It's a subject that has been discussed in Scottish politics fairly regularly in the past few years, with the SNP being in favour of a referendum on the matter.

Other Scottish political parties who favour Scottish independence include Solidarity, the Scottish green party and the Scottish socialist party.

Opposition comes from the likes of the Scottish Labour party, Scottish Conservatives and the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

The SNP have claimed that a 2010 referendum bill is part of it's third legislative programme, with the bill being published on Burns night in January 2010, and the actual referendum itself being scheduled for sometime around St Andrews day in November.

Personally, i'm highly sceptical of it coming to light, seeing as the idea of independence is opposed by the majority of the Scottish parliament.

It does make for interesting times however, and would open up a whole new can of worms on how such an idea would actually be feasible.

Subjects such as currency, monarchy, border lines & passport regulation would all have to be decided, along with the much debated north sea oil situation.

There are various pros and cons for Scottish independence, all of which I was hoping would make for some interesting discussion among some of our more politically minded members, be they Scot or non-Scot.

Perhaps even some of our Irish and Welsh members can give their views on independence for their nations as well.

Anyway, let the English majority start their bashing of us Scots. We are, after all, little more than a drain on your finances, are we not?

In all seriousness, it'll be interesting to see what the general consensus is.

In all seriousness I'd quite like to know if there would be any negative impact on me if Scotland got their independence? What resources are controlled by Scotland?

At present, we really control nothing. Everything is controlled by London.

Obviously, the main resource that we brought to the table was the north sea oil, with somewhere in the region of £200 billion being raised in profit from it.

We would be looking to take control of this resource, although reports have suggested that the oil in that area is running lower as time passes, and that it won't last much longer.

The way it was described to me in Politics class (and bear in mind this is a good 12 years ago, haha) was that the problem would be EU membership, as countries such as Spain would oppose such a move as it'd encourage a similar move by the Catalan folk there. In fairness, I can't see why anyone who's not Scottish would actually care.

I lived in Scotland about 20 years ago. Salmond and the SNP were banging on, albeit with smaller gusto then. It seems this devolution thig has gone to far. Some of the wider ranging aspects were .. Labour really fucked up with their semi devolution

If Scotland becomes independent there are lots of considerations to be taken into account Such as setting up border stations all over Scotland and between England and Scotland. Though wouldnt apply due to freedom of momevent for EU citizens.. I guess it would pissoff holiday makers and non eu nationals to show their passports when trains and cars go between the two countries. would also add an age to travel times.

British forces would also have to be dismantled and Scottish and the rest would have to have seperate forces Army Navy etc

There may be problems for students from England and Wales going to Scottish Universities and Schools

The proposal that Rangers and Celtic to play in the English leagues if was ever to be agreed would like be scrapped.

There would be seprate Tarriffs and import and export duties

Scotland would probably have to consider its EU membership.. if they didnt would they early adopt the Europe and lose some of their just gained independence.

Would they go back to Gaelic as a primary language and be dual languaged like the road rail etc signs in Wales

There is a whole host of questions plsu would the Scots be wanting to pay for all the rebranding rearranging and stuff that would be associated with severing ties?

Scottish and can't really see any real advantages of independence.

Whilst I wouldn't like to see Gaelic brought in as our primary language, it would be nice to see it taught at Scottish schools again.

Gaelic would probably be simmilar to here in Ireland, where we officialy class ourselves as a bilingual state despite the fact that oh say ... twelve people speak Gaelic, despite the fact that it is compulsory in education right up to university which is a fucking joke considering it serves no use whatsoever except in Government, and even at that it's just a formality/tradition.

Why? Gaelic is a waste of time as a language that adds nothing to our country.

Although the theme tune from Dotaman is the fucking bomb!

When I was at school, and it may have changed now but I doubt it, Gaelic wasn't even an option.

It should be an option.



Purely for traditional reasons if nothing else.

Scottish independence would be a disaster as the SNP have recently proved themselves inept on the international plateau with the Lockerby bomber fiasco. The fact that Diagio amongst others are pulling jobs doesnt help. We as Scots would be taxed through the nose. The only up side would be the possibilith of leaving the EU. I certainly would be considering moving if independence was on the cards.

How, exactly, did the SNP show themselves to be inept?

Given they released a man who most sensible people believe was innocent and was just given up as a sacrificial lamb by Libya, I'd say they did fine.


From a New Statesman article on it from a few weeks ago. But I'm guessing this has already been covered at great length elsewhere, my apologies.

I say give the people of Scotland a vote. If they say yes, then yes. Let democracy take its course.

I think there should be a public referendum on independence in Scotland, but I'd probably vote no. It would probably cause a lot more bother than its worth. What I'd prefer is for Scotland to have more autonomy within the UK, and the reduction of MPs representing Scotland at Westminster.

This won't make Irn Bru more expensive, will it?

I voted "No" but, for the life of me, I can't remember why.

In that case, I vote yes just in case.

The "unsure" option should be changed to "not bothered"

This sums me up. Living in/around London I can honestly say I have never devoted any real thought about Scotland in any possible way whatsoever. I've never thought of going there, what their politics are like, the weather...literally nothing. So here's my question to you guys, why do they have their own bank notes when the currency is the same? If they are controlled by England...whats the fucking point? It seems a bit bonkers to me.

The same could apply to Northern Ireland and Isle Of Man too.

Doesn't the Isle of Man have its own Prime Minister? That's something at least.

The Bank Of England have a monopoly on notes in England and Wales, but not in Scotland or Northern Ireland. Thus, the Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Scotland, RBS, Ulster Bank, Bank of Ireland, Northern Bank and First Trust Bank all have their own banknotes in circulation.

If it was so obvious to everyone that he was innocent then why would there be so much controversy over it, they should have been able to justify their decision properly.

If it was so obvious to everyone that he was innocent then why would there be so much controversy over it, they should have been able to justify their decision properly.

I don't care. Actually, I do care. I don't want them to become independent as I hate Alex Salmond's face.

which are, suprisingly enough, LEGAL TENDER!

try telling that to an english corner shop owner.

Actually they aren't legal tender in England.



However





http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/about/faqs.htm#16

Pedantic fact, but true. And one you need to know if you are going around screaming LEGAL TENDER at every Englishman who refuses a Scotish note.

The bottom line is, if he hadn't been released on "compassionate" grounds, there's a very high chance that he would have been set free following his upcoming appeal.

Apparently he has released a 300 page document which challenges the charges brought up against him, and it stood to make a bit of a mockery of British justice.

Rather than go through with the appeal and run the risk of a high profile black eye for the UK justice system, they chose to release him on compassionate grounds.

Obviously, the US aren't happy about that, but fuck them.

I'm all for it, if they really are independent and England/Great Briton has no input to them bar international trade and the like.

I don't want to see them "independent" but what it actually means is they can carry on with all the good bits they get from being in with England but tweaking the bits they don't like. I wouldn't want them still in the NHS or using UK prisons or funding or any thing like that, as they are there own country then. No having your cake and eating it.

There would be some huge obstacles to overcome should such a thing ever happen.

The NHS and prison system is a great point. What happens to the prisons & hospitals all built in Scotland? The supplies? The doctors?

I think the main concern for politicians, and more importantly the ones who are against independence, is the fact that a break-up of the union would see parties such as Labour, Conservative and the Liberal Democrats become a part of the past in Scotland.

Those parties as primarily English, aren't they?

There would be a lot of Scottish MPs out of jobs I would think.

I'm actually more in favour of a devolved government for England, I think the country gets a raw deal with the current setup. Scottish independence would benefit both sides, but is a more extreme option than simply changing Westminster's focus solely on England.

I assume Scotland would establish its own NHS type system in time, and the doctors and hospitals would run under those, and the political parties would be the same people running in the new all Scottish Parliament with the same aims, just under a new party name.

Don't get me wrong, I assume there would be a hand over time to let you get on your feet, just as long as it is a X ammount of years deal and not forever.

Don't forget the NHS in Scotland is actually seperate from England and Wales already.

It is and it isnt as I understand, much like Wales.

They don't use HRG4 and the like dealing with Engalnd Trusts but they are funded from the whole pot I believe and are stuck with some rules much like the rest on what they can and can't do.

Health policy in Scotland is set by the Scottish government and the funding all comes out of the Scottish block grant. You can argue about whether or not Scotland is subsidised by England (it's only really a questionable point if you think that if/when the oil revenues get divvied up that Scotland wouldn't be entitled to a substantial majority of it), but the funding and management of the NHS in Scotland is entirely controlled by whoever controls the Scottish Parliament.

In my opinion, when the oil runs out Scotland can be as independent as it wants.

+1

The oil supply is one of the major obstacles in the fight for independence I think.

Obviously, if Scotland were under the control of the SNP, the English wouldn't have much trouble dealing with our government.

After time passed though, and elections came along, if someone like a Tommy Sheridan were to gain power, things would change in a hurry.

Then there is also the small matter of the nuclear weapons in Scotland. All of the major Scottish political parties such as the socialists, the greens and the SNP are opposed to Scotland housing any kind of nuclear weaponry.

These would have to be removed back down to England.

What about the armed forces as well? The three parties mentioned above don't support the Labour partys war in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Would all Scottish troops be pulled from the British forces in these countries?

But what drugs are availiable, for example, is set by the same standards as the rest of the UK I beleive. They don't have the power for major reforms within the system they would have on thier own as well, as I know it. As i said its all a bit here or there to my knowledge and is a funny one.

And who gives Scotland this "Scottish block grant" just out of interest? Wouldn't be England would it?

No, the Scottish NHS is a separate body. Some things are the same, like the licencing of doctors and so on, and if you mean that a drug that isn't licenced for use in England also wouldn't be licenced in Scotland then yes, you're right. But when it comes to the financial decisions about whether a drug can be used on either side of the border, that's up to the local health boards and/or the Scottish or Westminster government.



NO! It comes from the Westminster treasury, to which England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all contribute. You are aware that Scottish people pay tax too, right?

It's hardly a case of England "giving us" the grant though, is it?

We all pay towards the NHS in the exact same way that the English do.

The most interesting aspect of the current devolution to me is that the Scottish and Welsh assemblies get to make their own decisions independent of English input, but we don't get the same benefit. All English issues are voted on by Scottish and Welsh MPs.

I always go by the basic ethic that in a country the size of U.K and with an influence receeding all the time we really are better off togther than apart. I can understand Scottish people wishing to have more influence in matters that they think Westminister handle badly but independence will only make both constituents of the U.K even weaker.

However it is all down to the will of the Scots in the end and if they so wish to delcare themselves a seperate entity from England,Wales and N.Ireland then so be it.

I also heard on the radio about renewed appitite in Cornwall for greater autonomy....I mean seriously Cornwall ,this is all a bit stupid if you ask me as I think we will end up and part of an E.U state within the next 20-30 years.

It isn't though, is it?

Without the okay from Westminster we can't have our referendum, just in the same way that any rules or bills that our government want to pass can be blocked by Westminster.

Basically, we are allowed to govern ourselves as long as the English parliament doesn't disagree with what we are doing.

If the Scottish want independence then I can't see Westminster standing in the way of the Scottish,not for a second.

Being Welsh myself I have always felt that England gets a raw deal on this front.

Gordon Brown has publicly voiced his opposition not only to Scottish independence, but to any referendum that the SNP want to pass.

It's slightly suspicious that the only member of the Labour party to come out and say "okay, if the Scots want a referendum on the matter, let them have it." was basically forced to resign a month later because of some donation scandal.

At present, it's highly doubtful that we will even get the opportunity to vote on the issue, never mind actually become an independent nation.

There are basically 78 people who sit in Scottish parliament that don't even want us to get the opportunity to vote on the matter.

The entire process will be closed down by 78 people, who all have their own agenda for not wanting the referendum to take place.

It's shocking. Come the next general election, it could get pretty ugly, depending on how things end up. If Labour are able to form a government but their majority depends on Scottish and Welsh MPs, I can see English people calling for Scottish independence pretty sharpish. If the Tories form the government but don't get more than a couple of MPs up here (which seems the most likely outcome at the moment) then there will be a surge of support for the SNP because people up here will feel that their votes are meaningless.

As far as the referendum situation goes, John Major spelled out the constitutional position years ago. If the SNP won a majority of seats in Scotland at a general election, then independence negotiations would begin more or less immediately. It would be very tough to see how a democratically elected government conducting a free and fair referendum could be blocked by Westminster.

I do think Salmond is using the whole Scottish nationalism as just a method to ensure some sort of legacy for himself without a great deal of thought of how it will effect future genrations after he has gone.

I hope Scotland do get the chance to vote on this as it needs to be dealt with whatever the outcome of such a vote.

If the Scottish Government passed the referendum bill next year, and the vote showed that the majority of Scots do want independence, the matter will then have to be discussed by Westminster.

Even at such a late stage, despite the bill being passed and the people of Scotland voting in favour of such a move, Westminster can still block the proposal going ahead.

The question of how Westminster would react to such a series of events would certainly prove interesting to say the least.

All of that is not worth considering however, as the current climate in the Scottish parliament suggests that such a bill would not pass due to opposition from the other parties such as Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats.

Like I said, we will probably be denied the right to vote on the matter by a grand total of 78 people.