Enjoy your ignorance.

You see alot of atheist complaining about Christianity, you see few Christians complaining about atheism.

Why don't people stay out of business that they know nothing about?

You see alot of atheist complaining about Christianity, you see few Christians complaining about atheism.

Why don't people stay out of business that they know nothing about?

But they're not exempt from anything. The Pope is currently under attack for "protecting" a known paedophile. The priest in question is a guy called Stephen Kiesle. He was a Californian priest who had already been punished by the secular authorities and had already had his priestly faculties withdrawn! There was an ongoing discussion about whether he should be laicized, and the Cardinal Ratzinger, as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine Of The Faith, at one point in the proceedings, wrote a letter saying that he didn't want to be unduly hasty and felt he had to take the good of the Church as a whole into consideration before making a decision. You or anyone else getting worked up about that issue is like getting upset about whether or not a private company allows a sacked employee to still get his pension. It's an entirely internal matter.

Keith - I'm just telling you what the Church teaches, and I believe it to be true. I genuinely think that if you were to read the Catechism, you'd find that on everything except homosexuality and maybe marriage, you'd see that the Church's position is outstandingly logical, progressive and just. That's not what makes it right though. It is right because it is God's will. It just so happens that God's will is, unsurprisingly, outstandingly logical, progressive and just.

You talk a lot of shit. An atheist group was forced to take down a pro-atheism billboard in Las Vegas recently, yet religious ones are never taken down there.

Why don't you stay out of business you know nothing about?

A "pro atheism billboard", that sounds like it was only there for provocative reasons. Religious billboards tend to be meant only to preach faith, not to P people O.

I've come to realise that those people were either wilfully avoiding the reality of what the Church is or had been grossly led astray themselves. They needed my prayers, not my anger and resentment

I literally cannot respond to this shit any more. As long as you're ignoring what I actually say and still picking holes where none exist, this is completely fucking pointless. Enjoy your ignorance.

Everytime I read that "they needed my prayers" line I laugh a little harder. It's like something out of a fucking Frank Miller comic.

You come across as pretty petty dancing all over Kenny's melt-down after your earlier attempts to antagonize him in this thread failed so very hard.

So... now we've dealt with the evils of Catholicism, what's next? The rise of evangelical Christians in the UK? Islam?

You come across as pretty petty dancing all over Kenny's melt-down after your earlier attempts to antagonize him in this thread failed so very hard. Had you been waiting with that Jesus pic for months?

And yeah, I still find it amazing that he indulged in a hate campaign towards me, calling me a paedophile because of what I said about Michael Jackson, and got clean away with it. And before he or anyone jumps in with "He was making a witty satirical point", I'll save you the trouble. He wasn't. He's a fucking clown.

Kenny's meltdown deserves the same ridicule as any other meltdown that takes place on this forum.

His allegiance with a higher power doesn't mean he's exempt.

Evangelical Christians are a good shout.

We got any of them on here that can entertain us?

Yeah come on religious folk. Who else wants to take on Team Atheism and be shown to be wrong? COME ON!!!

He doesn't need me to defend him, but as much as I disagree with him on this issue and the teachings of catholicism, he's still top people.

I'll get back to discussing one or two of the points made since then when I've got more time. In the meantime, just remember that Mr. Seven has raped more children than any priest in history.

Wow, typically intolerant atheism has truly raised it's ugly head here.

Thanks for the pro-Kenny/anti-Seven messages, folks. They're much appreciated.

In the meantime, just remember that Mr. Seven has raped more children than any priest in history.

And it wasn't a "meltdown." It was a pretty pathetic way of responding to a stupid turn in the discussion. I'll defend my faith 'til the cows come home, but on that point I thought I was making a few points about the possibility of the Pope being arrestable on British soil, yet somehow it was still turned into "Kenny's a crazy religious zealot who won't listen to reason!" Quick hands up on that point - was my response crazy religious zeal, defending the Pope blindly because that's my duty as a Catholic (it's not, by the way) or was I just discussing international law? I even apologised if I didn't come across the way I intended to, but that seemed to get ignored too. I was confused, frustrated and irritated, so I stepped back.

The leaders of the five million Roman Catholics in England and Wales offered a full apology on Thursday for the child abuse scandals that have rocked the church and said there were "no excuses".

They said the crimes carried out by some priests and religious figures had brought "deep shame" to the whole Catholic Church.

A joint statement issued by Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols on behalf of the bishops at the Bishops' Conference of England and Wales described the child abuse within the Church as a "profound scandal".

"They bring deep shame to the whole church. But shame is not enough. The abuse of children is a grievous sin against God," it said.

"Therefore we focus not on shame but on our sorrow for these sins.

"They are the personal sins of only a very few. But we are bound together in the Body of Christ and, therefore, their sins touch us all.

"We express our heartfelt apology and deep sorrow to those who have suffered abuse, those who have felt ignored, disbelieved or betrayed.

"We ask their pardon, and the pardon of God for these terrible deeds done in our midst. There can be no excuses."

The Catholic Church in England and Wales has been regarded as a model of how to respond to the abuse of crisis, having addressed child abuse in two reports a decade ago. It also has a strict code to safeguard children.

The statement was issued as Pope Benedict XVI officially accepted the resignation of Irish bishop James Moriarty over the cover-up of clerical abuse of children.

Moriarty apologised to victims of abuse and said he should have challenged the culture of secrecy in the Church.

The only reason Mr. Seven is still here is because he's a paid member, right?

Learn to take a joke, chump.

Besides, I know what you look like and, lets be honest, you can always tell a nonce can't you? They have that look about them, the glazed over eyes, usually going bald, wearing glasses and having a mouth like a pan of chips that leers greasily over babies. I saw one of those shitty motivational posters at work and it summed it up, look at this guy

[And yeah, now I am starting a fight because you're full of shit and so is Richard fucking Dawkins. Fuck, I'm angry about this shit.

Is that Kenny in that photo?

LOL.

As for patdfb - what did I say in that response that had anything to do with religion? Universal jurisdiction applies to crimes against humanity. There is simply no way the pope is guilty of that, unless we're going to drag up all the Nazi bullshit again. Even if he's guilty of EVERYTHING he's thus far been accused of, none of it is under British jurisdiction, and it's doubtful much of it would be considered a crime anywhere. I pointed out that it's theoretically possible for him to be arrested under a European arrest warrant for things he might have done as a bishop in Germany, but otherwise it's just a completely ricockulous idea dreamed up to stir up anti-Catholic hatred. Anyone who thinks otherwise if a fucking idiot. And yeah, now I am starting a fight because you're full of shit and so is Richard fucking Dawkins. Fuck, I'm angry about this shit.

I'll defend my faith 'til the cows come home, but on that point I thought I was making a few points about the possibility of the Pope being arrestable on British soil, yet somehow it was still turned into "Kenny's a crazy religious zealot who won't listen to reason!" Quick hands up on that point - was my response crazy religious zeal, defending the Pope blindly because that's my duty as a Catholic...

The only religious element of the question is the nature of the distinction between the Holy See and the Vatican City State, which is largely irrelevant.

Well, firstly the question of whether he's a head of state or not is up for debate, since heads of state ordinarily enjoy diplomatic immunity from prosecution. I'd argue that the Papal States existed for centuries before and after Italian unification. Italy bulldozed through them (leading to the "Prisoner In The Vatican" situation). It's arguable that the Vatican is still a sovereign entity under Italian occupation. Except that Mussolini, as a legitimate head of state, granted the Holy See sovereignty.

Universal jurisdiction or universality principle is a principle in public international law (as opposed to private international law) whereby states claim criminal jurisdiction over persons whose alleged crimes were committed outside the boundaries of the prosecuting state, regardless of nationality, country of residence, or any other relation with the prosecuting country. The state backs its claim on the grounds that the crime committed is considered a crime against all, which any state is authorized to punish, as it is too serious to tolerate jurisdictional arbitrage.

The concept of universal jurisdiction is therefore closely linked to the idea that certain international norms are erga omnes, or owed to the entire world community, as well as the concept of jus cogens - that certain international law obligations are binding on all states and cannot be modified by treaty.

According to critics, the 'principle' justifies a unilateral act of wanton disregard of the sovereignty of a nation or the freedom of an individual concomitant to the pursuit of a vendetta or other ulterior motives, with the obvious assumption that the person or state thus disenfranchised is not in a position to bring swift (possibly violent and massive) retaliation to the state applying this 'principle'.