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perfectbluefan
http://www.cagesideseats.com/2011/3/7/2035...tailed-analysis


With all the talk of low mid card guys and the women wanting to leave tna, I guess this makes sense.
PowerButchi
He just seems like a moaning and speculative prick to be honest. I made it a quarter through the article before fucking it off.
IANdrewDiceClay
The article basically says wrestling has a tendancy to treat wrestlers like shit and that there is no union and they have to pay their own way. I never got to the part where he begins talking about the new revelation that bears shit in the woods.
PowerButchi
Mind you, I did read the part where he gave TNA shit for not paying for the injuries Konnan has accumulated over the past 20 years. Also, he seemed to start every sentence with "MELTZER SAYS..." or similar.

And his name is possibly Steve Bruce.
IANdrewDiceClay
Konnan came to TNA with a degenerative hip. He was a broken down mess in WCW. Konnan's shoot interview has the best quote when he says "I had to go drug dealing to pay my bills" and when Jim Cornette defends him by saying its hard to save money in wrestling Konnan says "No, I still have my fortune, but why should I have to spend that?" He's a fucking mentalist! Just dip into your bank account you nutter!
patiirc
Jeezus Christ it was like a Spam Bot wrote that. So so disjointed and well soul destroying that I gave up in the end
Loki
The guy's been collating information on this for years now, and he's got some really interesting stuff to say. His article last year on the TNA Knockouts was interesting, their struggles to get any decent pay.

But everything is spun as a conspiracy, which undermines his arguments. The Knockouts is a difficult one, as it's a women' segment in general that gets the rating, rather than any specific lady. The audience likes a bit of tit and ass to fap to, basically. TNA knows this, and is pretty happy to keep a turnover of beautiful ass going rather than raise pay.

The rest of it... well, it's the business. Some promoter needs to step up and change the way things are done, but it's really for the leading WWE to do that, rather than the smaller fed.
tiger_rick
Anyone got a version where he gets to the point quicker?
IANdrewDiceClay
QUOTE (tiger_rick @ Mar 8 2011, 10:50) *
Anyone got a version where he gets to the point quicker?

Basically, Eric Young cant buy the new Ford Mustang but Sting can.
ajmcstyles
Whats new, its the same in WWE. Triple H can afford a mustang while Chris Masters can not
Carbomb
QUOTE (Ian_hitmanhart @ Mar 8 2011, 10:54) *
QUOTE (tiger_rick @ Mar 8 2011, 10:50) *
Anyone got a version where he gets to the point quicker?

Basically, Eric Young cant buy the new Ford Mustang but Sting can.

True, but EY can buy a second-hand Micra whereas Flair can't afford a skateboard.
cokeorpepsi
QUOTE (ajmcstyles @ Mar 8 2011, 12:19) *
Whats new, its the same in WWE. Triple H can afford a mustang while Chris Masters can not

duh.gif

Aren't mustangs only like $20-30,000? Course he could
tiger_rick
QUOTE (cokeorpepsi @ Mar 8 2011, 12:36) *
QUOTE (ajmcstyles @ Mar 8 2011, 12:19) *
Whats new, its the same in WWE. Triple H can afford a mustang while Chris Masters can not

duh.gif

Aren't mustangs only like $20-30,000? Course he could

Alright then, Triple H can pork the bosses daughter while Chris Masters can only put the masterlock on his old fella and fantasise about it.

It's still not fair.
CleetusVanDamme
They've done this article at least 12 times now. The best one was when they spent half the article calling TNA sexist pigs, and finished it by saying that it wasn't sexism and the undercard males were treated exactly the same. Here's the topic for that one http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=122338&st=0



I'd imagine my heroic deconstruction of that "article" will hold true for this one as well. I'm not reading it.



What's their problem with TNA anyway?.
IANdrewDiceClay
Saying that, poor Brian Kendrick is having such a rough time he's had to go on the Price Is Right to make a few quid.
the_original
after 1 paragraph i noticed how long that article is...

perfectbluefan
QUOTE
"I signed a $150,000 contract with TNA Wrestling for a year. I ended up 8 appearances for 40 minutes. Then I signed a second contract and they didn't use me. So, I'd like to thank them for $300,000 for 40 minutes' worth of work."


That was my favourite part.

I legit didn't even recognize the name Jonny Fairplay when I read it.
IANdrewDiceClay
Johnny Fairplay was backstage at the recent Impact tapings looking for work the cheeky git. He knows a good deal when he see's one, I'll give him that.
quote the raven
If you dont like it, go work for ROH, CZW or some local bunch of fools. Im sure you will treat you tons better.
Hyperion
QUOTE (quote the raven @ Mar 8 2011, 20:12) *
If you dont like it, go work for ROH, CZW or some local bunch of fools. Im sure you will treat you tons better.
Guess you didn't read the article since its not about TNA wrestlers whinging about low pay, its about how TNA make out they are the saints of the wrestling biz whilst sniping at WWE, when they treat their talent worse than WWE, ROH and some small indies and hope no one notices. So your post makes no sense here.
Casvegas
QUOTE (Hyperion @ Mar 8 2011, 20:48) *
QUOTE (quote the raven @ Mar 8 2011, 20:12) *
If you dont like it, go work for ROH, CZW or some local bunch of fools. Im sure you will treat you tons better.
Guess you didn't read the article since its not about TNA wrestlers whinging about low pay, its about how TNA make out they are the saints of the wrestling biz whilst sniping at WWE, when they treat their talent worse than WWE, ROH and some small indies and hope no one notices. So your post makes no sense here.


Yes it does he basically says if they dont like it they can go work elsewhere. Nobody made them sign with TNA.
perfectbluefan
I'm not sure about "they can go elsewhere" line.

WWE are so specific on what they look for, usually only bigger guys or in the case of the women, models, so most people on the indies don't have a shot. TNA is the only other place you can go if you still want to be involved in wrestling on a national level and get exposure. Trouble is, TNA know it too, which is why they get away with all this stuff because they know people are so desperate to be in wrestling they'll put up with anything.

Are people dumb for signing? Yes. But TNA are awful for taking advantage and then having the nerve to pretend they represent all that is good and pure in the world compared to evil WWE.


I mean, seriously, when freaking CZW is paying guys' medical bills, and you're a national promotion with millions of dollars and don't, you know there's a problem.
Casvegas
QUOTE (perfectbluefan @ Mar 8 2011, 20:55) *
I'm not sure about "they can go elsewhere" line.

WWE are so specific on what they look for, usually only bigger guys or in the case of the women, models, so most people on the indies don't have a shot. TNA is the only other place you can go if you still want to be involved in wrestling on a national level and get exposure. Trouble is, TNA know it too, which is why they get away with all this stuff because they know people are so desperate to be in wrestling they'll put up with anything.

Are people dumb for signing? Yes. But TNA are awful for taking advantage and then having the nerve to pretend they represent all that is good and pure in the world compared to evil WWE.


I mean, seriously, when freaking CZW is paying guys' medical bills, and you're a national promotion with millions of dollars and don't, you know there's a problem.


I see what you are saying but thats life. Its called paying your dues and if they dont like it they have a decision to make dont they?

As I say nobody makes them be wrestlers and nobody makes them sign with TNA.
Carbomb
QUOTE (Casvegas @ Mar 8 2011, 21:05) *
Its called paying your dues and if they dont like it they have a decision to make dont they?


That's rubbish. Paying your dues isn't about being treated like shit, it's about starting from the beginning, at the bottom, to prove you have the ability, talent and attitude that a company can rely on to make them money. Pretty much every industry requires people to pay their dues as part of a career, but none of them have this stupid, carny, frat-boy shit that so often ends up being excused in wrestling.
perfectbluefan
I don't know what not paying for a guy- who gets hurt working for you- to get an MRI or some other type of check up, when you have the money, has to do with paying dues.

I get the point about nobody holding a gun to their heads, but to me, that's just like the last resort arguement. Nobody in their right mind can defend TNA's business tactics, so the only thing you can say is "well they signed a contract." So? I can sign a contract to sell my kidneys and heart, but it ain't going to stand up in court. There are limits to what a control can do. Including allowing you to treat someone completely inhumanely.
Kenny McBride
What has paying dues got to do with apoearing for a company with network TV, pay-per-view and major international distribution?
perfectbluefan
Yeah, I don't think TNA pay crappy wages, refuse to pay for medical care, give some reality tv guy $300,000 to do fuck all, threaten to fire guys for not wrestling risky styles or blading or get a girl to wrestle two days after a terrible concussion because they want them to pay dues. I think they're just pricks.
PowerButchi
So why is the writer of this poor, overlong meandering article going on about Konnan's injuries not being paid for by TNA when he was already a fallen apart wreck in WCW?

It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.
Carbomb
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 9 2011, 6:55) *
It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.


If you mean wages, sure, no argument there. If you mean stuff like medical and all that, pretty sure that's illegal, even under US law.

Last bit you're absolutely right, but that's not difficult - Johnny Devine was god-awful.
tiger_rick
QUOTE (Carbomb MA @ Mar 9 2011, 10:45) *
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 9 2011, 6:55) *
It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.


If you mean wages, sure, no argument there. If you mean stuff like medical and all that, pretty sure that's illegal, even under US law.

Last bit you're absolutely right, but that's not difficult - Johnny Devine was god-awful.

So was Johnny Fairplay. I agree with Butch's point overall but to suggest that Johnny Fairplay, who's 15 minutes of fame had ended even before he got to TNA and they used about 4 times because he was shit, is worth more than anyone else is just wrong.
Carbomb
QUOTE (tiger_rick @ Mar 9 2011, 10:53) *
QUOTE (Carbomb MA @ Mar 9 2011, 10:45) *
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 9 2011, 6:55) *
It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.


If you mean wages, sure, no argument there. If you mean stuff like medical and all that, pretty sure that's illegal, even under US law.

Last bit you're absolutely right, but that's not difficult - Johnny Devine was god-awful.

So was Johnny Fairplay. I agree with Butch's point overall but to suggest that Johnny Fairplay, who's 15 minutes of fame had ended even before he got to TNA and they used about 4 times because he was shit, is worth more than anyone else is just wrong.


Somebody's got to be better than somebody. Johnny Devine was one of the most anodyne, boring wrestlers TNA ever had, worse even than Jay Lethal. I'm not suggesting Fairplay wasn't shit, he just wasn't as utterly, totally and absolutely shit as Devine.
perfectbluefan
Stuff about medical costs is even more mental when you consider that in 2002 they were originally claiming they were going to be the first company to offer full health insurance to wrestlers, most companies just pay for injuries in the ring and that's all. Fast forward to a few years later and they don't even pay for an injury you get wrestling for them.
perfectbluefan
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 9 2011, 6:55) *
It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.



Fair enough in the case of Devine, but was Jonny Fairplay really worth more than Kong, Gail Kim, Samoa Joe, who was going to leave after tna didn't want to pay him more than $800 a match, Daniels, AJ Styles and a whole bunch of other people he got paid way more than? I think Jenna Morasca even got more than Fairplay did and what did she mean to ratings?

Best you can say is, tna have their priorities way the fuck out of wack.
IANdrewDiceClay
QUOTE (perfectbluefan @ Mar 9 2011, 16:24) *
Fair enough in the case of Devine, but was Jonny Fairplay really worth more than Kong, Gail Kim, Samoa Joe, who was going to leave after tna didn't want to pay him more than $800 a match, Daniels, AJ Styles and a whole bunch of other people he got paid way more than? I think Jenna Morasca even got more than Fairplay did and what did she mean to ratings?

Best you can say is, tna have their priorities way the fuck out of wack.

Samoa Joe was on way more than $800 a match when he was signed away from Ring of Honor and AJ Styles and Samoa Joe are on six figures and have been years. This pair were big players in TNA for years. They've never been on $800 a match contracts while they were on Spike TV. The likes of Beer Money, AJ Styles and Samoa Joe are on very good money, for the dates they work. Far more than WWE will ever pay them (expect Roode of course). Thats life. If they can earn more money elsewhere, thats all well and good. But most of the TNA roster cant, and if they could, they probably wouldnt be in TNA.
The King Of Swing
QUOTE
Dixie had actually set aside $1 million dollars for the Voodoo Kin Mafia's DX challenge (as part of the utterly outrageous work/shoot angle in which Kip and James put up $1 million and offered to fight DX on live television). Dave Meltzer reported at the time that Carter hilariously had been convinced the match would happen, and was even going around and asking people in the weeks following why WWE hadn't answered the challenge yet.


HAHA God I hope that part is true it just fits perfectly with my belief that Dixie is just a massive money mark and that TNA is just a vanity project.
Glen Quagmire
QUOTE (Ian_hitmanhart @ Mar 8 2011, 18:37) *
Saying that, poor Brian Kendrick is having such a rough time he's had to go on the Price Is Right to make a few quid.

I think he only went away with a popcorn machine. Saying that I would have lol's if his bid was $420!
Deaq
Erm? Beyond the mat 2? huh.gif It mentions that Dreamer was auditioning for a part in it? Is this defo happening?
IANdrewDiceClay
QUOTE (Deaq @ Mar 9 2011, 17:36) *
Erm? Beyond the mat 2? huh.gif It mentions that Dreamer was auditioning for a part in it? Is this defo happening?

Beyond the Mat was also a film Kurt Angle did recently where he plays a coach or some shit. Its not the sequal to the documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p-B0GDMe-I
Deaq
QUOTE (Ian_hitmanhart @ Mar 9 2011, 17:38) *
QUOTE (Deaq @ Mar 9 2011, 17:36) *
Erm? Beyond the mat 2? huh.gif It mentions that Dreamer was auditioning for a part in it? Is this defo happening?

Beyond the Mat was also a film Kurt Angle did recently where he plays a coach or some shit. Its not the sequal to the documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p-B0GDMe-I


Ah crap.... laugh.gif

Edit I love in the trailer that the heel of the film is taking the piss out of him for being Asian with the Bruce Lee T and that, then they start playing the music from Dragon The Bruce Lee Story at the end...
Hyperion
QUOTE (Deaq @ Mar 9 2011, 17:36) *
Erm? Beyond the mat 2? huh.gif It mentions that Dreamer was auditioning for a part in it? Is this defo happening?
I thought you were joking at first. But it is just a joke reference to Dreamer getting busted up in front of his wife & kids like Mick did in Beyond The Mat. Nothing more.
King Pitcos
QUOTE (Glen Quagmire @ Mar 9 2011, 17:29) *
QUOTE (Ian_hitmanhart @ Mar 8 2011, 18:37) *
Saying that, poor Brian Kendrick is having such a rough time he's had to go on the Price Is Right to make a few quid.

I think he only went away with a popcorn machine. Saying that I would have lol's if his bid was $420!


Was it a celebrity charity thing or was he actually just a bog-standard contestant on it?
IANdrewDiceClay
No. Just your normal bloke, trying to win a few quid. Never mentioned the record breaking tag title reign or anything.
Ronnie
And here it is: Brian Kendrick, Come On Down!
Cobra1000
QUOTE (Ronnie @ Mar 9 2011, 21:20) *
And here it is: Brian Kendrick, Come On Down!


fantastic, cheers thumbs-up.gif
BiffingtonClyro
He should have wore the jacket.
PowerButchi
QUOTE (perfectbluefan @ Mar 9 2011, 16:24) *
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 9 2011, 6:55) *
It's the same as any company, they pay who they think is worth more to them more than others. Was Johnny Fairplay worth more to them than Johnny Devine? Probably was to be honest.



Fair enough in the case of Devine, but was Jonny Fairplay really worth more than Kong, Gail Kim, Samoa Joe, who was going to leave after tna didn't want to pay him more than $800 a match, Daniels, AJ Styles and a whole bunch of other people he got paid way more than? I think Jenna Morasca even got more than Fairplay did and what did she mean to ratings?

Best you can say is, tna have their priorities way the fuck out of wack.


I think Gail Kim has shown her worth in WWE, and it's next to fuck all. TNA don't have their priorities out of wack, they want exposure. After Kong and Kim both left the company the other girls in the quarterly after the top of the hour got the highest ratings. You're talking tired stuff from this time in 2010. If you go to bed you might wake up this year and see what's happening.

And also, using Christopher The Walking Computer Game Moveset Daniels as an example of anything decent is flawed in so many ways it beggars belief. He's touching 40 so he's no new talent, he's a dullard as regards character, and he wrestles like a CAW on Smackdown vs Raw, only he sells less.

Do you want six sides?
Deaq
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 10 2011, 0:55) *
I think Gail Kim has shown her worth in WWE, and it's next to fuck all. TNA don't have their priorities out of wack, they want exposure. After Kong and Kim both left the company the other girls in the quarterly after the top of the hour got the highest ratings. You're talking tired stuff from this time in 2010. If you go to bed you might wake up this year and see what's happening.


Only reason Gail Kim has done fuck all so far in WWE is nothing to do with her. Its down to WWE not using her in anything really, When they do they shift the story to some other diva who is more favored like Eve. If WWE don't get behind you then you will tank no matter how good you are.
PowerButchi
No, it's because she's been exposed as shite in my opinion. True talent in WWE has always rose above their style.
Dirty Eddie
QUOTE (ButchReedMark @ Mar 10 2011, 1:23) *
No, it's because she's been exposed as shite in my opinion. True talent in WWE has always rose above their style.


I disagree with your opinion of Gail.

I'm a long fucking way from being a fan of women's wrestling in general (especially mainstream US stuff), but it's clear as day that when Gail was given a decent opponent and time to develop both a story and longer matches, she did really well in TNA. When given 3 minutes to job to Alicia Fox in WWE she looks worthless. Hardly surprising is it.

The members of kai en tai were very talented cruiserweights, but they became nothing-happening, comedy jobbers in WWE. It's almost entirely down to how WWE decides to present you. These days more than ever before.
PowerButchi
I disagree with that, because Taka got over in 97-98 in spite of being neutered from his Japanese style, as did Sho Funaki in the early C21st. And Taka vs HHH was amazing. He worked in the WWF style and it was superb. It was storytelling. If you are a quality wrestler, you can work to any style.
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