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David
QUOTE (Chest Rockwell @ Oct 22 2009, 14:09) *
Isn't this kind of coverage exactly what you wanted though, harry? When you voted for the BNP in Europe you said that you wanted to be part of sending a message to shake up the main parties. This is how it works.. they win a European seat, they get media coverage and the main parties get up in arms. You don't think Labour or the Tories would be at all shook if the BNP didn't get the coverage do you?

This is completely what you wanted, and it couldn't happen any other way. Accept responsibility.


I was kind of looking for them to get coverage on the likes of Question Time and other political platforms to be honest.

It's not just the BNP I would like to see on that platform though. I'm all for any of the other smaller parties making some waves and getting in on the action.

Politics in this country is stale. We need some fresh faces and some new opinions on matters, from all sides of the spectrum.

I wasn't expecting Griffin to be the focal point of the media all week though, that has bewildered me a bit.

I never really considered him that important.
Chest Rockwell
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 22 2009, 14:21) *
I was kind of looking for them to get coverage on the likes of Question Time and other political platforms to be honest.

It's not just the BNP I would like to see on that platform though. I'm all for any of the other smaller parties making some waves and getting in on the action.


But you didn't vote for them.. you voted for the BNP. Perhaps pragmatically because you saw that they had the best chance of making that impact, but then you still have to accept your part in the consequences of that decision... That's all I'm saying - it's wrong of you to pass the buck to the media.

Of course Griffin was going to be spotlighted if given the slightest opportunity. You've said yourself he knows how to work it, and he's a very polarising figure. If you force people to have an opinion one way or the other on what you're saying then you've definitely got their attention.

QUOTE
Politics in this country is stale. We need some fresh faces and some new opinions on matters, from all sides of the spectrum.


I can definitely agree with you on that. I've never felt less inspired by the choices of representation that I have.
David
QUOTE (Chest Rockwell @ Oct 22 2009, 14:27) *
But you didn't vote for them.. you voted for the BNP. Perhaps pragmatically because you saw that they had the best chance of making that impact, but then you still have to accept your part in the consequences of that decision... That's all I'm saying - it's wrong of you to pass the buck to the media.


By being the only person on here who actually had the nuts to come out and say that he voted for them (even though they got more than 1 vote in that UKFF poll), and even go as far as giving a reason for it, i'd say that it's obvious that i'm not shirking any responsibility.

I'm glad they are on Question Time tonight.

I really hope that the three main parties stop trying to "stop" the BNP and actually start thinking about why they get the votes that they do.

I'm not buying into the idea that everyone who votes for them is racist.

All we need for the BNP to disappear is a mainstream political party who are prepared to take their heads out of their own arses and start listening to people.

My point about the media still stands. They have given Griffin way to much coverage over the past week, it's as simple as that.

For the likes of Sky News to complain about him being given a platform on the BBC, then grant him coverage on their interactive service and two live interviews is laughable.

The choices of Bonnie Greer, Jack Straw, Baroness Warsi and Chris Huhne as his fellow guests are also laughable.

It's clear to me that they have no intention of subjecting him to a "serious debate" at all.
patdfb
Anyone not watching the protests being broadcast on the beeb as they try and storm BBC centre?

2 things have struck me about the protest

1. From the TV pictures its clear that most of the protestors and interviewees against Nick Griffins appearence of white ethnic origin.

2. By not allowing TV recordings etc to go ahead are they not just being as fascist as the party they are trying to stop, as they are denying people the chance to make a decision rather than listen to what every one else says they are about.


The missus reckons its already been recorded
David
Well, big Nick has managed to get into the studio, so it looks as though we'll have something interesting to watch tonight.

I have to admit, I enjoyed watching the floppy haired student types getting fucked out of BBC studios.

Good arrows indeed.
patdfb
Beeb have re dressed the balance somewhat are getting many black and asian views now and are show more ethnic minorities in the crowd. They are however all saying the same thing ,.. and that is the BNP should be denied the right to be on tv and the are not a legitimate party and as a result deserve nothing.


The BNP have been elected right? Admittedly to European Parliament and local councils but the do have constituents. Ergo they represent some portion of voters, whether said voters want them or not is another issue, however they do exist and therefore deserve some kind of exposure.

However, many of the protesters want to deny them this right and say that they should be banned and that this is going to be the worst thing in the history of the BBC, I wish I was exaggerating, but people are claiming that this will be akin to some end of the world armorgeddon.

It really is the most mental thing I have seen in a long long time. People decrying fascism and a fascist party, and then wanting to use fascist style methods so that 'democracy' can prevail. It beggers belief... it really does


No one, and I mean not one interviewee has said what if he cocks up... it could happen, he may not connect with people and the Tv perfomace could be a complete disaster..That he is bigging himself up ala Jean Marie Le Pen saying watch nme fly... would mean the fall would be even more hilarious
David
QUOTE (patdfb @ Oct 22 2009, 18:43) *
No one, and I mean not one interviewee has said what if he cocks up... it could happen, he may not connect with people and the Tv perfomace could be a complete disaster..That he is bigging himself up ala Jean Marie Le Pen saying watch nme fly... would mean the fall would be even more hilarious


Thats because they probably know that he won't fuck up. The fellow panelists aren't qualified enough to challenge him.

The worst that can happen is that he gets heckled and shouted down.

As for the protesters, i'm hoping that things end up going as they usually do. We already have a few arrests for violent conduct, so we'll hopefully see some good scuffles later tonight.

The build-up has been top notch viewing to be honest.
patdfb
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 22 2009, 19:53) *
Thats because they probably know that he won't fuck up. The fellow panelists aren't qualified enough to challenge him.

The worst that can happen is that he gets heckled and shouted down.



I meant in the case that forever reason its flat, he doesnt 'sparkle' ect not just in what he says.. he may not be a 'TV person' as it were and could do him more damage just by appearing if that makes sense..


The Panel doesnt really inspire me with confidence...


Tony Benn, George Galloway, Claire Short, Ann Widdiecombe, Charles Kennedy, Ken Clarke Tommy Sheridan, Ian Hislop and so on and so forth and so on could have made it really fun!

Sometimes asthetics can be as damaging as what is said for TV appearence.


This is better than the Christian Protests over Jerry Springer.... AWESOME!
David
QUOTE (patdfb @ Oct 22 2009, 19:06) *
Tony Benn, George Galloway, Claire Short, Ann Widdiecombe, Charles Kennedy, Ken Clarke Tommy Sheridan, Ian Hislop and so on and so forth and so on could have made it really fun!


George Galloway is no saint either to be honest, but i'd take a certain Mr Thomas Sheridan for the panel anyday!

The people who are being interviewed representing the protesters are doing themselves no favours at all.
patdfb
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 22 2009, 20:10) *
QUOTE (patdfb @ Oct 22 2009, 19:06) *
Tony Benn, George Galloway, Claire Short, Ann Widdiecombe, Charles Kennedy, Ken Clarke Tommy Sheridan, Ian Hislop and so on and so forth and so on could have made it really fun!


George Galloway is no saint either to be honest, but i'd take a certain Mr Thomas Sheridan for the panel anyday!

The people who are being interviewed representing the protesters are doing themselves no favours at all.



True but would have made the discussion more interesting at least
BionicRedneck
Galloway may be a wanker, but he's great TV.
David
QUOTE (BionicRedneck @ Oct 22 2009, 19:14) *
Galloway may be a wanker, but he's great TV.


He's been confirmed as supporting Hamas with financial aid and accused the British media of being controlled by "Zionism".

I also recall him saying something about the UK not being on decent terms with Syria because the country did "good" things like oppose Israel.

Galloway is as much of a tit as Griffin is.
tiger_rick
I found it hilarious on 5 Live drive tonight when the presenter accused a protester of giving the BNP more publicity by protesting. This from the BBC who haven't just invited Griffin on question time but have spent the whole week talking about nothing else.
BionicRedneck
According to people (like The Sun's David Wooding and the Mirror's James Lyons) on Twitter, Griffin is 'rattled' and even Jack Straw is getting cheered.
David
Also according to Twitter;

QUOTE
All kicking off in Shepherds Bush


From a protester apparently.
SpursRiot2012


I can't wait to see what context he said that in. I also think the protesters storming Television Centre and dumbfucks. Anybody would think they'd invited Ian Huntley onto Question Time.

It would be really cool if at the beginning of the show they do an Attitude era WWF build-up video.
BionicRedneck
According to http://twitter.com/DavidWooding

QUOTE
Griffin on Question Time all over. He's left. Worth watching. He gets an absolute pasting.
Dynamite Duane
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 22 2009, 20:19) *
QUOTE (BionicRedneck @ Oct 22 2009, 19:14) *
Galloway may be a wanker, but he's great TV.


He's been confirmed as supporting Hamas with financial aid and accused the British media of being controlled by "Zionism".

I also recall him saying something about the UK not being on decent terms with Syria because the country did "good" things like oppose Israel.

Galloway is as much of a tit as Griffin is.

What exactly is Zionism?
Does it mean to be Jewish or is there more to it than that?

EDIT:
Zionism - wikipedia entry.

Zionism is the international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine. The area was the Jewish Biblical homeland, called the Land of Israel (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el). Since the creation of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.
David
The BNP's website was down earlier, and maybe still is, due to the sheer volume of traffic it's gotten over the past five or six hours, and Griffin is apparently one of the most 'tweeted' people in the world tonight.

Just watched the clips on BBC news, and have to say, he didn't look as though he did too badly for a guy who was basically facing off against an entire studio watching his every move, and a panel & presenter all gunning for him.

Will the sympathy factor come into effect? Who knows.

It certainly signals the birth of the BNP as a "mainstream" political party. No more operating behind a cloak of secrecy, thats for sure.

The old phrase "watch what you wish for, as you may just get it" springs to mind.
BionicRedneck
Every single audience member, journalist or politician who has been interviewed on the news has basically said he made a complete dick of himself.
David
QUOTE (BionicRedneck @ Oct 22 2009, 21:21) *
Every single audience member, journalist or politician who has been interviewed on the news has basically said he made a complete dick of himself.


To be fair, they aren't really going to say that he did a good job and will certainly be winning people over, are they?

With all of the carry-on thats been attached to the show tonight, it wouldn't surprise me if the actual 60 minutes themselves become an after-thought.

A police officer in the hospital, protesters getting tossed around by BBC security (which got a chuckle out of me if i'm honest), their site blowing up from too many visitors, the whole twitter thing, and anything else that happens in the aftermath.

The show itself was never going to be difficult to predict really. People shout at him, blacks & asians get all hulked up and crazy, Griffin talks nonsense, they get more crazy, etc, etc.

The kind of people who are ever going to vote BNP in a serious, UK election ( wink.gif ) won't be sitting down tonight thinking "hmmmm.....Griffin got shouted down by blacks & asians. I'm gonna vote Green instead".

It was mainly about the publicity in my opinion, and they certainly fucking got that.

Edit: Jesus, it seems ol' nasty Nick was right about big Winston;

QUOTE
Sir Winston Churchill and his cabinet colleagues, concerned at the number of "coloured people" they thought were moving to Britain to take advantage of the welfare state, considered introducing immigration controls more than 50 years ago, according to records released yesterday from the National Archives.

In hand-written notebooks, the cabinet secretary, Sir Norman Brook, noted that the then home secretary thought there was a good case for excluding "riff-raff".

Brook stated that controls were discussed at a cabinet meeting on February 3 1954, six years after the ship the Empire Windrush docked at Tilbury with 492 immigrants from Jamaica.

Churchill commented: "Wd lke also to study possibility of a 'quota' - [number] not to be exceeded."

The prime minister began the discussion, saying: "Problems will arise if many coloured people settle here. Are we to saddle ourselves with colour problems in UK? Attracted by Welfare State. Public opinion in UK won't tolerate it once it gets beyond certain limits."

Florence Horsbrugh, the minister of education, added that the problem was becoming "serious" in Manchester. David Maxwell-Fyfe, the home secretary, reported that the total of "coloured people" in Britain had risen from 7,000 before the second world war to 40,000 at the time of writing, with 3,666 of those unemployed, and 1,870 on national assistance, or benefits.

He referred to those "living on immoral earnings". Of 62 people convicted the previous year in the Metropolitan police area, 24 were "coloured". He added: "All administrative measures to discourage have been taken. Only further step would be immigration control over admittance to the UK. We would have to admit in Parliament that purpose of legislation was to control [admission] of coloured. There is a case on merits for excluding riff-raff. But politically it would be represented & discussed on basis of a colour limitation. That would offend the floating vote, and the old Liberals. We should be reversing age-long tradition that British [subjects] have right of entry to mother-country of Empire. We should offend Liberals, also sentimentalists."

But fearing public feeling, he said the risk of introducing controls should not be taken "today". He warned: "The colored populations are resented in Lpl, Paddington & other areas By those who come into contact with them. But those who don't are apt to take Liberal view."


And on the whole army shenanigans as well;

QUOTE
The British Army secretly restricted the number of recruits from ethnic minorities for 20 years, newly released official documents show.

From 1957 Army medical officers were instructed to note all new recruits with "Asiatic or Negroid features".

The data were used to limit the number of "non-white" troops in the Army.

The secret system was uncovered after about 50,000 government files were made public on the first working day of the Freedom of Information Act.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) says the report "does not reflect the current situation" within the armed forces.

Many of the government papers had been kept hidden from the public for decades under the 30-year rule.

But under the Act, implemented on 1 January, the public gains the right to see documents held by more than 100,000 bodies.

The army's recruiting system was even kept secret from government ministers and official race monitors, the documents released under the Freedom of Information Act show.

It appears from the documents, released to the National Archives, that the information was used to limit the number of ethnic minority troops, designated "D factor" personnel.

Medical officers were given considerable latitude in deciding who was classified as "D factor" or non-white. It could even include people of Mediterranean appearance or a "swarthy Frenchman", according to the documents.

The system was outlined in a confidential briefing paper, written for the Adjutant General of the Army in 1972.

"Officially, we state that we do not keep statistics of coloured soldiers," it says.

"In fact, we do have a record, resulting from the description put on the attestation paper by the medical officer, of the features of the recruit.

"At Manning and Record offices, a broad division is drawn between north European and all others, and punch cards for the latter are punched in such a way they can be identified if required."

It added: "The determination of the characteristics is at the discretion of various medical officers, and could include Chinamen, Maltese or even swarthy Frenchmen."

The system was supposed to help the Army ensure its quota restrictions on non-Europeans was adhered to.

In February 1974, Denis Brennan in the Adjutant General's office said the way the Army recorded colour was "complex".

He said: "We do not feel it would be appropriate to mention it to ministers."

The Army chose to lie when asked for a breakdown of serving coloured officers by the Institute of Race Relations in 1972. The Army had agonised over what to do for nine months.

The Institute was told by the Army it did not keep such data. In fact, the Army's "D factor" data showed how few non-white personnel there were.


Source: BBC.com

Fucking hell. Makes you wonder what else they are "keeping secret".

No wonder the Government don't want the BNP on the TV! laugh.gif
Tommy!
Some of the people on the news are amazing, did that one bloke just say "would they have let Hitler on TV befor the war, no they wouldn't". I hope he did and I didn't miss hear him.

I've said it befor and I will say it again, I don't agree with what the BNP say but I respect their right to say it. You shouldn't stop them from a spot on question time based on the fact you don't agree, it undermines the whole system the people who object the BNP support.

If you don't like them don't vote for them and/or try to educate others, don't try to ban them from having their say or start a riot with the police.
David
QUOTE
Asked whether a misguided immigration policy had fuelled the BNP's popularity Mr Straw said he did not think it had and said he thought the BNP had been boosted by discontent with the main parties over issues like expenses.


laugh.gif

I can't wait until this starts!
Tommy!
Why are they talking about the second world war.

Discus you plans for the economy or long term policy or the sale of government assets or something. Don't just focus on Griffin's race issues, hit them on the policy issues.

Some bloke asks about the economy and he gets shot down for "race n that~".

I know thats an issue and needs to be addressed, but don't make it just that for the whole show.
The Cum Doctor
The race issues are such an important part of BNP though, so it's only right that they get that out of the way initially.
David
Thus far we have had a glossing over of what Churchill actually said. It's been reported in reputable media outlets.

Yet Warsi says the "BNP don't share the values of Churchill."

huh.gif
The Cum Doctor
I thought it was brilliant when Dimbleby asked him where he was misquoted and then read out quotes and he managed to look like a right pillock.

"I didn't say black people walk like monkeys."

David
QUOTE (Haraga_Version_One @ Oct 22 2009, 22:49) *
I thought it was brilliant when Dimbleby asked him where he was misquoted and then read out quotes and he managed to look like a right pillock.


Didn't he actually sit there nodding his head while Dimbleby read out those quotes Haraga? He was agreeing with him.

It seems they are still championing Churchill, despite the things Griffin said being an actual fact.
BionicRedneck
"Almost a totally non-violent one"

laugh.gif
The Cum Doctor
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 22 2009, 23:52) *
QUOTE (Haraga_Version_One @ Oct 22 2009, 22:49) *
I thought it was brilliant when Dimbleby asked him where he was misquoted and then read out quotes and he managed to look like a right pillock.


Didn't he actually sit there nodding his head while Dimbleby read out those quotes Haraga? He was agreeing with him.


But for that to happen directly after he said the things that he is hated for is all lies was terrific.

Churchill stuff still going on for the record. laugh.gif

This needs to get out of the way.
ReturnOfTheMack
QUOTE (BionicRedneck @ Oct 22 2009, 23:53) *
"Almost a totally non-violent one"

laugh.gif



Yeah, I laughed at that.
David
QUOTE (Haraga_Version_One @ Oct 22 2009, 22:55) *
But for that to happen directly after he said the things that he is hated for is all lies was terrific.


He said most of the things were untrue, which, after reading the tabloids this week, I could believe.

You'd think it was him who took part in illegal invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan the way the press vilify him wink.gif

QUOTE (Haraga_Version_One @ Oct 22 2009, 22:55) *
Churchill stuff still going on for the record. laugh.gif


Yeah, thats a tad silly. The facts are there to prove the Churchill thing.
BionicRedneck
He really got his arse kicked on the holocaust. That was actually embarrassing.
David
QUOTE (BionicRedneck @ Oct 22 2009, 23:01) *
He really got his arse kicked on the holocaust. That was actually embarrassing.


He's making a comeback on the Islam deal though! laugh.gif
KrAzY
I kind of want to give Nick Griffin a hug.
BionicRedneck
Not really. As that guy just pointed out, he's totally ignored similarly horrible things in the bible.
David
I don't really think that this show is going to convince anyone who was voting BNP, or even thinking about it, not to.

He's getting the treatment you would expect from such a show, but I still think a stronger panel would have done better.
BionicRedneck
OK, now he's coming across as a complete loony.
Kookoocachu
He must be round the twist. Just has to be.
Tequila_Boy
Go Bonnie
David
You reckon?

I don't think he's getting the grief he could and should have.

The other members keep mentioning Churchill, despite the fact that Griffin was right.

They aren't giving him the roasting I was kind of hoping for sad.gif
Kookoocachu
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 23 2009, 0:20) *
You reckon?

I don't think he's getting the grief he could and should have.

The other members keep mentioning Churchill, despite the fact that Griffin was right.

They aren't giving him the roasting I was kind of hoping for sad.gif


I agree, as much as im enjoying this, its the biggest let down of the year.
ReturnOfTheMack
I'm glad they arent being too harsh on him, it would risk giving him more ammo for the 'We are picked on' shit. Nah, he's being shown up at about the right level.
David
QUOTE (Kookoocachu @ Oct 22 2009, 23:24) *
I agree, as much as im enjoying this, its the biggest let down of the year.


Indeed. I'm finding myself sitting here laughing at the show. And not entirely at Griffin.

BionicRedneck
I thought it was basically car crash TV.

Griffin came across horribly. Beyond parody at times. Basically he kept lying, getting caught and then hoping he could get out of it by grinning like an idiot. The 'almost totally non-violent' comment and his comments on homosexuality were pure Alan Partridge.

The way he behaved with Bonnie Greer was creepy and embarrassing. He was so desperate to not come across as racist that he laughed and clapped everything she said, even when she essentially called him a lying idiot. She couldn't have looked any more uncomfortable by being that close to him, either.


David
The best thing to come out of this is somewhat of a good discussion on immigration, which wouldn't have happened if Griffin hadn't been there, so thank-you for that Nicholas thumbs-up.gif

I expected Griffin to face the hairdryer treatment, and I don't think he came out of it as the "nasty nazi" he is, which is a shame.

But the Labour party took a real beating tonight.
Astro Hollywood
It really was an astounding collapse on his part. He was caught in the trap of not having the answer to a lot of points, because the true answers would amount to "Yes, I am a massive racist," hence the humiliating backtracking like "I'm not allowed to tell you why I don't deny the Holocaust anymore," or claiming that he didn't say stuff Dimbleby himself had seen a video of. "He was one of the non-violent KKK" was a highlight, as was the lie-loop of saying he was lying to get the KKK guy on side, er...not lying, I mean...*sweats*

He looked incredibly uncomfortable too - hands shaking, voice shaking, sweaty, that silly little "I'm in on the joke" chuckling all the way through, and the frail-mask slipped totally at end with the stuff about two men kissing being "creepy."
patdfb
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 23 2009, 0:45) *
The best thing to come out of this is somewhat of a good discussion on immigration, which wouldn't have happened if Griffin hadn't been there, so thank-you for that Nicholas thumbs-up.gif

I expected Griffin to face the hairdryer treatment, and I don't think he came out of it as the "nasty nazi" he is, which is a shame.

But the Labour party took a real beating tonight.



How bad does it have to be for JackStraw to get completely Mauled on a show where Nick Griffin appears



FWIW. Tonights QT was the worst I have seen for a long time.. as it was a effectively a single issue show and not respective of the week. I would have liked at least something, even if the last question on the postal strike for example.
Nick Griffin wasnt given too much of a chance to hoist him self by his own petard because everyone else was intent on getting their 2p in 1st.


As I suspected before he really isnt for TV... in the sense he didnt come accross well.. More like a bumbling baffoon

Oh well
David
Bad arrows on Question Time tonight unfortunately.

Judging by twitter and the like it seems that Griffin has become an after thought to the tit that Jack Straw made of himself.

I suppose if anyone could fuck it up, it would be the Labour Party.

Astro Hollywood
QUOTE (hardcore_harry @ Oct 23 2009, 0:55) *
Bad arrows on Question Time tonight unfortunately.

Judging by twitter and the like it seems that Griffin has become an after thought to the tit that Jack Straw made of himself.

I suppose if anyone could fuck it up, it would be the Labour Party.


I guess posts like yours are at least an insight into how a BNP voter would view all that.

And I don't know what Twitter you're using, but overwhelmingly the response seems to be:

- Griffin is an absolute fuckwit and a vile shambles of a man
- Straw is still a cock
- Bonnie Greer for Queen~!

Oh and tee hee at the scamp who snuck in the "Dick...sorry, Nick" gag near the end.
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