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DJ Kris
post Aug 17 2011, 12:09
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QUOTE (JNLister @ Aug 17 2011, 12:26) *
So everyone who stole something during the riots, including the woman with the case of water and the guy with the bag of rice, should get the maximum 10 years?

I believe I did say treated on an individual basis. But it should be in the context of what was going on. As in why were they there in the first place? Is it your bog standard slap on the wrist shoplifting offence or were they actively taking part in the riots but water/rice happened to be all they stole? Were they bashing in windows?


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bobbins
post Aug 17 2011, 23:07
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QUOTE (Smeg_&_The_Heads @ Aug 17 2011, 10:51) *
I think there is a bit of a difference in sending a message saying "lets go and loot Asda lol"

Funny you should say that. Someone just got convicted for posting this on facebook:

"I think we should start rioting, it's about time we stopped the authorities pushing us about and ruining this country. It's about time we stood up for ourselves for once. So come on rioters get some. LOL."

They got 120 hours' community service, a 12-month youth rehabilitation order, a curfew between 7pm and 6am for three months and a ban from social networking sites for 12 months.
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LCJ
post Aug 17 2011, 23:26
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The inconsistencies with these jail sentences amaze me. Of course Cameron supports this hard line stance. And harsh sentencing and taking the few privilidges away from the rioters is really going to help this whole situation too according to the Government. Yet more proof if ever it was needed that this Government don't have a clue what they're doing. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more riots. There often are under right wing Governments. Our country has a history of it.
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DJ Kris
post Aug 18 2011, 2:01
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QUOTE (bobbins @ Aug 18 2011, 0:07) *
Funny you should say that. Someone just got convicted for posting this on facebook:

"I think we should start rioting, it's about time we stopped the authorities pushing us about and ruining this country. It's about time we stood up for ourselves for once. So come on rioters get some. LOL."

They got 120 hours' community service, a 12-month youth rehabilitation order, a curfew between 7pm and 6am for three months and a ban from social networking sites for 12 months.

and was that just a status update? Just my opinion, but that seems clearly intended as a light hearted comment rather than an attempt to actually kick anything off.

QUOTE (LCJ @ Aug 18 2011, 0:26) *
The inconsistencies with these jail sentences amaze me. Of course Cameron supports this hard line stance. And harsh sentencing and taking the few privilidges away from the rioters is really going to help this whole situation too according to the Government. Yet more proof if ever it was needed that this Government don't have a clue what they're doing. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more riots. There often are under right wing Governments. Our country has a history of it.

Would you not say the countries been too soft on crime the past few years?


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Kiffy
post Aug 18 2011, 7:13
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QUOTE (DJ Kris @ Aug 18 2011, 3:01) *
Would you not say the countries been too soft on crime the past few years?


In some cases yes, in some cases too harsh, in most no cases no. You have to remember, reasonable sentencing tends not to make as good a headline as "Murderer gets 6 mths!"
And it has been working, crime has been going down, just reporting of crime's stayed at the same hysterical level (as it sells papers) so people assume it's been getting worse. It hasn't.
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Dead Mike
post Aug 18 2011, 7:13
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Do you think we're soft on crime Kris? Given we've got more people in prison than any other country in Western Europe, the loongest sentences & more CCTV than any country on the planet I'd say we're pretty full on. Unless there's a special breed of British criminal that makes crime here much worse than anywhere else?
I'd say the 'bang em' up' mentality has been proven to fail yet government wont instigate real reform as middle-England is still under the misconception than the current system works, we're just probably not locking them up for long enough or that prisons are like holiday camps, or some other tabloid bollocks.
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Smeg_&_The_Heads
post Aug 18 2011, 8:03
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QUOTE (Dead Mike @ Aug 18 2011, 8:13) *
we're just probably not locking them up for long enough or that prisons are like holiday camps, or some other tabloid bollocks.


TBH my Dad often said that and he's spent more time in prison than a fat man has had hot dinners he said it just wasn't enough of a deterrent.


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Dead Mike
post Aug 18 2011, 8:06
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Dead Mike @ Aug 18 2011, 8:13)
we're just probably not locking them up for long enough or that prisons are like holiday camps, or some other tabloid bollocks.


TBH my Dad often said that and he's spent more time in prison than a fat man has had hot dinners he said it just wasn't enough of a deterrent.


What's his standard of living like outside of nick?
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Smeg_&_The_Heads
post Aug 18 2011, 8:17
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QUOTE (Dead Mike @ Aug 18 2011, 9:06) *
What's his standard of living like outside of nick?


Well this is going back as we haven't spoke for 16 years but at the time it was what the rest of the family had and it was quite good we had our own house (well it was my Granddad's house but we lived in it) at the time enough money to live on.

The reason he kept getting sent down is he is a alcoholic who had a tendency to beat anybody up just for looking at him which I never agreed with I only really witnessed it once as I didn't like to spend time with him (On a side note when I did witness it as nobody else was around I was the one who reported him to the Police as the other guy hadn't done a thing wrong when it went to court I ended up giving evidence he only got 6 months and only served 3 of that)


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aaron
post Aug 18 2011, 8:28
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QUOTE (DJ Kris @ Aug 18 2011, 3:01) *
Just my opinion, but that seems clearly intended as a light hearted comment rather than an attempt to actually kick anything off.


FREEDOM OF SPEECH MOTHERFUCKER!!

And if it was an attempt to kick something off? Fuck... we must like being told what to do and be quiet yeah??

There's a group of people in charge and forever will it remain when meek arseholes pander to them with quiet obedience.
If Hitler rose to power.... nope, don't riot.
If the police start shooting everyone... nope, don't riot.

There must surely be a case for a good riot now and then.

When the dollar collapses, these riots will be nothing. The Army will come and shoot you for robbing food then.

I guess peaceful protest makes some people feel powerful. The blind fuckers who think this shit musty have failed to realise that silent protests have achieved fuck all ever.
You need some poor cunt to set himself on fire these days.

So, when that US Dollar collapses.... you stay indoors and do what you're told. Leave the looting to those with a survival instinct left intact.... or wake the fuck up you poor, poor slaves.

This post has been edited by aaron: Aug 18 2011, 8:30


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Kiffy
post Aug 18 2011, 8:38
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Freedom of speech doesn't cover intent to create criminal activity, and never did.
And these riots, for the most part, really weren't focused at regime change, moving the status quo, anything like that. I'd have thorouhgly approved of them if they were, but they weren't.
You're right about the economic crisis to come though, will be the eurozone that goes first, once that's gone the dollar busting will just be another part of it. And yeah, it will make the last crash look like nothing.
Of course you're right about peaceful protests acheiving fuck all, but looting jd sports acheives less, and creates an enviroment when a proper uprising is harder to acheive.
This is the main problem with this fucking country, the people angry enough and passionate enough to actually kick off are too retarded to understand what they're fighting for, only what they're fighting against. Most depressing.
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Magnum
post Aug 18 2011, 9:04
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QUOTE (Kiffy @ Aug 18 2011, 9:38) *
Freedom of speech doesn't cover intent to create criminal activity, and never did.

And these riots, for the most part, really weren't focused at regime change, moving the status quo, anything like that. I'd have thorouhgly approved of them if they were, but they weren't.

Of course you're right about peaceful protests acheiving fuck all, but looting jd sports acheives less, and creates an enviroment when a proper uprising is harder to acheive.



All of this is bang on.

As far as the harsh sentencing, I remain convinced that a big reason for the actions of many of the participants in these riots was a feeling that they wouldn't be held accountable for those actions - either because their experience of 'punishment' for crimes in the past has amounted to ASBOs and other ineffectual bullshit, or because they feel that the anonymity of the mob or technology means they'll never be caught. Well, now they (and anyone of a similar mind in future) know that there's a good chance they CAN be caught and WILL be punished, and I'm all for that.
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Van Dammer
post Aug 18 2011, 9:11
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QUOTE (Magnum @ Aug 18 2011, 10:04) *
All of this is bang on.

As far as the harsh sentencing, I remain convinced that a big reason for the actions of many of the participants in these riots was a feeling that they wouldn't be held accountable for those actions - either because their experience of 'punishment' for crimes in the past has amounted to ASBOs and other ineffectual bullshit, or because they feel that the anonymity of the mob or technology means they'll never be caught. Well, now they (and anyone of a similar mind in future) know that there's a good chance they CAN be caught and WILL be punished, and I'm all for that.


Correctomondo, it was group mentality. Everyone thought they wouldnt get pulled up for it, 1. because there was so many of them out there doing it and 2. because they didnt expect the uproar and people to help people catch people who were nicking 50 trainers.

Ill admit the 4 years for the Facebook thing seems harsh but I dont know the details, I dont know the extent of what they had written, whether they had threatened violence on Police etc etc. Also, you cannot compare with others that got off with a similar thing because there are differences in ages and also the extent of how far they went with it.
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Smeg_&_The_Heads
post Aug 18 2011, 9:15
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TBH I'm quite surprised just how many people have been caught it's far more than I thought and in such a small amount of time.


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Loki
post Aug 18 2011, 9:21
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And I guess that's the best disincentive of all - seeing how many looters have been apprehended and had the book thrown at them, will discourage similar behaviour in the future. A friend of mine who's a criminal barrister tells me that a significantly high percentage of those charged with the worse crimes already had a criminal record as well.


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