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> MMA: Past Fight Discussion, not another MMA thread!
wandshogun09
post Feb 18 2012, 11:08
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QUOTE (The Natural @ Feb 17 2012, 8:03) *
Ive enjoyed reading your history of Wanderlei Silva. Id like you to do it for another fighter at some point.


Cheers, yeah I was thinking about that but I dunno who to do next. Was thinking maybe Nick Diaz. Problem is not all his fights are out there and easy to find like Wanderlei's. I still might do it though.

I meant to have this Wanderlei stuff done by now. I'm gonna do another Wanderlei post in a bit but I'm going away with the girlfriend on Monday so I'm gonna do the rest when I get back. I'll miss UFC 144 while I'm away aswell, well unless I sneak out to a bar to watch it.


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Ebb
post Feb 18 2012, 11:59
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yeh, great work wand. i enjoyed reading that. i mean to do some little write ups like i did at the beginning of this thread but i just aint got around to it, i will though!


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jimufctna24
post Feb 18 2012, 12:27
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I have stolen this idea from BarbarIAN who has done it with wrestlers. Just see how you feel about some of the biggest names in MMA history, should be fun to see some contrasting opinions.

You don't have to do them all, just follow the template if you want to join in.

Chuck Liddel



Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Wanderlai





Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Shogun



Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Randy Couture




Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Fedor



Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Big Nog



Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Tito Ortiz




Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Ken Shamrock





Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?


Royce Gracie



Did you like him?
Why?
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass?





















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CurryAngel
post Feb 18 2012, 13:51
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Chuck

Did you like him?[b] No.
[b]Why?
Just never took to him. He is a dull guy who was dominant back when the LHW division was stale and he was the only half-decent guy amongst average fighters
Would you have paid your money to see him? Despite that, he was rarely boring so yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass Not a chance.

Wanderlei

Did you like him? Love watching him fight but not personally.
Why? As said, his fights were always violent but he just came across as a complete cunt in Pride and now in the UFC he is playing mr. nice guy.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No.

Shogun

Did you like him? Love the guy.
Why? Seems like a lovely bloke and is also a complete killer. Up until 2011 had the greatest year in MMA history (2005), half of the greatest fight in MMA history (Lil Nog).
Would you have paid your money to see him? Hell yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Yes.

Randy

Did you like him? How can you not?
Why? Just an inspiration. To do what he does at his age and be better than most guys half his age is just phenomenal.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Just so say "I've seen Randy live" but to be honest his fights are normally dull with few exceptions.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No

Fedor inlove.gif

Did you like him? Love him. My all time favorite. inlove.gif
Why? A short, fat, emotionless Russian who is an absolute killer. When he was ruling MMA he was just spectacular. The way he'd dominate Nog on the ground or beat up Cro Cop standing up was shocking. His fights were never dull and the guy is just the greatest MMA fighter of all time (Screw Anderson tongue.gif). Admittedly, his Strikeforce run was a disaster but I attribute that to him just not giving a shit anymore, getting paid a shitload and swinging for the fences. The Fedor who owned Nog (in the 3rd fight) and Cro Cop would never have been tagged by Hendo or Big Foot and he wouldn't have been stupid enough to hang around in Werdums guard. Excuses I know but I'm an admitted Fedor Fanboy smile.gif
Would you have paid your money to see him?
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Greatest in any weight class!

Big Nog

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? Bit like Randy, he's like everyones favorite uncle. May well be the most durable fighter in MMA. Cro Cop, Fedor, Sapp, Sergei, a truck knocked him down but couldn't keep him down. Age and wear and tear have obviously helped him deteriorate but has been involved in some of the most iconic fights in history.
Would you have paid your money to see him? yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Number 2.

Tito

Did you like him? No.
Why? One dimensional, big mouth for someone with such a long losing streak, held the belt when the division was awful and is fucking a woman I've had many wanks over.
Would you have paid your money to see him? No
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? hahaha

Ken Shamrock

Did you like him? Liked him in the WWF.
Why? Liked when he snapped and belly-to-belly suplexed referees and wouldn't release the ankle lock.
Would you have paid your money to see him? no.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Was never over enough for the belt but Bret wanted to drop it to him did he not?

Royce Gracie

Did you like him? He seems like a nice guy.
Why? At the time was a great advert for BJJ and didn't need to talk about a 400-0 record to do it, although his Pride run of only fighting under special rules didn't work out too well for him.
Would you have paid your money to see him? No as he'd be too one dimensional. Same reason I wouldn't pay to watch Demian Maia.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No.
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wandshogun09
post Feb 18 2012, 16:28
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Good idea.

Chuck

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? He was pretty much always exciting to watch. He looked like a bad ass and at his peak he fucking was.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? I don't think so. But he's gotta be up there. The division might not have been as strong as it is now but he still went on a great run and finished all his challengers.

Wanderlei

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? See the last 3 or 4 pages. I think I've made my case. biggrin.gif
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Gotta be honest, no but he's my favourite to watch win or lose.

Shogun

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? He's aggressive like Wand, but he uses technique more, he's a finisher, seems like a good lad and he "talky likey thissy". Seriously, he always gives 100% even in the fights where he looked bad (Forrest 1/Coleman) he was always trying. And he's been in 2 of the best ever MMA fights with Little Nog and Hendo. What's not to like? If you don't like Shogun there's something wrong with you.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Honest opinion again, probably not but he's top 2 or 3 for me. But I don't even know who's number one. This is the question I'm struggling with for everyone cos they've all achieved stuff at their weight but it's tough to say 'best ever'. Especially with how unstoppable Jon Jones is looking at the minute.

Randy

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? Just a likeable chap. I don't agree that he was usually dull. He's had some stinkers sure, the Maurice Smith fight would even put Fitch to sleep tongue.gif but his fights with Big Nog, Rizzo (1st fight), Gonzaga, Barnett and the 3 Liddell fights were all really good. I liked his commentary aswell.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No.

Fedor

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? Similar reasons to Curry Angel. The whole silent killer thing he had going, plus the fact he just looks like an average bloke. Chubby, thin on top, not particulary intimidating to look at but he fucked up everyone put in front of him for 10 years.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Finally I can answer with a Yes. People are quick to knock Fedor now he's lost a few but I've said this before, he is the best heavyweight in MMA history. That doesn't mean I'm saying he would beat Dos Santos, Velasquez, Overeem etc on current form. I'm saying, who has had a better run at the weight and accomplished what he has? No-one.

If he's not the best heavyweight in history then I'd like to hear the argument for who is. He dominated Pride when Pride had the best heavyweight division in the world. People forget this when they say 'he never went to the UFC'. That criticism is fair when he never signed in 2009 but I've heard people say he was always avoiding the UFC. Yeah. Cos I'm sure he was shitting himself of Sylvia, Kimo, Eilers and Wes Sims. He really took the easy route fighting prime Cro Cop, Big Nog and Schilt laugh.gif

Not saying no-one will ever surpass his achievements but as of right now, he's the best heavyweight in the history of MMA.

Big Nog

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? My favourite heavyweight along with Cro Cop and now Dos Santos. Just watch TUF 8, the man is impossible to dislike. And a great fighter, I'd rank him #2 behind Fedor as the best heavyweight.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? He would've been, if it weren't for the chubby Russian above. #2 for me.

Tito

Did you like him? Not really. Not a strong dislike but I wouldn't say I'm a fan, although fair play for what he's done in MMA. He was the star when the UFC was dying, he was part of the reason they survived imo. Especially the Shamrock feud.
Why? Just find him annoying. His massive head, his squeaky voice, his new 'People's champ' shit, the cheesey T-shirts. Oh and of course the excuses. Oh the fucking excuses. Cracked skull, broken back, sore fanny. I'm surprised the man is still alive.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes. Like him or not he's value for money.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No, but again for his run he's an honorable mention. His losses the last 5 or so years have hurt his standing though.

Ken Shamrock

Did you like him? Hmm dunno really. I love his mongy lines like 'beat you into a living death' and 'i'll knock your hair black' and his woeful stint coaching TUF. But strangely I don't really like him if that makes sense. Just find him funny to watch. When he's out of fight mode he seems a good guy in fairness, but he's comical to me when he's trying to row on someone. He's dead serious and thinks he's coming off scary but it's always stupid shit he comes out with.
Why? Never really been a big fan of his fights. There were spells where he looked great, vs Severn fight at UFC 6, vs Kimo at UFC 8 and vs Fujita in Pride (before he went all weird and quit). He always seemed to find a way to lose or kill his own momentum in fights and his career as a whole.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes. There's not many big name fighters I wouldn't pay to see. And Shamrock was a pioneer of MMA.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No way.

Royce Gracie

Did you like him? Yes.
Why? Just seems a laid back cool bloke. I like him more than his actual fights I think. Seems a bit cocky but not in an overbearing way. I did like his fights with Kimo and Keith Hackney actually.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No. But he never really had a weight class. He was a natural welterweight/middleweight but he never really fought consistently at any specific weight division. Either way you can't take away his early UFC performances. People can say, 'well them guys were shit on the floor' all they like but Royce still had balls to get in there with big fuckers Gerard Gordeau, Dan Severn, Kimo etc. A fight's a fight and he still ran the risk of getting knocked out.

This post has been edited by wandshogun09: Feb 18 2012, 16:46


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jimufctna24
post Feb 18 2012, 19:44
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Chuck Liddel

Did you like him? Yes
Why? Because he was one of the fighters that made me grow to love MMA. After Tito Ortiz drew my eyeballs to the UFC it was Liddel who kept the there in 2005. I loved his fighting style and the crowd in America fucking loved him. Liddel was somthing very special in his 2004-2007 prime.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Defo
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? As of right now yes, Jon Jones may surpass him in my eyes if he beats Rashad in April, but Liddel ruled the roost in 2004-2006 beating top flight warriors like Couture, Babulu and Ortiz who at the time were all in their prime. Wins over Wanderlai, Overeem, Horn and Belfort are not to be sniffed out even if they were not at their best when Chuck beat them, and he also beat Kevin Randleman, Guy Metzger and Murilo Mustmante when they were in their primes. That is a very good resume.

Wanderlai

Did you like him? Yes
Why? Because I love his fighting style, his agression and passion is awe-inspiring, he is one scary fucker. In his prime he ruled the roost in Pride, ok so he never faced Lil Nog and Shogun, but he did dominate even with Rampage, Sakuraba, Arona and Henderson knocking about and never lost to anyone medicore for a amazing amount of time, even the Hunt lost was highly disputed.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? He is up there but not quite, he had to many fights that were too easy against Japanese cans. He did beat all the top names at 205lbs put him front of him, but he did stuggle against Arona and was faced Sakuraba too many times, the latter of course was not his fault. Liddel by a hair in my opinion faced tougher oppenents.

Shogun

Did you like him? Yes
Why? Because I love his style of fighting and he comes across as a nice guy.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? He should have been if it was not for injuries, Shogun was a beast in 2005 and has been inconsistent ever since. Apart from Wanderlai he is the best 205lbs Pride ever produced. I am glad he had his moment in the UFC when he beat Machida, but I do not think he will reach those heights again, injuries and bad choices will preevnt him from that. Luckily he did enough in 2005 and 2009-2010 to be remembered as one of the best 205lbs fighters ever.

Randy Couture

Did you like him? Yes
Why? Because he makes for a good story, a old bastard who got better with age and defied the odds to come back and prove people wrong on several occasions. He beat some decent fighters that get forgotten like Rizzo in his prime and Ortiz in his prime, both of those are worthy of a great fighter.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No, but he is one of the best fighters of his generation up there with Liddel, Wandy, Shogun, Hendo and Rampage. He did enough to be better than the Griffins and Franklins of the world

Fedor

Did you like him? Not Really
Why? Because I always preffered other Heavyweights like Big Nog, Barnett and Arlovski. I had no connection to him as great as he was.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Yes he is, he dominated the best heavyweights of his time for such a long period and beat a Prime Big Nog, a Prime Cro Cop and a lot of other decent heavyweights for their time like Herring and Coleman. Fedor was done by 2006 in my opinion, his last great perfromance was when he beat Cro Cop in 2005, yes he did beat Slyvia and Arlovski later on but I think he was on the wane before that and even not at his best he was still a league above them. The first sign was when Mark Hunt gave him problems in 2006, then he faced a bunch of cans for a while before he fell of a cliff in 2010. Still, he did enough to be seen as the best heavyweight ever, his management maybe a bunch of cowboys, but the man himself in his prime was somthing very special.

Big Nog

Did you like him? Yes
Why? Because he comes across as a very nice guy, and is one of the best heavyweights of all time
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No but he is up there, he is having a bit of a indian summer at the moment despite the Mir submission in a fight he should have won if he had continued punching. Knocking of Schaub and besting Randy Couture, have added to the mans legacy late in his career. I am suprised as he looked like garbage in his first 3 fights in the UFC even when he won. In Pride he had that amazing comeback against a Cro Cop who was in his Prime and was the only one who was competative agaisnt Fedor despite clearly losing. His two wars with Josh Barnett I loved as well.

Tito Ortiz

Did you like him? Yes
Why? Because he got me into UFC/MMA. He was the coolest thing ever to me in 2005 when I was a impressionable 17 year old.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No, but he was actually very good for his time from 1999-2006. Yes he was a bit of a diva, but deep down I think he is a very nice guy, Dana and Chuck are very harsh on him at times. He is also one of the biggest draws in UFC history, without Tito, Chuck would have not got as much fire and motivation to become one of the best and biggest start in UFC history.

Ken Shamrock

Did you like him? Fuck No!
Why? Becasue he is a blithering moron. His performance on TUF 3 was a shambles and his recent bitterness towards the UFC is pathetic. He was a big name in the MMA world in the mid nineties and from 2000-2006 but he has ruined his legacy with his stupid comments and deluded attitude. I don't blaim his brother Frank for not having ties to him, the man is a mentalist beating up people in casinos and pushing for steriods to be legal because he uses them and gets caught becasue he is so stupid that he does not cycle them, the man is a dick. The Lions Den is a overated camp as well, Frank did himself well to leave.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Depends, not now or in the past 5 or 6 years though.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No, but in the mid nineties he was up there for the best of his time.

Royce Gracie

Did you like him? Yeah, he is ok
Why? Because he is a very humble guy in interviews and was a legend of the UFC in its inception
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No, he was the best of his time in the UFC though.




This post has been edited by jimufctna24: Feb 18 2012, 19:51


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The Natural
post Feb 19 2012, 12:44
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QUOTE (wandshogun09 @ Feb 18 2012, 11:08) *
QUOTE (The Natural @ Feb 17 2012, 8:03) *
I've enjoyed reading your history of Wanderlei Silva. I'd like you to do it for another fighter at some point.


Cheers, yeah I was thinking about that but I dunno who to do next. Was thinking maybe Nick Diaz. Problem is not all his fights are out there and easy to find like Wanderlei's. I still might do it though.


If you are taking suggestions I'd like to offer Shogun (I don't know where I got the impression you like him wink.gif), Rampage, Big Nog or Fedor.

---
Chuck
Did you like him? Yes apart from beating Randy Couture twice.
Why? The striker who took people out in his prime, the look and the celebration. Shame he went on longer than he should have going out on numerous KO losses.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass Probably.

Wanderlei
Did you like him? Yes.
Why? One of my favourite fights for going all out. Vicious striker, one hell of a force in PRIDE. Comes across as really likeable to me in his interviews.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No.

Shogun
Did you like him? Yes.
Why? Vicious striker who usually finishes a fight when his opponent is hurt.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No.

Randy
Did you like him? Hell yeah! My favourite ever fighter.
Why? A fighter who overcame the age boundary. Dropped two fights as a Heavyweight so went down to the Light Heavyweight division beating Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz in 2003 with ease becoming Interim UFC Light Heavyweight Champion and UFC Light Heavyweight Champion, the first man to win a UFC Championship in two weight classes. Retired and came back fighting Tim Sylvia for the UFC Heavyweight Championship. Couture knocked him on his ass in the first ten seconds of the fight and dominated the fight to take a decision and regain the UFC Heavyweight Championship. Had a great fight with Big Nog, one of the best Legend vs. Legend fights you will ever see.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Certainly.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No but top five in the Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight divisions.

Fedor
Did you like him? For the most part, I wish he went to the UFC like the other big name PRIDE fighters did when the UFC bought PRIDE. Stupid M1 Global.
Why? A chubby emotionless fighter with nasty ground and pound.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Yes.

Big Nog
Did you like him? Yes.
Why? Nice guy out of the cage/ring. Big Nog’s biggest quality during his prime was taking brutal punishment, surviving it and slapping on a submission to win the fight.
Would you have paid your money to see him? Yes.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Number two but I prefer him to Fedor.

Tito
Did you like him? Hell No.
Why? The brashness. One of my least favourite MMA fighters so enjoyed Couture and Ortiz beating on him. Ortiz should have lost the decision against Forrest Griffin in their first fight as well. Excuses.
Would you have paid your money to see him? No
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Nope.

Ken Shamrock
Did you like him? Liked him in the WWF. Used to like him in MMA.
Why? Shamrock should have retired a while ago, so past his peak but can’t call it quits.
Would you have paid your money to see him? No.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? Nope but he was one of the best fighters during his prime.

Royce Gracie
Did you like him? Yes but never liked how he held on submissions in the early UFC’s when the fighter was clearly tapping out. Why? Skill beats size.
Would you have paid your money to see him? No.
Is he the best ever at his Weightclass? No.

This post has been edited by The Natural: Feb 19 2012, 14:35
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ajmcstyles
post Feb 19 2012, 15:12
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Can anyone recommend me some pride events?
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Ebb
post Feb 19 2012, 19:36
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i'd recommend all of Pride except for a couple of the earlier shows, there's good stuff on all of them. Pride Bushido 9 is widely considered the greatest MMA card ever so that might be worth a look. Pride 10 is a bit of a classic too, it by far the best of the older shows, you get to see some legends in their prime on that card.


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ajmcstyles
post Feb 19 2012, 21:26
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QUOTE (Ebb @ Feb 19 2012, 19:36) *
i'd recommend all of Pride except for a couple of the earlier shows, there's good stuff on all of them. Pride Bushido 9 is widely considered the greatest MMA card ever so that might be worth a look. Pride 10 is a bit of a classic too, it by far the best of the older shows, you get to see some legends in their prime on that card.

Thanks just watched Bushido 8

Now 9 then Final Conflict 2005

Talk about dropping the H-Bomb in 22 seconds.

This post has been edited by ajmcstyles: Feb 19 2012, 23:11
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lambyUK
post Feb 22 2012, 14:51
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For anyone interested I found a superb quality video of Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen from UFC 117

http://vimeo.com/30950803

If it asks for a password it's MMA
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The Natural
post Mar 4 2012, 14:56
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Five years ago yesterday, this happened...





One of my favourite ever MMA fights because of the questions leading up to it about Randy Couture (coming out of retirement plus Sylvia was younger and had the height/weight/reach advantage) and how the fight went down.

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wandshogun09
post Mar 5 2012, 6:48
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Yeah that was a great moment. It's weird because aside from the opening 30 seconds, not a lot really happens for the rest of the fight but it's still one that's looked back at fondly.

I think a big part of that is it signified the end Tim Sylvia's reign with the title. Sylvia gets a lot of stick, some of it is deserved and some isn't but there's no denying he did become a boring slob towards the end of his run.

While Pride had Fedor, Big Nog and Cro Cop all in their prime having classics in front of massive crowds in Japan, the UFC had their top heavyweight Tim Sylvia lumbering around with Jeff Monson and Assuerio Silva for what seemed like forever in them days. Even the 3rd Arlovski fight was utter shite. And there weren't really any challengers on the horizon. That's not to say there weren't any good fights back then (Sylvia vs Arlovski 2 was a really exciting crazy 1 round fight) but there wasn't any depth to the weightclass it was always just Sylvia vs Arlovski or one of them defending the belt in a mismatch against unworthy title contenders like Gan McGee and Justin Eilers.

Then as soon as Randy came back, put big Tim on his arse and schooled him for 25 minutes the division seemed to change overnight. It obviously wasn't just because of Randy, it clearly helped the division massively that right around that time Pride went tits up and the UFC signed Cro Cop, Nog, Werdum and Herring aswell. To top it all less than a year later they got Brock Lesnar, Cain Velasquez and Shane Carwin who all turned out to be Heavyweight or Interim title holders and in Brock's case a huge PPV draw.

All that stuff would have happened with or without Randy's win over Sylvia but this



is what kicked off the era of what we have now which has gotta be considered the most stacked heavyweight division in MMA history. The crowd reaction to that punch and in the last seconds of round 5 is still one of the loudest I've ever heard in an MMA fight.


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Ebb
post Mar 27 2012, 12:52
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does anyone know the moment it all started to go wrong or Big Tim? cause although the division was shit, his earliest performances in the UFC were actually pretty good, he wasn't a dull fighter at that time, dude was finishing everyone.


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jimufctna24
post Mar 27 2012, 13:27
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QUOTE (Ebb @ Mar 27 2012, 13:52) *
does anyone know the moment it all started to go wrong or Big Tim? cause although the division was shit, his earliest performances in the UFC were actually pretty good, he wasn't a dull fighter at that time, dude was finishing everyone.

When he got busted for roids.

After that he got armbarred by Mir and looked like shit against Arlovski. Aside from that high kick on Tre Telligman, he has not wowed since. Even when he won people were not impressed like the fights with Arlovski and Vera.


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