Scottish Referendum on Independence

[FUM]

Searched for a thread there and couldn't find one on what is a pretty fucking massive issue. Latest poll results are 51% voting yes to the break-up of the UK, and 49% voting no. David Cameron has apparently flew to visit the Queen for crisis talks.

 

What's the boards general thoughts on this?

 

I'm a yes voter as the chance to not be outnumbered in an election is far too much to give up for me. That's my main reason among many others. How are my fellow Scottish wrestling fans voting?

[FLips]

Good riddance.

[SpursRiot2012]

Overall, I think they should go for it. I reckon they'll do alright. As long as the rest of us get a good deal in the divorce, I'm happy.

[Vamp]

I'm English, it's not really my place to have a say.

 

I do somewhat think that it's 2014 and we probably need to finally start moving on a bit from the whole 'nations' fad.

 

But yeah, I mostly just want Scotland to hurry up and decide (I don't really mean this, take your time, there's probably not a good returns policy on the decision you eventually make). And for England to stop sending the ambassadors it's sending. There must be someone better to represent Britain? Send Tom Baker or Roger Moore or something.

[LaGoosh]

I think it'll be a bit of a disaster and cost both the English and Scottish tax payers millions (or billions) to sort out at a time when financially the country is still in a mess and the public sector is already under a massive strain. I fail to see how independence is going to make life better for Scottish people in any possible way. It's the type of idea that probably sounds good when your pissed at the pub but in reality is completely ridiculous and pointless. 

[PunkStep]

If the Scottish were to gain independence, who on earth are we going to support during Wimbledon?!

[Pier Six Brawler]

Andy Murray, who lives in England and has done for some time.

[Devon Malcolm]

How will this affect Irn Bru prices?

[Reznor]

If the Scottish were to gain independence, who on earth are we going to support during Wimbledon?!

Whoever's playing Andy Murray.

 

I'm voting YES. Was pretty apathetic until the last 2 or 3 months, and thought it was just going top be a NO formality, in the region of 60/40 or more. But in contrast to the negative campaign of scare tactics from NO, the Yes campaign has been engaging, refreshingly positive, and they've sold many people on it, nationalists and non-nationalists alike.

 

No more tories, no more nukes, no more association with British foreign policy, no risk of any eventual NHS privatisation, and a chance for all decisions to be made for the wishes of, and in the best interests of the people living in Scotland, with the money directed in the right places. it would finally give us sweaties and everyone else up here a real voice for a change.

 

I obviously don't buy that it's going to be as rosy as Salmond's utopian vision, but there's no way Scotland couldn't be successful like so many other small nations are. We have the resources, the people, the skills, the infrastructure, and the industry/trade to sustain ourselves. And whilst I expect the first few years could be pretty tough as it all comes together, i'm sure that some temporary tax hikes would be a small price to pay in the eyes of most folk who want self-determination for future generations. Everyone will be fine, north and south of the border.

 

I still feel that NO will edge it though, mainly due to the older demographic who generally tend to be against change, are more stubborn, and will always vote for what Labour wants them to, because they still think they're the same party they were 30 years ago. I'm pretty certain that a wish for independence would have a pretty comfortable majority among the under 50s, so it's always going to be a prominent issue going forward, and it'll only be a matter of time once the ball's rolling. If it's a No, I really can't see this being a once in a lifetime thing like they're warning.

 

Regarding the union, as my 'namesake' puts it on Year Zero, "this is the beginning of the end" (maybe not in the same sense, mind)  

[stumobir]

I fail to see how independence is going to make life better for Scottish people in any possible way. It's the type of idea that probably sounds good when your pissed at the pub but in reality is completely ridiculous and pointless. 

So you think getting the government the country votes for is ridiculous and pointless? In the 2010 General Election the Conservative party came fourth in Scotland, not second, not third but fourth. That means that despite Scotland overwhelmingly rejecting the Tories we still have their policies imposed on us - and it's been the same story for 34 of the last 68 years.

 

In 2010 80% of Scottish MPs voted against the privatisation of the Royal Mail - it was privatised. 

In 2012 89% of Scottish MPs voted against cutting child benefit - child benefit was cut for the people in Scotland.

In 2013 81% of Scottish MPs voted against Public Sector pension changes/cuts - bill was passed causing strikes and further strains on public services in Scotland.

In 2013 91% of Scottish MPs voted against Bedroom Tax - Scottish Parliament has to use it's own budget to compensate those left out of pocket because of this unjust tax.

 

Noone expects to wake up on the 19th September and everything will be rosy and we'll an Nordic oil-rich country. It's a vote for change, a move away from the status quo, a chance to build something new and fair and just.  Almost everyone I speak to is voting yes, and everyone they speak to is voting yes, I know the polls are still showing it neck and neck but it just doesn't feel like that in Scotland, particularly Glasgow and surrounding areas.  The Better Together campaign has only itself to blame, they started this debate with a massive lead and have used nothing but scaremongering and negativity throughout their campaign. It was Westminster's chance to reconnect with people who had become disenchanted with politics and all they did was reinforce why they became disenchanted in the first place "you can't do that" "you won't be able to do this" "we won't let you have that", the Yes campaign have been masterful at highlighting and capitalising on this and that's why they're winning the battle on almost all fronts (obviously not in the London based media or the BBC - turkey's don't vote for Christmas etc).

 

 

[SpursRiot2012]

no more nukes

 

I wouldn't bank on that. At least not for a long time. I'm certain some deal will be made to keep the nukes where they are, maybe some deal related to the currency union that the SNP want and with them wanting to be a part of NATO.

[stumobir]

 

no more nukes

 

I wouldn't bank on that. At least not for a long time. I'm certain some deal will be made to keep the nukes where they are, maybe some deal related to the currency union that the SNP want and with them wanting to be a part of NATO.

 

 

There's no way the SNP could renegade on their stance on nuclear weapons, it would be political party suicide, a large portion of their support is very vocal on their opposition to nuclear weapons not to mention the backing that other groups such has CND and the Green Party have been offering.  Our proposed membership to NATO would have nothing to do with whether we had nuclear weapons or not, the majority of members don't and the next Secretary General of NATO is from Norway, a strong proponent of multilateral disarmament. 

 

With regards to a currency union, the SNP has another hand to play ie. you want us to take our share of the debt, let us keep the currency that the debt's in.

[CleetusVanDamme]

I'm a no. Fuck being on the same side as an Anglophobic bellend like Salmond, and all the other crazed nationalists.

[SpursRiot2012]

 

With regards to a currency union, the SNP has another hand to play ie. you want us to take our share of the debt, let us keep the currency that the debt's in.

 

 

If Salmond genuinely believes that to be an option then you are all fucked.  Although technically the debt would be rUK's, if Scotland welched on taking any of it then alarm bells would be ringing in every financial house the world over and you'd be welcome to your mortgages with 25% interest rates.

 

 

Also, where does this idea come from that, in the event of independence, Scotland gets everything it wants and rUK gets no say? It's going to be a negotiation. The SNP can say whatever they like about nukes, currency union or anything. The jilted lover in this case isn't going to just go, "OK," and let you get on with it.

[unfitfinlay]

 

 

Also, where does this idea come from that, in the event of independence, Scotland gets everything it wants and rUK gets no say? It's going to be a negotiation. The SNP can say whatever they like about nukes, currency union or anything. The jilted lover in this case isn't going to just go, "OK," and let you get on with it.

 

 

It's already been determined that the national debt will belong to rUK.  However, if Scotland refused to take on a share of it (based on headcount or GDP etc) then that would be known by every credit ratings house and would set one hell of a precedent.

 

 

You can't default on debt that isn't yours. If the UK refuses to allow us to benefit from any of our shared assets then why should we assume any of the liabilities?

 

It won't come to that anyway. The insistence that there would be no currency union was a bluff and Salmond called it. It has to be said that the No Campaign has been absolutely woeful. It's just been lies, fear mongering and slogans that don't actually mean anything ("We're Better Together", "We get The Best Of Both Worlds", etc). I'm voting Yes but even I think the Union deserves better.