of Chris Hero except watching him get beaten up. He does have a nice cravatte, though. I'd think its one team or the other. The only options are, now that The Embassy's best incarnation is dead:BriscoesKings of WrestlingIrish AirborneThe Briscoes have lost repeatedly and according to you are up against Homicide now, Irish Airborne haven't won the crowd over enough to have a chance yet.That really does just leave the Kings. UNLESS Gabe's planning to have GenNEXT keep the straps for the entire year and build to a Briscoes victory in the new year. That, or he'll get ahold of Maru/KENTA and give them a reign for a month or two before dropping the titles back to someone else, but I can't see him doing that. From what I've seen of ROH that doesn't seem like his way of thinking.For some reason I'm feeling a World Title change more than a tag title change. I guess it's the depth of competition in the World Division is somewhat better. I can see Nigel, Joe, Rave, and definitely Homicide as World Title holders. Guess we'll have to see.EDIT: The double 2/3 falls is silly. What's the logic behind it? Surely it'd be far more sensible to have the second one a few shows down the line? Gimmick overkill never helped anyone. Edited August 24, 2006 by edgecrusher

[JLM]

This show has an ROH title match and a reasonable amount of ROH involvement, so I hope nobody minds if I stick this here. It's in spoiler tags in case a DG fan avoiding spoilers wanders into this thread.

Click to Show/Hide

Infinity 46 - Dragon Gate USA Presents Wrestle JAMCIMA, Jack Evans and Roderick Strong vs B-Boy, Masato Yoshino and Naruki DoiI'm starting to put my finger on exactly why I don't like Roderick Strong and haven't enjoyed any of his DG performances. The main reason is that he doesn't seem to understand the workings of a Dragon Gate six man at all. Every time he's in the ring it seems like he's been hot tagged, hitting an array of huge moves at high impact and seemingly being impervious to pain. It gets quite annoying. He also has no charisma. He does have a wonderfully satisfying chop on him though. Evans is garnering a respectable level of DG fan support these days, and he seems to have found a niche. He's good at taking a man-sized beating and getting a good sympathetic babyface reaction from the Japanese crowd in the process. He even has his own fan support call, "JACK! JACK! JACK!. Not creative I'll grant you, but it's more than Sydal, Turboman, King Shisa and others have managed. As for B-Boy, I haven't seen him in (literally) years. Last time was in some CZW tournament or other. He's fun here as an honorary Muscle Outlaw, bringing the heelish stomping and a mean persona. His big moves still appear to be disturbingly head droppy, though at least the worst of it is reserved for Jack.Anyway, the match is a passable back and forth affair (perhaps a bit heavy on the indy spotfest antics) that's nothing to write home about. Credit to B-Boy for making the effort to be a dick and inject some personality into the proceedings, as opposed to Roderick who just seems to be a backbreaking and face kicking robot. Akira Tozawa vs Jack Evans vs Genki HoriguchiThis is a bizarre match. Genki, Evans and Tozawa (who does almost no comedy here) in a three way, ladder-based, eight minute spotfest of pain. The ladder assisted surfboard stretch on Jack is particularly evil. Some big bumps, a chance for Tozawa to show off some of his non-comedy repertoire and Genki attempting to glue the whole thing together. Jack wins with a twisting..thing. I guess it would be called as a leg drop. Fun in a what the hell is going on kind of way. ROH Tag team championship: Masato Yoshino & Naruki Doi vs. Austin Aries & Roderick Strong©I like Austin Aries. Easily the best non-DG guy on the show for me. He has a nice variety of offense (particularly digging that suicide dive between the middle and bottom ropes), and also brings some charisma and the ability to make it look like the match is really taking it's toll on him as it goes on. Because of this, Strong also works in this match because he is actually getting hot tags off Aries, who looks like he desperately needs them. Best match on the card up to this point, good showings from all four and an entertaining 20 minute tag team match that doesn't fall victim to the DG editing hatchet man. After this we get some brief clips of Aries and Strong defeating Ryo and Genki in another defense of their tag titles, in what I'm guessing was another good match. Roderick Strong vs. Masaaki MochizukiAs you may have guessed, I'm 100% behind Mochi going into this one. That said, Strong is better here than he has been in his DG tag matches. Mochi wrestles this in the heavyweight style he's been favouring these days, and this seems to suit Strong better than the other matches. It also gives him an excuse to bust out the aforementioned chop a bunch of times. A satisfying clubber-fest that goes about as long as it needs to before Mochi hits the good old Saikyou high kick for the win. Austin Aries vs Susumu YokosukaAs much as I backed Mochi in the previous match, multiply that by 500 to get how badly I needed Susumu to win this. Susumu doesn't tend to have bad matches, and Aries seems good from what I've seen, so as you'd expect this was a good effort. Susumu works the legs as he enjoys doing, and they build to a big near-fall closing stretch. Aries hits his 450 and for a horrible moment I think Susumu is going to lose. Thankfully he kicks out at two, Aries kicks out of a lot of stuff (Aikata and Mugen) before ultimately falling to a JUMBO NO KACHI! lariat. Good stuff. Oh, special mention for Aries Knee drop > Rewind > Slow motion replay of the knee drop attempt spot. Heheh. To explain to the ROH faithful, "thankfully" etc. isn't because I have a problem with any of the ROH guys beating my beloved DG wrestlers, but because the DG bookers have a history of shafting Susumu at every oppurtunity, and as he's only just attained DG main eventer status this summer and is the promotion's champion, I was praying for them not to job him out here as it would achieve nothing. Handicap Match: MAGU-yan, The Turboman & Turbo-yan vs. Gamma & Naoki TanisakiThe Muscle OUTLAWz had been mean to Turboman earlier in the WrestleJAM tour. During one of their beatdowns, a mysterious (It's Don Fujii) Tubby Turboman lookalike in yellow known as Turbo-yan had come to his rescue. He too was overwhelmed by the MOz until another mysterious (Magnum TOKYO) Turbo variant turned up clad in pink. The result is this mildly amusing comedy handicap match. It wasn't bad or anything, but given the range of matches on the WrestleJAM tour that they had to choose from, this probably didn't have a place on the highlights show. To put it in perspective:Ryo Saito vs. Austin AriesJimmy Rave vs. BxB HulkRyo Saito, Genki Horiguchi, Dragon Kid vs. Jack Evans, Roderick Strong, Austin AriesSusumu Yokosuka vs. Matt SydalMagnitude Kishiwada vs. King ShisaWere all left out. I'd have taken any of them over this personally. Still, it was a laugh I guess. 7. $10,000 Jam Cup, 4 Way Tag Match: Roderick Strong & Matt Sydal vs. CIMA & Don Fujii vs. Ryo Saito & Dragon Kid vs. Masato Yoshino & Jimmy RavePoor Jimmy can't even escape the toilet roll barrage in Japan. CIMA also makes sure of him not being able to escape "Fuck you Jimmy!" chants either. The big toilet roll riot that starts the match is great fun and it gets the crowd all wound up to a level they maintain for most of the match. As for the match itself, it's a frantic sprint with too much madness going on to even try and call. A good mix of comedy and fast paced action, it's undeniably entertaining stuff. Kid gets murderised with a second rope Schwein, Rave gets taken out with a fairly kewl boston crab/standing SSP combination and then Matt Sydal pins CIMA(!!!) with the Shooting Sydal Press. What the piss? Couldn't he have pinned Fujii if he had to win? Bah. I think Lantern's "pretty okayish" sums up this show, and I'd definitely agree that Aries is the standout gaijin too. It's a show full of watchable to good matches, but there's nothing standout or must-see in my opinion. Still worth a watch though.

[WU LYF 4 LYF]

but I found them spectacularly uninspiring on their one match with Pearce/Whitmer.

They were against Pearce and Whitmer though, two of the least charismatic wrestlers I've ever seen.I mean, why were these two even in the ROH/CZW feud? Pearce had been in ROH 5 minutes, was a heel when the feud started, and if anything, was against ROH. Yet he's suddenly in the feud. Whitmer has never been over, has never showed any real loyalty to ROH, and was similarly a heel when the feud started.It was a good feud, but I got the feeling it would have been a lot better with two other wrestlers as the focal points.I think the idea with the KOW is that they're a bit boring- it gets them good heat. Granted, Hero was working that style as a face, but that's why he sucked as a face and is actually a decent heel.

[alexander]

The feud got Whitmer and Pearce over and gave them some identity. It was the rub they needed to move up a level in ROH. And Pearce is fucking awesome.

[King of my World]

I've just finished watching 'Ring of Homicide' and thought it was a good, but not great show. Dragon vs Delirious was a nice little match, Delirious is a great underdog face. Gen Next vs Briscoes was a really good tag title match I thought, the finish iwas great because it opened the door for a rematch. Main event is one of my favourite RoH match of the year in Homicide vs Necro. Much better than Homicide vs Cabana. Homicide was insanely over with the crowd and he and Necro had a fantastic fight.Going to watch Destiny in a bit.

Edited August 25, 2006 by King of my World

[aaron]

Pearce is fucking awesome

I need to get a couple of ROH DVDs. . . there's one with KENTA vs Samoa Joe vs Bryan Danielson and another with KENTA vs Davey Richards. . . whats the recommended source guys? The originals from the obvious sources cost far too much money. . . PM me if need be :DCheers!

[GIB]

Some great reviews, LL and Edgecrusher.I was browsing through a few websites and came across ROH's First Anniversary Show, I haven't seen it before but I was thinking of picking it up. Was it any good?

[RCD]

Avoid Kenta Vs Danielson Vs Joe at all costs.Over hyped to the max. Once Joe knocks Kenta out half of Kenta's offense looses that 'umph' it normally has & you can clearly see Joe/Danielson having to tell him what to do untill near the end.