It's actually a half decent point annoyingly, much as your lot are a foul bunch of cunts who should be wiped off the face of the planet (yeah richie I was comparing the EDL to paedophiles, they're both scum) MAC are certainly no better. If you're against your lot you should proably be against them as well. Personally I am, and I think hope not hate should do more on that side of things.
The only justification I can see is that the police, the secret police, the media, america and a fair few others are all over muslim extremism and it's getting rather dealt with. Chap got four life sentences last week in a sting operation as he tried to recruit undercover old bill to go and fight in afghanistan, despite what you morons think quite a bits being done to combat muslim extremism whereas it's only recently they've started to look at your lot as violent criminals in the same way.
So yeah in some ways they should highlight more the problems with muslim extremism, not just at hope not hate but at UAF and the liberal left in general. But on the other hand that's already being done quite a bit, whereas no-one other than hope not hate is really shining a light on what cunts you lot are (and I know Adam, it's just a conspiracy to hold the white man down and I'm delusional to believe any of it, you're a smashing group of blokes and the union of journalists, and myself, and everyone else that's been around you, we're just making it up as part of a muslim conspiracy to take over the world).

Pleasingly, looks like a couple of your lot actually get stabbed yesterday, by muslim youths apparently
http://www.tntmagazine.com/tnt-today/archi...-in-london.aspx
Whether this was the MAC lot or just a couple of normal muslims who rather dislike the "Fuck allah" signs and things like that your lot bring, I have to confess it is good to read that people are actually stabbing you. They lived, unfortunately, but it still seems a good start.
And yes, the MAC lot demanding sharia law and using the day of 9/11 to do it are a bunch of cunts as well, and it's a shame none of those got stabbed.

I think you will get brought up in been happy about them been stabbed as for what I think I'm not saying I'm happy about it but I'm not going to be shedding any tears over it either probably like what happens to a lot of loud mouths sooner or later they opened their gob to the wrong person.

TBH I wouldn't mind if every member of the EDL and MAC as well as any other group like them were shipped off to an deserted island and just let them fight it out between themselves without having to disrupt anybody else's lives

That's a ridiculous point. South Yorkshire isn't a country.


Nope, it's simply one of many reasons.


If it was up to Westminster we wouldn't have free universities anyway, would we? Seeing how things have went in recent years under a British Government I think I'd prefer to take my chances as an independent nation. I doubt it can really be much worse.


People like you are just as frightening as any insult-hurling EDL member.


Throw the likes of UAF in there and I'll agree with you. If we got rid of all those kinds of groups it would just leave the rest of us to get on with actually living our lives and getting shit done.

That'd be my choice as well, get the pair of them out.
Re being happy about them being stabbed though, is anyone on here gonna shed any tears if Jim Brown gets fucked up in prison? Course not, scum sometimes get what they deserve, and it's tough not to feel they should do.

I wouldn't have an issue with that, but the problem I have is that the same people who attend the anti-EDL/SDL marches that would agree with you are usually the first to stand up and start wringing their hands when a kiddie fiddler gets fucked up in prison or gets a doing in the street.

What are you actually basing that on? Not entirely sure there's a provable link with being anti racist scum and fighting for the rights of paedophiles.
In fact I'd go so far as to say you're talking ill informed bollocks.
But let's say it's true, so what? I'm just me, I'm not speaking for every person that's anti-edl. I know there are people who disagree with the EDL who are not so violently opposed to them, and feel there are lines one shouldn't cross. I see people who are keen to educate and help EDL members as they see them as products of society and their own mental illness's and might well be as sympathetic to paedophiles in the same way.
But I'm not one, and most aren't from what I've seen.

And we're supposed to be the bad guys! Hahaha this a fucking amazing post right here.

You're ALL the bad guys, both lots of extremists. Two cheeks of the same arse, as a wise man once said. You are on the absolute margins of our society, and represent only the views of a tiny minority, so the only way to promote your beliefs is through violence and disorder.

If you had any intelligence, you'd feel nothing but shame over the whole weekend's events.

Where exactly have I supported anything that happened yesterday?

Who can be happy about people getting stabbed? What the fuck??

Oh and look someone else on the intelligence kick..

I'd direct that quote at both the EDL & the so-called protest groups as well.

Also I'm actually disappointed about the lack of coverage the mainstream media has given to the protests, I'm not shocked by it obviously, but it's been once again swept under the carpet.

It was in the sun, today, unusually well balanced report actually. They mentioned a group of muslim extremists tried to fuck the whole thing up, and a far right extremist group did much the same.
They also mentioned a seperate protest by Muslims a way away, protesting against the actions of the extremists who don't represent their religion. Needless to say the group that came out best of the three was the moderate Muslims, who by all accounts conducted a non-violent non inflamatory protest which did them and their religion great credit.

Where did you support what happened yesterday? You may not be aware of this, but just underneath the words you write on here, a big sig saying "EDL" comes up. This kind of thing may just be related to the questionning of your intelligence, or it may be another example of a media and government conspiracy to bring in Sharia law, it's very tricky to know for sure.

Yeah, I am an EDL member, but I'm still allowed to disagree or choose not to take part in certain things that other members of the group do. I don't have to blindly support everything do I?

Out of interest, how does one become a member of the EDL? Is it a case of paying a membership fee and filling out forms? Or do you just turn up to a march/protest?

Yes, you do. Otherwise we can't all point and make fun of you. You had better have a shaved head, tattoos & at least three pairs of Doc Martens as well (of which one pair had better be red).


I'd reckon it's quite a complicated process. Don't they make you jump through hoops and have someone vouch for you etc? They're usually on guard for infiltrators and the like.

Yesterday is what the EDL do, it's what they were set up to do, it's what they do every town they go to, it's what they are. If you didn't agree with it, you don't really agree with the EDL. And that's where the intelligence/sanity debate comes in. If you support them, you support what they are, yesterday is what they are. And quite frankly, yeah, the two who got stabbed had it coming, and so would the MAC twats if they'd got cut too.

By the same token, if a couple of UAF members got in the faces of some EDL members and they got stabbed, they'd deserve it too?

Mickey could probably tell you better than I, but as far as I'm aware it's just find your local branch and join up on facebook or whatever it might be, or know someone who'll take you along if you want to be part of the coachtrips and all that jazz.
Or you can just turn up and join in.
Alot of their support comes from football firms, so if you're well known for beating the shit out of people who follow a different team you'll have a bit of a leg up.

Well no, the other side of the EDL coin is not the UAF, much as they'd like to paint it as such. The other side is the MAC or islam4uk or any of those bunch of twats. And yeah, if during them trying to fuck up a rememberance day for a tragedy which saw 1,000's killed they got sliced for their troubles, they'd fucking deserve it, and I've already said that.
While I wouldn't necessarily condone every action of every member of the UAF, they are fighting the bad guys, which is a pretty reasonable thing to be doing, and doesn't mean they deserve stabbing.
Unless of course a couple of UAF members decided to walk round muslim areas with big signs saying fuck allah, or something equally pleasant, in which case - by the same token - they'd probaly have it coming.

It's basicly a street movement so there are no proper memberships, however the more you attend & get to know people the easier it is to involved. Making a donation always helps.

And "trusted members" are always invited to book places on the coaches set up by the regional members.

Sooo, it's ok to stab people, maybe even kill them because you don't like what they say?

So saying "Fuck Allah" in a Muslim area gives the people of the area freedom to commit violent acts?

Clown.

Thought as much. Cheers.

No of course it's not, don't be silly. It's illegal and rightly so.
But if you insist on being a cunt, chances are at some point someone will take exception, and quite frankly you'll have had it coming. That's not legal, but it is life fella.

Except its not a ridiculous point as its still part of the UK. As is Scotland. Its no more unfair on South Yorkshire than it is Scotland that our overall government has the power over a unitary state. Being a country makes no difference, we still voted against the current government and we still have to put up with it. Thats democracy, if it doesnt go your way then suck it up and get over it, democracy means accepting it when its against you as well as when its what you want. Or campaign for independence obviously.

But joking aside, would you prefer full independence or one of the other options that people have been floating about? If so would you want Scotland in the commonwealth or not?

If I walked around peckham tomorrow with a big ol placard saying "Fuck niggers," and I got fucked up, I'd have it coming.
And the irony here old boy, is that the EDL was set up to oppose, violently in most cases, extremist muslims point of view. You can't have it both ways, if you're pro people being allowed to do and say what they want, you can't then violently protest people for doing just that.

You're right! People should be allowed to protest and say what they like but the media bias will never allow that to happen, for example the EDL do it in Tower Hamlets, it's on the news, vilified & people wring their hands about it.
MAC do it and it gets very very little press, I don't even think it got any tv coverage.

Bit one sided wouldn't you say?

Didn't we already have a thread that consisted of Big Mickey talking shit, and then having Kiffy respond with "You hate pakis and niggers", "You hate pakis and niggers", "You hate pakis and niggers", over and over again, for 50 pages?.



Do we really need another?.

I'd say that there is a huge anti islam bias in the mainstream press. These MAC pricks get so much press, albeit tabloid press, that you might think they are numbered in their thousands where in truth they are such a tiny organisation.

Well no, not really, the sun reported the MAC lot today, in the same way it reported your lot.
And if not, really, you've only got yourselves to blame. No matter how foul the cause of the MAC and islam4uk is, they manage to have their stupid little protests and march's without the need for 100's of thousands of pounds to police them, and they're pretty much always non-violent. But when the media did give them loads of attention it was exactly what they were looking for, it made a tiny number of insane muslims look like a serious far reaching problem, it gave them more publicity than they could ever have dreamed of.
And what happened? People as stupid as you and yours ended up fucking believing it, and now every few weekends we've got a few hundred drunk skinheads marching under the banner of EDL to protect a country that's 94% non-muslim from being taken over by Sharia law.
There was a huge media bias against Muslims in the tabloids for years. Cos it sold papers, but then it created idiots like you who couldn't see past the headlines and understand what was actually happening.
But the media bias against the EDL, isn't part of some huge conspiracy, you're just a bunch of cunts, and it's nigh on impossible for the media to report on you without highlighting you're a bunch of cunts. And when you assault and set fire to the media that come out to cover your static protests, you really don't do anything to change that.
There's no conspiracy, no media cover ups, there's just a bunch of cunts (you) and another bunch of cunts (the extremist muslim types) and the reason everyone hates both of you, is that you're a bunch of cunts.
Really can't be any clearer than that.

Fair point, I'm clearly not doing well with the self restraint here, I'll move on.

Before you go, Kiffy, maybe you can answer a quick question.

I've seen plenty of Facebook events for the UAF and organising against the EDL/SDL, but do those same groups stage counter-protests against such groups as MAC & Islam4UK?

In a word: no

Happy too, I should point out though that I'm not a member of UAF and don't know a huge amount about them. I have done work with the hope not hate campaign involving flyering against the BNP and obviously still get their newsletters and such so I can offer more in terms of them than the UAF.
But, without pretending I'm part of them or can speak for them, the UAF exist to fight facism, they originally formed to fight the national front (as I understand it, could be wrong). Then the bnp gained in popularity while the national front very nearly died, so they shifted their focus.
Fast forward to now and the BNP are dying but there's a massive rise in a new street protest group called the EDL, who originally counter protested against the MAC, I4UK etc. But very quickly the EDL's protests moved away from protesting only the extremisits, and moved into protesting in heavily muslim areas just because they had large numbers of muslims. In addition to this they started to protest at the opening of mosques, it very quickly became clear that the EDL as a group was an anti-muslim organisation, funded and created by BNP activists to allow racial intimidation and attacks not seen in this country for many years. So they went after that, cos that's what they do.
MAC and I4UK are alot smaller than the EDL or the BNP, or the national front of old. They don't represent anything like the threat to equality that the EDL do. They're religous extremists, of course, but attacking religous extremism was never the aim of the UAF. As an example mary whitehouse was a mental religous extremist, and if her views had been made law we'd live in a much more repressive and boring society. Just as if sharia law came in, we'd live in a much more repressive and boring society, but neither could happen, so it's not entirely worth worrying about.
As offensive as I4UK is, it's not turning up en mass in white areas and racially abusing people for being white. If it did I'd say we would be more likely to see UAF protest against it.

So that's (what I know of) the history. However, I said on the page before, it's not how I'd do it. I think I4UK should be linked on the hope not hate's homepage as a hate group, I think the same about MAC.
Would counter protesting by the UAF against muslims extremists make sense? Before the EDL existed it might have done, at this point it would do more harm than good. I'm against I4UK, but if I'm standing next to a guy with "Fuck allah," written on a placard next to me I'm equally against him. It would be a knightmare to police, it would kick off worse than it already does, and honestly, groups like I4UK are so small, and so heavily monitored by the authorites, that they're increasinly unlikely to ever manage to do any harm.
Whereas the EDL does harm on every march and static demonstration it puts on.

So, the answer is no basically?

Hee, yeah that was a bit wordy, tried to give a bit more understanding into what groups like the UAF are, and the reasoning behind it.
But no, no they don't, quite frankly I think they should speak out against it more, but I don't see alot of point in them counter demonstrating I4UK at the moment.

One could be forgiven for getting the impression that UAF should really be called Unite Against White Fascism, couldn't they? What's good for one bunch of cunts is surely good enough for another?

I think there's possibly the element that I4UK and MAC aren't making out that they're representing English values. The EDL are. So there's a large element of 'not in my name' going on, I think.

Also, the mainstream media has (up until recently) given far more coverage to islamic extremists than the EDL, so there are already plenty of voices against Islamic extremism. Look back at the day in Luton when the EDL was formed. A small group of dicks from an Islamic extremist group made headlines, whereas the hundreds of football mentalists that turned up against them didn't get mentioned.

Not sure that you could really call I4UK fascists, religous extremists certainly but I don't think they actually qualify as fascists.
And the counter to that argument would be that the only fascism that could possibly come to pass in this country is white facism, as the vast majority in the country are still white.
But again, not part of the UAF meself, and would be quite happy to hear that both sets of cunts had been wiped off the face of the planet, while I have a fair few sympathies with the UAF I'm not posting on behalf of the UAF, simply against the EDL. So no matter what the general theory is in regards to the UAF, it doesn't really affect my arguments against the EDL.

I'm not talking about the media though, I'm talking about groups such as UAF. Surely groups like MAC & Islam4UK can be considered fascist in their beliefs, no?

If the answer is yes, then surely their name implies that they would be against such organisations just as much as they are against the BNP/EDL?


The definition of fascist as far as I can see is "Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice", which would mean that such groups as MAC & I4UK should be grouped with the EDL/BNP.

The fact that you're not asking about the media doesn't mean that the point isn't valid.

Look, all I'm asking is why these groups such as UAF, who are quick to jump all over the EDL (and rightfully so) aren't as quick to condemn the opposite end of the same coin?

And I think I gave a valid answer to that.

You gave an answer, but its validity can be disputed. UAF can't be excused from standing against some fascist groups simply because the media give them more coverage. Going by that theory we should see less protests against the EDL now that they're getting plenty of mainstream coverage?

Surely UAF should be united against all fascism, and not just certain groups?

That's a fair point, they should be.
But it's largely irrelevant to the greater debate in regards to the EDL. Even if uaf should be doing more to counter these forms of facism, it doesn't in anyway justify or excuse the actions of the EDL.

Thank you.


Of course it doesn't, but it does raise the question of why UAF aren't united against all forms of fascism.

I think it's fair enough to pick their battles, so long as they aren't saying that they are not, in principle, ideologically opposed to all those other fascist groups that you've mentioned.

The justification that Chris has given is that of more of a pragmatic choice of focus.

Hope Not Hate has put stuff up today condemning both the EDL and MAC .

I've seen a lot of Muslim people post that they are embarrassed by and hate MAC as they do not represent the majority of the Muslims it's just like the EDL do not represent the majority of the White English.

I think a difference is for the most part MAC believe in what they are doing is right (in a twisted way) whereas a lot of the EDL just do it for a punch up and in reality don't give a flying fig about England.

Have they ever actually addressed groups such as MAC or I4UK? I don't think I've ever seen or heard them say anything about those groups, much less condemning them for their deplorable views.

A quick look at the UAF website would suggest to me that they don't really oppose any fascist groups except the BNP & EDL.


You think so? I believe that there are plenty of EDL members who believe that what they're doing is right as well (in just as twisted a way).