Jesse Ventura Link...now something else

[Dynamite Duane]

In case you're wondering whether to click the link, it's Ventura on Infowars.com being interviewed by the producer of Loose Change. He's talking about how the world is controlled by a global conspiracy. Though admittedly one which failed to prevent him releasing a book, having a national TV show and getting elected governor of a state.

Personally I would have put it less negatively than that. Ventura and others like him are beaming lights of hope, independents offering choice in a country like our own dominated by a 2 party system.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Dynamite Duane

[Dynamite Duane]

I got up to part foyr before switching off, anybody beat me?

 

When the fuck did this chap turn into such a loony toon?

 

So because he dares question the official government story on such topics as 9/11, he is automatically a loon?

 

Brilliant.

That is the idea, let someone air their views then call them a loony for being different and questioning what we are told. I say sod that go against the grain and stand up and fight for what you believe in. That takes strength of character and I respect people such as Ventura for doing so.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Dynamite Duane

[Astro Hollywood]

I got up to part foyr before switching off, anybody beat me?

 

When the fuck did this chap turn into such a loony toon?

 

So because he dares question the official government story on such topics as 9/11, he is automatically a loon?

 

Brilliant.

That is the idea, let someone air their views then call them a loony for being different and questioning what we are told. I say sod that go against the grain and stand up and fight for what you believe in. That takes strength of character and I respect people such as Ventura for doing so.

 

Yeah! You tell those Sheeple!

 

 

 

 

 

 

ROLLEYES DOT GIF

[Keelan]

I got up to part foyr before switching off, anybody beat me?

 

When the fuck did this chap turn into such a loony toon?

 

So because he dares question the official government story on such topics as 9/11, he is automatically a loon?

 

Brilliant.

That is the idea, let someone air their views then call them a loony for being different and questioning what we are told. I say sod that go against the grain and stand up and fight for what you believe in. That takes strength of character and I respect people such as Ventura for doing so.

 

Agreed.

When did everyone just start going along with the government?

Too busy playing XBox I guess.

[Loki]

a country like our own dominated by a 2 party system.

 

That's right - they've got the Republicans and Democrats, we've got The Tories and Labour and Lib Dems and UKIP and Greens and SNP and Plaid Cwymru and Respect and BNP and Ulster Unionists and Captain Rainbow's Abolish Government party. Exactly alike.

 

Don't you ever get tired of just spouting bollocks Duane? I love you as a fellow Bournemouthian, but seriously you do my head in.

 

As far as the original video... I wonder what it is about the American psyche that tends towards the extremes of political beliefs? As well as the religious right (the "fundies") you've got this conspiracy-theory driven left that seems to have grown up in opposition. They may be minorities but they are incredibly vocal and increasingly influential, both sides of the divide.

 

I think that it's to do with the fact that America is founded on the slightly contradictory principals of revolutionary political freedom and religious conservatism. The two have always been pulling in different directions and in this age of mass media and instant communication it's easier for like-minded hysterics to group together.

 

Of course there's not a giant global conspiracy. I think I've said before that conspiracy theorists never stop to think of the logistical nightmare of running a worldwide secret organisation. You're talking about politicians who struggle to control their parties and balance the budget, let alone secretly plan for alien invasion or whatever the vogue is this week. Gordon Brown has a wonky eye and can't control policy leaks from within his own cabinet - you think he could keep being a lizard or planning the London bombings secret? Give over.

 

The closest things we have to a secret government dedicated to taking over the world are the Catholic Church (tried, succeeded, lost grip on power) and the Scientologists (trying, jury still out) and neither of them has successfully kept their existence quiet.

[Keelan]

a country like our own dominated by a 2 party system.

 

That's right - they've got the Republicans and Democrats, we've got The Tories and Labour and Lib Dems and UKIP and Greens and SNP and Plaid Cwymru and Respect and BNP and Ulster Unionists and Captain Rainbow's Abolish Government party. Exactly alike.

 

Don't you ever get tired of just spouting bollocks Duane? I love you as a fellow Bournemouthian, but seriously you do my head in.

 

As far as the original video... I wonder what it is about the American psyche that tends towards the extremes of political beliefs? As well as the religious right (the "fundies") you've got this conspiracy-theory driven left that seems to have grown up in opposition. They may be minorities but they are incredibly vocal and increasingly influential, both sides of the divide.

 

I think that it's to do with the fact that America is founded on the slightly contradictory principals of revolutionary political freedom and religious conservatism. The two have always been pulling in different directions and in this age of mass media and instant communication it's easier for like-minded hysterics to group together.

 

Of course there's not a giant global conspiracy. I think I've said before that conspiracy theorists never stop to think of the logistical nightmare of running a worldwide secret organisation. You're talking about politicians who struggle to control their parties and balance the budget, let alone secretly plan for alien invasion or whatever the vogue is this week. Gordon Brown has a wonky eye and can't control policy leaks from within his own cabinet - you think he could keep being a lizard or planning the London bombings secret? Give over.

 

The closest things we have to a secret government dedicated to taking over the world are the Catholic Church (tried, succeeded, lost grip on power) and the Scientologists (trying, jury still out) and neither of them has successfully kept their existence quiet.

 

 

No we have the LibLabCon and the BNP that are being used by the mainstream media to tar real issues like immigration and climate change scandals as some kind of crazy racist fringe way of thinking.

 

And what is exactly an extreme political belief? One that supports the constitution? Is Anti-War? Prefers to end a privately operated central bank like the Federal reserve that pretty much caused the economic collapse? Sounds like a pretty good belief to me and one I'd hold if I were American.

 

Conspiracy theory left? Most believers in the New World Order conspiracy are generally apolitical or at least Libertarian. That's why the call it the false left right paradigm.

 

And as I said in the other post it is people like you that simplify the conspiracy and then say its not logical to have a world wide conspiracy. It's very logical when you understand that there are mannnnnny different groups and factors that go in to it. Calling 9/11 and 7/7 an inside job again is far too simplistic. People who really do the research don't think the government just went "hey lets stage these attacks".

 

And the closest thing we have to a world government is, I dunno... the WORLD GOVERNMENT being declared by Herman Van Rompuy the new unelected president of Europe, member of the Jesuit order of Catholicism and who attended the secret Bilderberg group. Gordon Brown who seems to say New World Order every other week. You know "climate blah blah we need world tax, banking crash blah blah we need a world financial system"

 

Globalization is a world government.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Keelan

[King Pitcos]

The great thing about topics like these is that they are instant loon detectors. They're like meltdown threads, but even better because multiple people get their mental out. And wave it all about.

 

Joking, of course. Obviously there really is a global conspiracy to enslave humanity. The smart ones among us are stockpiling tinned food and bottled water and just waiting for the NWO to make their move. The best part will be when David Icke runs in and legdrops Savage. Then someone will accuse Alex Jones of being in on it and he'll sulk in the rafters for about eighteen months. Setting up the big showdown at Operation Blue Beam.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Pityinthecityofsin

[Loki]

No we have the LibLabCon and the BNP that are being used by the mainstream media to tar real issues like immigration and climate change scandals as some kind of crazy racist fringe way of thinking.

 

And what is exactly an extreme political belief? One that supports the constitution? Is Anti-War? Prefers to end a privately operated central bank like the Federal reserve that pretty much caused the economic collapse? Sounds like a pretty good belief to me and one I'd hold if I were American.

 

Conspiracy theory left? Most believers in the New World Order conspiracy are generally apolitical or at least Libertarian. That's why the call it the false left right paradigm.

 

And as I said in the other post it is people like you that simplify the conspiracy and then say its not logical to have a world wide conspiracy. It's very logical when you understand that there are mannnnnny different groups and factors that go in to it. Calling 9/11 and 7/7 an inside job again is far too simplistic. People who really do the research don't think the government just went "hey lets stage these attacks".

 

And the closest thing we have to a world government is, I dunno... the WORLD GOVERNMENT being declared by Herman Van Rompuy the new unelected president of Europe, member of the Jesuit order of Catholicism and who attended the secret Bilderberg group. Gordon Brown who seems to say New World Order every other week. You know "climate blah blah we need world tax, banking crash blah blah we need a world financial system"

 

Globalization is a world government.

 

It's all just vague unsubstantiated guff though, isn't it? You're throwing out neat little phrases as a substitute for any real substance. "People like me" are simply people who've taken the time to read widely with an open mind, make our own judgements on things based on observable fact and logic.

 

I like how conspiracy nuts have leapt on Van Rompuy as their latest "proof" of New World Order. His appointment highlights just how un-joined up the so-called World Government is, when even those countries within the EU are so divided and suspicious of each other that any serious candidate was vetoed to the extent of promoting a virtual nobody to a job which theoretically should be as prestigious as the President of the US. As a result, the EU lacks a really powerful and uniting figure to promote their interests on the global stage and have effectively fucked themselves. A pretty poor bit of realpolitik by the lizards.

 

I've said this many times before, but it bears repeating. For all your claims that "people like me... simplify" things, in fact one of the reasons that some people find the idea of a shadowy global conspiracy so appealing is that it allows them to believe that someone is in charge, that there is some uniting force behind all the craziness you see around you. The reality of the world, that it's a crazy, complicated, illogical place that just messes along as best it can... that's too scary for some people to come to terms with.

[Keelan]

It's all just vague unsubstantiated guff though, isn't it? You're throwing out neat little phrases as a substitute for any real substance. "People like me" are simply people who've taken the time to read widely with an open mind, make our own judgements on things based on observable fact and logic.

 

That's exactly what I am accusing you of not doing.

 

I like how conspiracy nuts have leapt on Van Rompuy as their latest "proof" of New World Order. His appointment highlights just how un-joined up the so-called World Government is, when even those countries within the EU are so divided and suspicious of each other that any serious candidate was vetoed to the extent of promoting a virtual nobody to a job which theoretically should be as prestigious as the President of the US. As a result, the EU lacks a really powerful and uniting figure to promote their interests on the global stage and have effectively fucked themselves. A pretty poor bit of realpolitik by the lizards.

 

In his first statement he clearly says "this is the first year of global governance with the establishment of the G20 in the middle of the financial crisis. The climate conference in Copenhagen is another step toward the global management of our planet."

 

What does that mean to you? To me it highlights the ideologies of many of our leaders, that they are pushing for a global structure. Having read world history extensively there is ample evidence to suggest this ideology has been on the table for hundreds of years. The economic crash was the result of a flawed banking system, put in place by the same people that have always been for globalization. Climate change is very suspect at the moment and is all about global solutions for this "global" problem. Whether you think it's sinister or not its plainly obvious where we are heading.

 

I've said this many times before, but it bears repeating. For all your claims that "people like me... simplify" things, in fact one of the reasons that some people find the idea of a shadowy global conspiracy so appealing is that it allows them to believe that someone is in charge, that there is some uniting force behind all the craziness you see around you. The reality of the world, that it's a crazy, complicated, illogical place that just messes along as best it can... that's too scary for some people to come to terms with.

 

That's my point, that's how you perceive the conspiracy (to be a simple shadowy government), but a few years reading up on it and you'll realize that this isn't the case, and isn't how the conspiracy is laid out by the people that claim it's going on.

 

It's the history of the banking system, it's globalist ideologies, it's quazi-secret think tanks like the CFR trilateral commission, bilderberg group and club of rome. It's Jewish Zionism, it's corrupt big business, it's religion.

 

All of these things collectively push forward a new world order. They don't necessarily all work together. But basic human nature is about control.

 

I'll just say it again, what do people really think globalization is?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Keelan

[Loki]

It's all just vague unsubstantiated guff though, isn't it? You're throwing out neat little phrases as a substitute for any real substance. "People like me" are simply people who've taken the time to read widely with an open mind, make our own judgements on things based on observable fact and logic.

 

That's exactly what I am accusing you of not doing.

 

I know, that's one of the things about you that sets off my warning systems.

 

In his first statement he clearly says "this is the first year of global governance with the establishment of the G20 in the middle of the financial crisis. The climate conference in Copenhagen is another step toward the global management of our planet."

 

What does that mean to you? To me it highlights the ideologies of many of our leaders, that they are pushing for a global structure. Having read world history extensively there is ample evidence to suggest this ideology has been on the table for hundreds of years. The economic crash was the result of a flawed banking system, put in place by the same people that have always been for globalization. Climate change is very suspect at the moment and is all about global solutions for this "global" problem. Whether you think it's sinister or not its plainly obvious where we are heading.

 

 

That's my point, that's how you perceive the conspiracy (to be a simple shadowy government), but a few years reading up on it and you'll realize that this isn't the case, and isn't how the conspiracy is laid out by the people that claim it's going on.

 

It's the history of the banking system, it's globalist ideologies, it's quazi-secret think tanks like the CFR trilateral commission, bilderberg group and club of rome. It's Jewish Zionism, it's corrupt big business, it's religion.

 

All of these things collectively push forward a new world order. They don't necessarily all work together. But basic human nature is about control.

 

I'll just say it again, what do people really think globalization is?

 

So what you're saying is that the basic human tendency towards creating social units is somehow worrying? You use the term "globalization" as if it's some sort of evil plan to enslave mankind. As a race we have continually evolved into larger and more stable socio-political frameworks as we outgrew the existing ones.

 

The caveman found that working with other cavemen meant they could catch larger prey.

 

Two local tribes joined forces to cooperatively defend against a larger invader.

 

Tribes became nations joined by common languages.

 

Nations joined together in treaties and pacts to encourage trade and defend common principles.

 

You say you're a student of history- what in all that do you find so worrying?

[Astro Hollywood]

Loki, don't waste your time. Arguing against this kind of conspiracy madness just proves to the tinfoil hats what an unthinking sheeple you are. Like debates about religion, they're coming from a (mostly*) uncounterable position, because they're arguing for things which can't be proved either way. You don't get to be so smugly secure in arguments about who scored the winner in the 1988 FA Cup, because a quick Wiki will pull that up, but secret societies and lizard men? Not so much.

 

 

*There are a lot of things that debunk the insanity with facts, like the video countering Loose Change, and other such common sense, but any proof against conspiracies is either "lol, gullible goverment brainwashed sheep!" or accusing the facts of being conspiracy-on-a-conspiracy deliberate misinformation.

 

It's fantastic how "think for yourself!" manifests itself as believing any old shit that gets thrown at you.

 

There's a lot of debate about the mindset of conspiracy theoriest in this thread: http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=107022...tean&st=255 - my own views on it are near the bottom of that page, with the awesome David Shayler breakdown on page 19.

[Keelan]

It's all just vague unsubstantiated guff though, isn't it? You're throwing out neat little phrases as a substitute for any real substance. "People like me" are simply people who've taken the time to read widely with an open mind, make our own judgements on things based on observable fact and logic.

 

That's exactly what I am accusing you of not doing.

 

I know, that's one of the things about you that sets off my warning systems.

 

In his first statement he clearly says "this is the first year of global governance with the establishment of the G20 in the middle of the financial crisis. The climate conference in Copenhagen is another step toward the global management of our planet."

 

What does that mean to you? To me it highlights the ideologies of many of our leaders, that they are pushing for a global structure. Having read world history extensively there is ample evidence to suggest this ideology has been on the table for hundreds of years. The economic crash was the result of a flawed banking system, put in place by the same people that have always been for globalization. Climate change is very suspect at the moment and is all about global solutions for this "global" problem. Whether you think it's sinister or not its plainly obvious where we are heading.

 

 

That's my point, that's how you perceive the conspiracy (to be a simple shadowy government), but a few years reading up on it and you'll realize that this isn't the case, and isn't how the conspiracy is laid out by the people that claim it's going on.

 

It's the history of the banking system, it's globalist ideologies, it's quazi-secret think tanks like the CFR trilateral commission, bilderberg group and club of rome. It's Jewish Zionism, it's corrupt big business, it's religion.

 

All of these things collectively push forward a new world order. They don't necessarily all work together. But basic human nature is about control.

 

I'll just say it again, what do people really think globalization is?

 

So what you're saying is that the basic human tendency towards creating social units is somehow worrying? You use the term "globalization" as if it's some sort of evil plan to enslave mankind. As a race we have continually evolved into larger and more stable socio-political frameworks as we outgrew the existing ones.

 

The caveman found that working with other cavemen meant they could catch larger prey.

 

Two local tribes joined forces to cooperatively defend against a larger invader.

 

Tribes became nations joined by common languages.

 

Nations joined together in treaties and pacts to encourage trade and defend common principles.

 

You say you're a student of history- what in all that do you find so worrying?

 

 

This is what it falls down to, a trust issue. Do you trust an eventual world body in governing the world? Because I don't

 

History was written by the winners, the winners were bankers, big business, politicians and in some historical cases royalty. Once you get a world system run by few people, you don't get out without serious bloodshed. Britain wasn't given a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. I don't like that.

 

Let me pose a question, if a world system takes grip, and we are supposedly in world peace. Who then are the enemy? Anybody with dissenting views? I think that's the highly likely scenario. The world can work with simple treaties and trade agreements. There does not need to be a centralized hierarchy of control.

 

Now you may not see the general idea of globalization as a plot. Firstly that doesn't mean it's not going to be a dangerous system. Secondly I personally do think there is ample evidence of it being a plot.

 

- Who are the richest people in the world, and who controls the entire monetary system? Bankers.

 

- Who appears to make decisions on world policy, who we go to war with, and our laws and legislation? Government and in some historical cases Royalty.

 

- Who controls and manufactures our necessities, material possessions and media consumption? the Corporate world.

 

Then there can be no debate on who controls the world

[Loki]

Woyzeck, you're right. Trying to have this conversation always reminds me of this Family Guy sketch:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l693NzVcPyg

Edited March 17, 2010 by Loki

[Keelan]

You don't get to be so smugly secure in arguments about who scored the winner in the 1988 FA Cup

 

Ah Football, one of man's great distractions. I like how the South African world cup resulted in the eviction and murder of several poor black shanti neighborhoods. And how it was a British construction firm that got the job to build the stadiums. And how it will be the rich slave drivers who own the hotels and big businesses that will get all the economic benefit from the events.

[Keelan]

Woyzeck, you're right. Trying to have this conversation always reminds me of this Family Guy sketch:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l693NzVcPyg

 

Right back at you.

I thought we were having a polite debate though. I guess "herd mentality" took over for you both.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Keelan